Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

KillShot

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

I have a POF and even if someone gave me the money to purchase a KA, I wouldn't buy one. I'm sure you'll find others who feel differently.

The KA is a DI rifle and the POF is a gas piston. The POF will run cooler and cleaner. Both rifles are sub-MOA capable with the right shooter.

Get the POF and don't look back.
 

Kino

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

Never owned a KAC but have shot several for uncle sweet meat. I do own a POF and I am super happy with what I own and sure most folks would be. Both are good guns but my vote is POF.
 

ORD

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

I love my POF P-308 20" SPR and have recommended them several times here and elsewhere to folks who find themselves in the market. Mine has been incredibly reliable and very accurate. I am regularly getting 3/4 MOA or slightly better accuracy with it when using match ammo or my reloads (and of course when I do my part). POF has excellent service as well and has been a long-time supporter of this site, its members, the shooting sports in which we engage...the list goes on and on. You get a great rifle and a great company to back it!

That said, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the KAC offerings (I'd love to have an SR-25 EMC)...EXCEPT for the price tag which is by far the largest in the semi-auto .308/7.62 market segment!!

For the money issue alone, I'd buy the POF and not think twice. You can buy the POF, equip it with multiple mags, rings/optics of high quality (Nightforce or higher) and still come in for less than the price of JUST the SR-25 which, depending on the particular model you are looking at, will set you back roughly $5k.
 

poison123

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

Buy a Gap10.....your still technically getting a POF since the upper/lower is made by them
 

tomahawk84

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

I second the GAP 10 statement, otherwise a stock POF 308 is great for the money. KAC rifles are amazing but I wouldn't carry one unless it was issued to me. they just cost to much for the average joe.
 

KillShot

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

I didn't mention the GAP-10 because the op didn't ask about that particular rifle, not only that but I won't recommend something that I haven't handled or used personally.
 

VJJPunisher

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Selva</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recommendation of the gentlemen I would like shooters.</div></div>

what does this mean?
 

poison123

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't mention the GAP-10 because the op didn't ask about that particular rifle, not only that but I won't recommend something that I haven't handled or used personally. </div></div>

Good thing I've got a GAP10 and had a EMC, OBR, etc......

For 2.6k or 3k(depending on options) it is my opinion that you can't do much or any better than the GAP10. Its a hell of a rifle.
 

teknikallysekure

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Selva</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recommendation of the gentlemen I would like shooters.</div></div>

what does this mean? </div></div>

lol
 

powderBurnz

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Selva</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recommendation of the gentlemen I would like shooters.</div></div>

what does this mean?</div></div>

Irish car bombs are good shooters. Got some wolfbites and zippers the other night and got straight up trashed.
 

problemchild

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

Wonder why POF doesn't make a one piece upper?
 

KevinB-KAC

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wonder why POF doesn't make a one piece upper? </div></div>
LMT's patent app is my guess
 

BCP

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

How are you getting either one down in Brazil? I didn't know that they were exported.
 

Mj30wilson900

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Re: Knights Armament Rifles or Patriot Ordnance Facto

How are you getting either one down in Brazil? I didn't know that they were exported.
To each his own I have owned both and both will run. The reason I chose to sell my pof to get all Kac rifles are weight. They both have innovative proprietary features but with the POF heat sink barrel nut it makes the guns heavy. I am not running anything full auto so I don’t need the barrel nut but do appreciate the innovation. POF piston again I am not Dumping a lot of rounds down range at one time and di offers weight savings and some will say more accuracy. Also I chose knights due to resale value. Knights will hold their value more than POF so far. Also since the owner of POF just passed we do not know what will become of the company and its future. Knights is already set up with the next generation in line. Knights and lmt are battle proven and if the pof guns were so much better a military force would step up to purchase them and thus far has not.
I will repeat I loved my p415 and p308 but I love my Kac guns more due to how light they are. You start adding a pec 15 and a scope and night vision and a light on a p415 and you are carrying a log around. Kac cuts a couple pounds off the p415 right out the gate. Kac parts are built and tested to run to higher round counts and with decades of military feedback I felt it was the right choice for me. If I had to talk down to POF it would be weight and I really didn’t care for the np3 coating on the bolt. It seemed to wear off faster than a standard bolt.
both are decent choices for civilian shooting.
 

Mj30wilson900

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so nearly 10 years late,.....but since you dug this up....

My 308 POF piston Revolution is about 7 1/2lbs.
Yea the revolution series is closer to the sr-25 but all in all the knights is lighter. I had a p308 and it was much heavier. I made the decision that fit me. I carry my guns more for hunting and shooting so weight is important to me.
 

Ape_Factory

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Zombie apocalypse! A decade later, the POF Revolution DI is significantly lighter than the KA25 in a similar spec by about 2 pounds. The finned barrel nut definitely isn't where a majority of the weight is (no matter what the gun) as it's such a small component. I'm sure they're both exceptional rifles and we're fortunate to be able to (theoretically) purchase either. My Revolution DI with a 3-18 scope comes in at the same weight as an SR25 PC. Naked, the Revolution is 6.8 pounds. And beyond that is the Rogue which is a five pound 308. Wouldn't recommend the Rogue based on what I've seen as the fit/finish and function is not close to the Revolution DI. But it's also at a much lower price point.
 

Ape_Factory

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Their Revolution DI is exceptional IMO. Only one I have personal experience with although I read a lot of good things about the Renegade+ and a few other models, mixed reviews on the Rogue and not so good reviews on the Rebel22. I have to force myself to put the Revolution down and shoot something else. Plus, these days, it's like a buck a round, or more, every time you hurl a bullet down range.

What was your personal experience with them that makes you feel that way and how long ago was it? Or did you just read it on the internet?
 

Marcus85

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Never owned one, just remember all the horror stories from others, the lawsuit and all that shit.
 

Mj30wilson900

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Never owned one, just remember all the horror stories from others, the lawsuit and all that shit.
Lawsuit aside pof makes really nice guns and I am not saying otherwise just my preference was the knights. I felt the pof lower being billet was a little sharp and I like the ambi mag release on the knights better also. I can grab the mag and thumb the mag release and rip it out.
 

Rudy Gonsior

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I had a POF circa 2013 (16" .308) that I won at a match. I liked a lot of things about, light weight, great lines, but it just wouldn't shoot. I probably put close to 1000 rounds through it and it exhibited horrible vertical stringing at about 1x4-6 MOA groups. I had several other sniper instructors shoot the rifle all with the same results. I called Frank several times and while he did his best that gun just wouldn't shoot.

I ended up parting the the POF out, only thing I still have is the lower thats sitting in the back of safe, right where I left it 6 years ago. My KAC rifles(s) on the other hand get taken out weekly. Like I said I wanted my POF to run but it didn't, the KAC on the other hand has yet to give me any issues.
 
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Mj30wilson900

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I had a POF circa 2013 (16" .308) that I won at a match. I liked a lot of things about, light weight, great lines, but it just wouldn't shoot. I probably put close to 1000 rounds through it and it exhibited horrible vertical stringing at about 1x4-6 MOA groups. I had several other sniper instructors shoot the rifle all with the same results. I called Frank several times and while he did his best that gun just wouldn't shoot.

I ended up parting the the POF out, only thing I still have is the lower thats sitting in the back of safe, right where I left it 6 years ago. My KAC rifles(s) on the other hand get taken out weekly. Like I said I wanted my POF to run but it didn't, the KAC on the other hand has yet to give me any issues.
Mine was the same way and I chalked mine up to piston gun and battle rifle accuracy. I used it more for shorter range classes. The features of the rifle sound nice but execution wasn’t the best. Reminds me of a Taurus 1911. If you just buy it because of all the features it comes with it will not match a plain les Baer custom.
 

Ape_Factory

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Mine definitely shoots even with the cheap stuff. When my AR15 was mil-spec, they were almost identical in weight and it was almost borderline disturbing in the best way possible when switching between the two. I literally laugh out loud. Plus Keith Garcia rocks a Revolution DI in three gun and cleans up with it. I really like the Gen4 lower too, not sure how it compares to the older stuff.
 

craigos

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    completely two different tiers -- KAC is well known for producing the best in the industry and focuses on the military , POF is serving the civy market. Ferrari versus Toyota. Reflected in its price as well.
     
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    Ape_Factory

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    I have a few thousand rounds through my POF Revolution DI at this point and literally not one single failure to load and fire. It's eaten everything from 147gr to 180gr with no adjustments and just runs like a tank.

    None of the components in a KAC are physically more expensive to make so you're paying for the name. Hell, they probably make KAC parts in higher numbers so there's even a cost efficiency advantage there.

    And Ferrari vs Toyota is a really bad analogy. Lemme know how many Ferrari's you see running around after 200K miles on their original everything.

    I'll just leave you with this.
     

    GUNNER10

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    ka or pof? which would you buy or recommend?
    Recommendation of the gentlemen I would like shooters.
    Are you looking at a 556 or 308/6.5?

    While I never messed around with a POF there Revolution DI line up looks pretty interesting. Coming in almost 1 pound lighter than my ACC is pretty cool, especially if one is looking for a rifle that may be hiked or hunted with. As there is no free lunch, I wondering how shootable it would be for say an afternoon of blasting but none the less, I would consider one.

    Some people mentioned reliability issues, being that its 2020, I would think that most of these issues have been figured out and if one gun does have any issue, it should not be to difficult to address. I am not sure how POF customer service is though

    If you are talking about a 556 upper, I see no reason to go POF over KAC.
     
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    Ape_Factory

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    The Revolution DI is where it's at for POF. I'd like to see POF do a lightweight 556 but they don't currently offer that. I'm developing 308 and 223 loads right now and it's surprising how similar the POF is to a hot 223 load with a heavy bullet. While I've lightened my AR15 substantially, initially it was almost identical in weight to the POF which is pretty amazing. If you look at the KAC 16" SR25 PC, it's nine pounds. That's a POF Revolution DI with a 1-8 scope and a loaded 20 round magazine. Food for thought.
     
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