Knights M-110 Build Question

[Wayfaerer320]

I saw that there are some matching SR-25 stripped uppers and lowers for sale (KNIGHTS ARMAMENT SR-25 Matched Upper & Lower NEW! : AR15 Parts at GunBroker.com)

Assuming you had these two parts in your posession (the stripped upper and lower), what specific other parts would you need to complete a clone of an M-110?

More importantly, where do you find these parts?

 

[scatsob]

Most of the other parts are available from KAC like the rail, buttstock, lower parts, flash hider. The difficult parts are going to be a barrel and, BCG, and the gas block. Lawmens in FL can help with most of it. There is a BCG on gunbroker right now too but the guy wants $800 for it.

 

[Wayfaerer320]

Most of the other parts are available from KAC like the rail, buttstock, lower parts, flash hider. The difficult parts are going to be a barrel and, BCG, and the gas block. Lawmens in FL can help with most of it. There is a BCG on gunbroker right now too but the guy wants $800 for it.

$800? Jesus.

Maybe I'd just be better off buying an ArmaLite AR-10 and dressing it up like a KAC M-110.

Are there any other (cheaper) BCGs that are compatible/reliable with the SR-25?

 

[scatsob]

I think DPMS and CMMG BCG's will work but I am not certain. After I recover from my M40A3 build I am going to do an M110K1 clone off of a CMMG Mk3 CBR. All it needs is the rail and flash hider and it's ready to go.

 

[LRRPF52]

I think you need the KAC bolt catch, and everything else is common. Someone who has tried to use another bolt catch might comment, but I know KAC's bolt catch is different on the outside at least.

I've been looking at those receiver sets for a few months now.

It also depends on what M110 you want to build. I want this one:

 

[Wayfaerer320]

I think DPMS and CMMG BCG's will work but I am not certain. After I recover from my M40A3 build I am going to do an M110K1 clone off of a CMMG Mk3 CBR. All it needs is the rail and flash hider and it's ready to go.

Interesting - I hadn't thought of that.

Is the KAC SR-25 rail compatible with the CMMG receiver?

 

[scatsob]

It sure will . And for the "correct" flash hider you just need the regular one not the MAMS which is like $400. All the 16" uppers being used here at MARSOC use the regular QD hider.

Interesting - I hadn't thought of that.

Is the KAC SR-25 rail compatible with the CMMG receiver?

 

[Wayfaerer320]

It sure will . And for the "correct" flash hider you just need the regular one not the MAMS which is like $400. All the 16" uppers being used here at MARSOC use the regular QD hider.

That looks great - do you have a full length shot of it?

 

[scatsob]

Unfortunately no, those pictures were taken by a guy that was selling a URX 3.1 and a CMMG mk3 stripped upper and I asked him to verify that they would fit.

 

[KULT]

I can help. I built one

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=836951

 

[KULT]

The matched sets are the older non ambi units.

I think you need the KAC bolt catch, and everything else is common. Someone who has tried to use another bolt catch might comment, but I know KAC's bolt catch is different on the outside at least.

I've been looking at those receiver sets for a few months now.

It also depends on what M110 you want to build. I want this one:

 

[KULT]

The barrel is the easiest part to get. Bat machine extension and Obermeyer M110 barrel, all you need is the correct chamber reamer and it will be the same exact spec sent off the Navy and Army. Bolt carrier , any Armalite, KAC, JP , LMT carrier and bolt will work. Gen 1 LMT and KAC are the same , Gen 2 LMT uses an updated Bolt with dual ejectors and better extractor.

KAC does not sell the gas blocks or bcg or barrels. Also make sure they still make / sell the bolt catch.. If they don't all you have to do is radius the edge of the lower and you can use an Armalite A model or any DPMS 308 bolt catch. You could also ask LMT if they would sell you one.

Most of the other parts are available from KAC like the rail, buttstock, lower parts, flash hider. The difficult parts are going to be a barrel and, BCG, and the gas block. Lawmens in FL can help with most of it. There is a BCG on gunbroker right now too but the guy wants $800 for it.

 

[scatsob]

So the pictures are wrong?? Do you have experience? The handguard will thread on the upper and the barrel nut threads into the handguard to there is no reason it should not work.

CMMG uppers will not fit

 

[KULT]

I meant the CMMG upper will not fit on the kac lower. I misread your post. My apologies. The CMMG in your picture will work it's the high rail height, all you have to do is add a retainer clip to the ejection port door hing pin. On a KAC upper the URX will lock in the hing pin. Also the KAC flash hider uses a 3/4"-24 thread, most .308 rifles are 5/8"-24 thread.

So the pictures are wrong?? Do you have experience? The handguard will thread on the upper and the barrel nut threads into the handguard to there is no reason it should not work.

 

[scatsob]

Thanks for the info on the hinge pin, I was curious how KAC did that on their uppers. On the flash hider, they offer it in 5/8x24 as well for use on other guns.

I meant the CMMG upper will not fit on the kac lower. I misread your post. My apologies. The CMMG in your picture will work it's the high rail height, all you have to do is add a retainer clip to the ejection port door hing pin. On a KAC upper the URX will lock in the hing pin. Also the KAC flash hider uses a 3/4"-24 thread, most .308 rifles are 5/8"-24 thread.

 

[KULT]

I don't think they offer the M110 style A2 flash hider in the 5/8. I know they offer some of other ones in the regular 5/8. The QDS and Mams .

Here is a picture I found of how the KAC upper looks, I didn't want to dig mine out of the safe.

Photo by Kevin Boland

KAC-KNIGHT'S ARMAMENT M110 FLASH SUPPRESSOR

Thanks for the info on the hinge pin, I was curious how KAC did that on their uppers. On the flash hider, they offer it in 5/8x24 as well for use on other guns.

 

[scatsob]

Yeah, I was not sure about the A2 hider but the 16" K2 uppers being fielded by the marines have the QDS flash hiders which are relatively inexpensive and readily available.

KAC-Knight's Armament 7.62mm QDS Flash Suppressor Kit Threaded 5/8-24

I mentioned the CMMG CBR because everything is there to do a good looking clone of the 110K1. It has a rifle length gas system on a 16" barrel, the URX3.1 will fit the upper, and they make the QDS flash hider in 5/8-24. Then all that's left is cerakote in taupe and get tan furniture . This should all be able to be accomplished for well south of $2500.

 

[KULT]

Can't wait to see yours when it is done.
I am going to build a K upper for other SR-25 lower. Going to use a re-profiled MWS 20inch CL barrel for it. just need to get another stripped upper and LMT MWS BCG

Yeah, I was not sure about the A2 hider but the 16" K2 uppers being fielded by the marines have the QDS flash hiders which are relatively inexpensive and readily available.

KAC-Knight's Armament 7.62mm QDS Flash Suppressor Kit Threaded 5/8-24

I mentioned the CMMG CBR because everything is there to do a good looking clone of the 110K1. It has a rifle length gas system on a 16" barrel, the URX3.1 will fit the upper, and they make the QDS flash hider in 5/8-24. Then all that's left is cerakote in taupe and get tan furniture . This should all be able to be accomplished for well south of $2500.

 

[Wayfaerer320]

Yeah, I was not sure about the A2 hider but the 16" K2 uppers being fielded by the marines have the QDS flash hiders which are relatively inexpensive and readily available.

KAC-Knight's Armament 7.62mm QDS Flash Suppressor Kit Threaded 5/8-24

I mentioned the CMMG CBR because everything is there to do a good looking clone of the 110K1. It has a rifle length gas system on a 16" barrel, the URX3.1 will fit the upper, and they make the QDS flash hider in 5/8-24. Then all that's left is cerakote in taupe and get tan furniture . This should all be able to be accomplished for well south of $2500.

This actually sounds like the best option - at least the most affordable - to take a complete CMMG MK3 CBR and make it look as close as possible to the M-110K.

It's a shame that KAC wants an arm and a leg for pretty much any of their shit.

 

[KULT]

There is a cheaper way to build one. PM me if you are interested.

This actually sounds like the best option - at least the most affordable - to take a complete CMMG MK3 CBR and make it look as close as possible to the M-110K.

It's a shame that KAC wants an arm and a leg for pretty much any of their shit.

 

[scatsob]

Do tell .

There is a cheaper way to build one. PM me if you are interested.

 

[sr15match]

My thing when looking at building a clone or replica of the M110 is if the receivers are in hand the rest is pretty simple with the exception of the original M110 butt stock. I bought one of the first available to the public several years ago and had it on my SR15 Match. It was a spendy purchase but I liked it and it functioned as it should. Besides the cost, putting your hands on one seems to be a trick. Everything else is out there, Krieger makes M110 barrels, the rails are out there, flash hiders, scope mounts, BUIS, ect. Maybe a correct gas block / attachment point for the suppressor would be a bit of a trick to get too, maybe not.

I'd love to put together a fairly correct'ish or quality likeness of an M110 but I have enough projects right now.

 

[KULT]

The barrel you are talking about is legal for NRA High Power 3.1.6 Service Rifle - U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm M-110 Series competition , its not the same profile as the SR-25 or M110 barrels. I know KAC uses their own chamber also . As for the uppers those are going to be easier to get shortly several companies are starting to make compatible units. Easiest way to get most of what you need to build one is to by a MWS and sell the upper with no BCG if you are looking to make one for lots of heavy duty shooting. KAC and LMT share the same lower forging , LPK and the bolt carrier.

My thing when looking at building a clone or replica of the M110 is if the receivers are in hand the rest is pretty simple with the exception of the original M110 butt stock. I bought one of the first available to the public several years ago and had it on my SR15 Match. It was a spendy purchase but I liked it and it functioned as it should. Besides the cost, putting your hands on one seems to be a trick. Everything else is out there, Krieger makes M110 barrels, the rails are out there, flash hiders, scope mounts, BUIS, ect. Maybe a correct gas block / attachment point for the suppressor would be a bit of a trick to get too, maybe not.

I'd love to put together a fairly correct'ish or quality likeness of an M110 but I have enough projects right now.

 

[scatsob]

KULT - Where did you get that LMT receiver set? My googlefoo must be weak, I couldn't find mention of any LMT 308 receiver parts for sale anywhere.

 

[KULT]

I bought the complete gun for 2250 new and sold the upper with out the BCG. I ended up with a complete lower and bolt carrier for about 800-900. I had another KAC BCG that I sold to another member for 650 , which is what I had paid for it. Your googlefoo is not weak at all. If you look around there are LMT lower halves floating around. People get uppers for KAC guns and sell off the lower.

KULT - Where did you get that LMT receiver set? My googlefoo must be weak, I couldn't find mention of any LMT 308 receiver parts for sale anywhere.

 

[scatsob]

10-4, thanks for the clarification. I didn't read your parts list on calguns close enough and thought the upper was KAC as well, so I was looking for a non-monolithic LMT upper. Hmmmmm...wonder if I can do a K1 clone, with dimpled barrel and all, for under $3k?

I bought the complete gun for 2250 new and sold the upper with out the BCG. I ended up with a complete lower and bolt carrier for about 800-900. I had another KAC BCG that I sold to another member for 650 , which is what I had paid for it. Your googlefoo is not weak at all. If you look around there are LMT lower halves floating around. People get uppers for KAC guns and sell off the lower.

 

[MSTN]

Lilja has some outstanding 18" and 20" replacement barrels in stock for the SR-25 & AR-10:

Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels

 

[KULT]

3k yeah its doable . The upper on my gun is a KAC . As for the barrel, I built mine with an Obermeyer barrel and got the correct chamber reamer and I got it dimpled to save a bit of weight (not 100% correct for an M110).

10-4, thanks for the clarification. I didn't read your parts list on calguns close enough and thought the upper was KAC as well, so I was looking for a non-monolithic LMT upper. Hmmmmm...wonder if I can do a K1 clone, with dimpled barrel and all, for under $3k?

 

[scatsob]

Yeah, I was running some numbers and to build a 110K1 clone bit by bit it would quickly approach the .mil price of an SR-25 EC. That's what makes the CMMG an attractive clone prospect because it only needs a few things done and parts off the rifle would sell and offset a good bit of the cost of the kac parts needed.

 

[GhostFace]

Does the cmmg have ambi controls or is the only option a LMT or KAC lower?

 

[scatsob]

The CMMG lower is not ambi but I believe you could come close with aftermarket parts if you desired.

 

[KULT]

I think the going rate for an SR-25 EC is like 4400-4800. I can't buy one even if I wanted to in CA due to stupid laws about what model rifle you can and can't own.

Yeah, I was running some numbers and to build a 110K1 clone bit by bit it would quickly approach the .mil price of an SR-25 EC. That's what makes the CMMG an attractive clone prospect because it only needs a few things done and parts off the rifle would sell and offset a good bit of the cost of the kac parts needed.

 

[scatsob]

Good old California and it's crazy bypassable "laws". When I was going to UC Berkeley I got my C&R FFL and had rifles shipped to my door to be rebelious. UPS even left one one my porch over a weekend while I was away because Sarco didn't ship it signature required.

I think the going rate for an SR-25 EC is like 4400-4800. I can't buy one even if I wanted to in CA due to stupid laws about what model rifle you can and can't own.

 

[Wayfaerer320]

Yeah, I was running some numbers and to build a 110K1 clone bit by bit it would quickly approach the .mil price of an SR-25 EC. That's what makes the CMMG an attractive clone prospect because it only needs a few things done and parts off the rifle would sell and offset a good bit of the cost of the kac parts needed.

After installing the SR-25 URX on the CMMG MK3 CBR and updating the flash hider to a KAC, what other differences would remain between the CMMG and the KAC?

Visually, would there be any major difference?

 

[scatsob]

Visually there would not be much, especially after cerakoating everything taupe and getting FDE magpul furniture. The lower is billet and not a forging so that will look a little different. The upper has very similar lines. It also won't be ambidextrous but not much you can do about that. I think it would look pretty good and plan on doing one when I finish up some current builds.

After installing the SR-25 URX on the CMMG MK3 CBR and updating the flash hider to a KAC, what other differences would remain between the CMMG and the KAC?

Visually, would there be any major difference?

 

[longshot2000]

Would still love to see the pics of the CMMG and KAC match

 

[TheGerman]

Wow necro thread.

But from my understanding, you can clone the M110 with the correct parts, but the real trick is finding an actual M110 marked lower.

 

[FatBoy]

Would still love to see the pics of the CMMG and KAC match

Me too. Right now I'm looking at the Spikes Livewire matched set. I have no reason to build another AR, not to mention a large frame, but I'm sick and can't help myself. Problem is, even after this is built I will still want a M25. To me, even though these occupy the same niche they are exclusive.

I would probably be better served with a mk12 replica in 6mmAR shooting 95gr SMKs but as awesome as that would be it still leaves an itch.

 

[Downtown]

Are these old threads still the result of the move back? They were common for a while there, but it had seemed to kind of fade away.

 

[longshot2000]

Wow necro thread.

But from my understanding, you can clone the M110 with the correct parts, but the real trick is finding an actual M110 marked lower.

Well, yes and no. The people I know who are making M110 clones are actually filling-in the SR25, and re-engraving M110. You generally start with a "skeleton," or an SR25 as a starting point, rip it apart and keep the upper and lower, and maybe a few other things, depending upon which model you buy. I am making an M110, and the hardest part is the barrel. I am actually having some barrels made, starting with Obermeyer blanks. Very slow, methodical process. There are a couple of guys making and selling them on Gunbroker. Cost is around $7k before the optic and mount.

Always love to see what others are doing with non-KAC uppers and lowers. As mentioned earlier in this thread, most of the LMT .308 is interchangeable, but it gets tricky with the bolt, unless you headspace the LMT bolt to the barrel, or at least that is my take.

 

[FatBoy]

Are these old threads still the result of the move back? They were common for a while there, but it had seemed to kind of fade away.

Maybe. Or renewed interest. As parts become unavailable, these threads will get recycled to see how guys work around making other stuff "work".

edit. I like clone building but I draw a line as spending $2000 extra on a receiver set because it says KAC on the side. It comes down to how close you want to get. My mk12 mod0 doesn't have a Colt or FN lower, a WOA barrel and has an SSA-E trigger but I consider it a good representation of the rifle, and refer to it as a clone as if it was sitting next to a SF team rifle you'd not be able to distinguish the difference unless you really started scrutinizing. Some would call it just another AR. As long as we use threads like this to build quality rifles, 100% legit or not, I like reading/re-reading them.

 

[FatBoy]

Well, yes and no. The people I know who are making M110 clones are actually filling-in the SR25, and re-engraving M110. You generally start with a "skeleton," or an SR25 as a starting point, rip it apart and keep the upper and lower, and maybe a few other things, depending upon which model you buy....

I wonder how much risk guys are taking going this route? It seems they stand a chance of destroying the lower, depending on how they are filling in the engraving. Do you have any more detail on how they are filling in the engraving and keeping it hard enough to engrave over top it?

 

[longshot2000]

I wonder how much risk guys are taking going this route? It seems they stand a chance of destroying the lower, depending on how they are filling in the engraving. Do you have any more detail on how they are filling in the engraving and keeping it hard enough to engrave over top it?

I do know how they do it, and it is nothing that is harmful to the lower. And, as all the ATF required information is on the left side, they are not interfering with the legalities needed by the manufacturer.

You might know that a number of people are doing similar markings on lowers that are "minimalist" in their ATF markings, and thus leaving large areas for engravings. Some use the 80% lowers, and then put Colt and KAC markings on the firearm. I am not willing to go that route, as it just seems wrong. Not sure about illegal, but you may also recall that a very popular anondizing company got "visted" by the ATF around a year ago, and confiscated a number of these lowers that were created by individuals, and sent for anondizing. The issue there was that the gunsmith is required to log-in and out the serial numbers of lowers when worked on, and some either had no serial number, or had a number that could not be traced back to manufacturing.

 

[longshot2000]

Lilja has some outstanding 18" and 20" replacement barrels in stock for the SR-25 & AR-10:

Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels

@MTSN - I think this must have changed, and I realize your post is 4 years old. I talked to Carlson about 6 months back, and he was not making contours for which he did not stock, or that is what I understood. He advised that he has a set of countours, and was really not making one-off's. Love his barrels, and have one on my Mk13 Mod7.

I decided to make some Mk11 and M110 barrels. I hope to announce the first batch in the next month. This started as a personal need for my rifles and I decided to make a handful for others. It has been a very long road, and we are in the test cycle now, to test the measurements and tollerances, especially at the breach and the muzzle, the latter for suppressor fit.

At the end of the day, the SR25 is a very complicated piece of machinery. As the M110, it has served the military well, and it will be interesting to see exactly what the final specs are on the HK CSASS, now known as the XM110A1.

 

[Strykervet]

WTF? People are no shit MILLING OUT a KAC lower to change the goddamn designation? That's just fucking crazy. I have a military account with KAC and buy from them direct; I had the option of getting my rifle with "SR25" on it or "M110". For $10k difference, I went with the SR25. It's the same rifle.

No, you can't copy one of these, or rather it's not worth it. The new rifle is cheaper than building one. KAC uses almost exclusive parts up to and including the gas block and lower parts for the ambi lowers. The new tubes can't use a pinned gas block FWIW, it has a threaded nut that locks it on, not unless you cut out some of the keymod, etc. The factory trigger is the shit, it's one rifle I didn't have to do a damn thing to when I got it.

Oh yeah, bolt and carrier are different too. Bolt only fits KAC barrels, even the reaction rod is different. For the 15's and 10's. Action is slick as shit.

Now I did get some KAC 15 lowers and those are different too --they use shorter takedown pins and some "milspec" uppers have a larger than acceptable gap in the rear. They work fine with LMT shit like M4 uppers though. The new ones are supposed to use normal pins but use the proprietary trigger guard (which costs more than a Magpul but can still be opened).

I heard KAC is starting to sell lowers because they lost so much with the military contracts and are focusing more on civilian products for the first time. They still have their premier name going and they are going to capitalize on that. Still, I remember the days when SR25's were CIA or super secret squirrel shit and that was what you WANTED your lower to say but nobody I knew then was cutting out Armalite lowers to say "SR25" either. This is a new breed of fucking stupid.

The HK CSASS is a bad bitch, but the M110 is still my baby. FWIW, if you want the "better" HK, you want the European version --it has a SS upper and I forget what they make the lower out of but it's not normal aluminum IIRC and it comes in that funky yellow. The army went with a aluminum upper, I do know that. What happened to FN's offering?

Oh, I have been waiting for my goddamn can for a full YEAR now.