I am considering the KRG Bravo chassis for a Howa 6.5 x 47 setup. However, I notice on many photos of the Bravo the stock and fore-end have poor alignment. See below. This is seen on both sides. I know the Bravo is inexpensive, but still. Has anyone else seen this, is it fixable, or...? It is the kind of thing that would bug me, but then I am picky. I am considering the MDT Tactical HS3, which I know is a step up in cost, but I would hope, superior in quality. - Phil
- Thread starter Phil3
- Start date
Move on and buy something else. These are tools to use, not toys to look at.
I understand where you're coming from as I had the same concern when ordering sight unseen for my Vudoo. After a few thousand rounds I've been very satisfied with the Bravo , especially for the price.
When you clamp down the last screw behind the heel of the receiver that’s where you will get the pictured misalignment. It’s a function of the design like it or not.
It's a $350 chassis. For the money it is a great option but you get what you pay for.
It certainly doesn't hinder the operation at all. Might look a little funny, but for the money you really can't go wrong.
I am the OP..thanks for the responses. I am just a casual shooter off a bench with a Harris bipod and light bag. I do not compete, but like a nice rifle with ample ergonomic adjustments. The KRG Bravo is a good value, but then with current sale, so is MDT. Not having seen either of the two in person, which do you think represents a best value.
KRG Bravo (Howa) in FDE - $439
KRG Butt Hook Cover - $9
KRG Shipping - $25
Magpul AICS style Mags (10 round), 2 each - $76
TOTAL = $549
vs
MDT Tactical HS3 Chassis (Howa) in FDE - $449.99
Magpul PRS Gen 3 (FDE) - $199.99
MDT Buffer Tube - $35.99
MDT Polymer Mags (10 round), 2 each - $39.98
MDT Grip - $19.99
MDT Shipping - $0
TOTAL = 745.94
If I use the MDT Skeleton Stock v5, then the $745.94 becomes $779.95 (sale prices).
Thanks for comments.
Phil
KRG Bravo (Howa) in FDE - $439
KRG Butt Hook Cover - $9
KRG Shipping - $25
Magpul AICS style Mags (10 round), 2 each - $76
TOTAL = $549
vs
MDT Tactical HS3 Chassis (Howa) in FDE - $449.99
Magpul PRS Gen 3 (FDE) - $199.99
MDT Buffer Tube - $35.99
MDT Polymer Mags (10 round), 2 each - $39.98
MDT Grip - $19.99
MDT Shipping - $0
TOTAL = 745.94
If I use the MDT Skeleton Stock v5, then the $745.94 becomes $779.95 (sale prices).
Thanks for comments.
Phil
The MDT polymer magazines only hold 8 rounds.
I would buy a KRG Bravo but I'm interested only in function, not looks.
I enjoy a good looking rifle, but I don't nitpick tiny details like panel lines that don't line up. If you but the Bravo and give it a camo paint job, it'll break the lines up and you won't even notice. 
As 308Pirate said though, I'm far more interested in how well the chassis works for me than how it looks. Good looks are just a nice bonus.
As 308Pirate said though, I'm far more interested in how well the chassis works for me than how it looks. Good looks are just a nice bonus.
If I wanted a pretty rifle I'd buy a Model 70 Sporter or Featherweight.
I probably will.
I probably will.
Brownells has a chassis made by MDT for 399 right now (LSS-XL). The MBA-1 in pink (krylon is your friend here) for 50 or 60 if you want the black cheek and butt They have buffer tubes as well for 20ish dollars. MDT has metal mags 10 and 12 rounds for half price if you hurry. Your still under the bravo as you listed it add a Viking tactical sling and your good to go
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...-1500-brn-1-precision-chassis-prod116296.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...-1500-brn-1-precision-chassis-prod116296.aspx
https://mdttac.com/collections/polymer-metal-magazines
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...-1500-brn-1-precision-chassis-prod116296.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...-1500-brn-1-precision-chassis-prod116296.aspx
https://mdttac.com/collections/polymer-metal-magazines
Thanks, I did not know that. I did not much like that the MDT chassis with Howa action will only accept MDT polymer mags. As far as I know, the KRG Bravo with a Howa action will take AICS mags.
The fit here is a far cry from that of the Bravo pictured in my original post. Thanks for the photo though, as your setup would be exactly as I had envisioned. I wondered about a polished barrel on the Bravo, as well as the fit of the barrel nut. I cannot tell from the photo, but is your action a Howa, or...? Thanks. Phil
Yes it’s a Howa. To use the Bighorn nut it has to be relieved, not sure about the other nut NSS offers. The channel dimensions are listed on the KRG website.
Cav, could you tell me what Arca rail you are using on your Bravo?
It’s from Sawtooth Rifles. It’s really slick. Here’s a link http://www.sawtoothrifles.com/store/p30/Sawtooth_Rifles_Forend_Rail:__KRG_Bravo.html
Do you mean you had to cut away some of the chassis to fit around the nut? How did the Howa action fit? May I ask what barrel and caliber you are using? I am planning on a 6.5 x 47 Lapua.
Dang that's a nice rail. Too bad I already have the KRG one.
Yes a small part of the backbone had to be milled. KRG lists a dimension of 1.25” for 4 inches in front of the action. The Bighorn nut measures 1.3 something so it had to be relieved. James from Northland has a different barrel nut which can also be used but I do not know what the OD on that is. KRG lists all the dimensions of the barrel channel on the Bravo web page. The Howa action with factory barrel is a drop in. My barrel is a Criterion 6mm Creedmoor match medium Palma 26” long. I think I might try a heavy Palma on the next barrel. I ran a 6.5x47 Criterion a couple years ago it was a laser I still use it for local matches.
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Not only that, Howa actions do not need to have any machining done to the rear of the mag well opening to use any AICS mag in any KRG chassis.
If you’re already looking at $750 for the MDT, IMO you’d be crazy not to just spend a little more and get a MPA or something.
MDT’s aren’t junk, but after handling that one no way would I pay $750 for it. You’re in the territory of much higher quality chassis that don’t use AR15 buttstocks that give ridiculous minimum LOP’s at that price. Long story short, MDT’s are budget chassis as are the KRG bravo and X-ray, and $750 is getting into premium territory.
MDT’s aren’t junk, but after handling that one no way would I pay $750 for it. You’re in the territory of much higher quality chassis that don’t use AR15 buttstocks that give ridiculous minimum LOP’s at that price. Long story short, MDT’s are budget chassis as are the KRG bravo and X-ray, and $750 is getting into premium territory.
You'd have a fit if you saw my Bravo. I dremeled off some of the back part of the forend skin to I could back it up and have a nice tight magazine fit that doesn't bind the bolt if its resting on the mag. There's a fair gap and its not completely flat.
Its just a skin to keep your hand from freezing/frying when you grab it
Its just a skin to keep your hand from freezing/frying when you grab it
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I will never fault a guy for wanting their rifle to look good! At the end of the day we do this for fun. Very few people on here are actually using bolt guns as "tools". Only hunters, Mil/Leo and proffesional competitors can really claim to be using these in any serious application. For the rest of us, and at the risk of rustling some tactical feathers, these are in fact man toys, not even to be used for home defense. So if having a slick looking gun makes it more fun for ya, slick it up!
As long as you dont give up any functionality or features that you want. In this case, both chassis function great, in my experience, the Bravo is more comfortable and offers more upgradability in the future. The misaligned stock/forend is there but honestly it doesn't bother me too much since that's kinda how it's supposed to be. If it wasnt supposed to be that way then itd drive me up a wall lol. And while I wish it lined up perfectly, it is only a $350 chassis and for what you get, that's pretty darn amazing. My vote is to the Bravo. Ive had good experiences with both companies, but if I were to get an MDT chassis, I prefer their higher end stuff like the ESS and ACC as opposed to the LSS and HS3. While the Bravo really takes the cake in the lower price range.
Best of luck!
PS: FWIW, i'd pick the Bravo even if they were both the same price! Ymmv
As long as you dont give up any functionality or features that you want. In this case, both chassis function great, in my experience, the Bravo is more comfortable and offers more upgradability in the future. The misaligned stock/forend is there but honestly it doesn't bother me too much since that's kinda how it's supposed to be. If it wasnt supposed to be that way then itd drive me up a wall lol. And while I wish it lined up perfectly, it is only a $350 chassis and for what you get, that's pretty darn amazing. My vote is to the Bravo. Ive had good experiences with both companies, but if I were to get an MDT chassis, I prefer their higher end stuff like the ESS and ACC as opposed to the LSS and HS3. While the Bravo really takes the cake in the lower price range.
Best of luck!
PS: FWIW, i'd pick the Bravo even if they were both the same price! Ymmv
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Almost every MDT chassis can take the MDT buttstocks which are a far cry for AR stocks.
Nothing "budget" about them.
Thanks for your comment. I simply like quality, well-built products, a by-product of my desire for perfection, which I know can be expensive. The Bravo in my opinion, is a good value. The price goes to $439 with a Howa action, and Sako green is not available for the Howa, but still, I think it a good piece. I have to decide what quality/price strata I want to be in. Going MDT as I configured it, means about a $231 price bump over the Bravo, and that is the MDT sale. Without the MDT sale, the gap grows to $371.
It is hard for me to believe the misaligned stock/fore-end is supposed to be that way. I've looked at plenty of photos of the Bravo, with actions installed, and some are quite misaligned while others are very close to perfect. Either manufacturing is inconsistent or the fit is sensitive to installation process. I don't know.
Overall, especially for the Howa, there is little else to be had for the price of the Bravo. The only other option is the Bell & Carlson Tactical Style 6, and then you have to add bottom metal. I have Howa polymer bottom metal and a mag, which is cheap, but still, the cost now is close to as much as the Bravo, and I don't have adjustable LOP on the B&C.
The Bravo does offer some advantages over the MDT (for me).
- Bravo can use AICS mags. MDT can only use MDT polymer mags.
- As a poster noted above, the MDT polymer mags hold 8 rounds. There is no 5 or 10 round option.
- I do not need fancy (costly) continuously adjustable LOP. The Bravo spacers work fine, as I am the only one shooting the rifle.
- I prefer a quickly removable cheek piece if the bolt interferes vs a screw wheel.
Phil
It is hard for me to believe the misaligned stock/fore-end is supposed to be that way. I've looked at plenty of photos of the Bravo, with actions installed, and some are quite misaligned while others are very close to perfect. Either manufacturing is inconsistent or the fit is sensitive to installation process. I don't know.
Overall, especially for the Howa, there is little else to be had for the price of the Bravo. The only other option is the Bell & Carlson Tactical Style 6, and then you have to add bottom metal. I have Howa polymer bottom metal and a mag, which is cheap, but still, the cost now is close to as much as the Bravo, and I don't have adjustable LOP on the B&C.
The Bravo does offer some advantages over the MDT (for me).
- Bravo can use AICS mags. MDT can only use MDT polymer mags.
- As a poster noted above, the MDT polymer mags hold 8 rounds. There is no 5 or 10 round option.
- I do not need fancy (costly) continuously adjustable LOP. The Bravo spacers work fine, as I am the only one shooting the rifle.
- I prefer a quickly removable cheek piece if the bolt interferes vs a screw wheel.
Phil
Fair enough! Sounds like you've given it a thorough think-through. Luckily, either one will be just as accurate as the other. Just a matter of preference at this stage of the game!
You could try contacting KRG and asking about the forend/stock fit to see what effects the misalignment and see if there is a way to minimize it. Theyve been helpfull on the phone for me in the past.
Best of luck!
You could try contacting KRG and asking about the forend/stock fit to see what effects the misalignment and see if there is a way to minimize it. Theyve been helpfull on the phone for me in the past.
Best of luck!
Agreed. The newest MDT buttstocks are as good as anything on the market, and they really take something like the LSS-XL gen 2 or HST chassis to the next level. When compared to something like a Magpul PRS the MDT stock wins hands down.
Mdt mags are aics patern mags. You are not stuck with mdt mags any other should work
Please do a little research before posting misinformation. From the MDT website:
“Howa 1500 / Weatherby Vanguard actions
Only our polymer magazines will work in the short action rifles due to the flat bottom. The long action rifles will work with the metal 3.715" magazines without fitting.
For .223 models the bolt stop prevents the bolt from moving back far enough to pick up the rounds. This can easily be modified by removing the bolt stop and trimming the contact face.”
“Howa 1500 / Weatherby Vanguard actions
Only our polymer magazines will work in the short action rifles due to the flat bottom. The long action rifles will work with the metal 3.715" magazines without fitting.
For .223 models the bolt stop prevents the bolt from moving back far enough to pick up the rounds. This can easily be modified by removing the bolt stop and trimming the contact face.”
I did not know that about howa and mdt.
Now all my interest in that combo is lost
Now all my interest in that combo is lost
It’s a deal breaker for me too which is a shame I really like the MDT metal mags.
https://rifleshooter.com/2017/06/howa-1500-with-mdt-ess-chassis-system-in-6-5-creedmoor/
This guy makes it sound like modifying Howa MDT chassis for non-MDT mags is pretty straightforward. Anyone here ever try it?
I am the OP. Just thought I would say I have ordered the KRG Bravo in FDE for a Howa action. I quite like the blend of chassis and conventional stock design. I did ask KRG about the fit of the panels. They e-mailed me back and said,
There is some misalignment do to the tolerance allowances in the molded parts. Some of the extreme cases are due to improper installation. Either way, these do not effect the function of the chassis.
Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, but it looks like the panels are screwed to the aluminum backbone. If mine is misaligned and it bugs me enough, I may see what I can do about it.
I have other questions on best to build out this rifle, but will put that in another post.
Thank you for your comments.
Phil
There is some misalignment do to the tolerance allowances in the molded parts. Some of the extreme cases are due to improper installation. Either way, these do not effect the function of the chassis.
Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, but it looks like the panels are screwed to the aluminum backbone. If mine is misaligned and it bugs me enough, I may see what I can do about it.
I have other questions on best to build out this rifle, but will put that in another post.
Thank you for your comments.
Phil
My does not align either. At first it kinda bothered me, only because I knew it would not align before I bought it. However, now I do not even notice it. And even better, from behind the rifle shooting you will NEVER notice it.
I get what you are saying. Like a nice car that has some poor fitting body panel which you never see while driving it. On the other hand, you DO have to walk to the car, and you DO see it. Frankly, I am rather surprised and disappointed with KRG's answer. Especially since it seems most (but not all), are misaligned due to the front part of the stock piece angled slightly down (see my pic at top of this thread). See posts #3 and #13 for images of how it varies.
I do not have my Bravo yet, but does the stock piece attach with two screws? In the cases of the rear stock piece being angled, I wonder if flashing, or something else is causing this?
Maybe I won't notice it either after a while, but if I find the cause and/or remedy, I will share it here.
Phil
I do not have my Bravo yet, but does the stock piece attach with two screws? In the cases of the rear stock piece being angled, I wonder if flashing, or something else is causing this?
Maybe I won't notice it either after a while, but if I find the cause and/or remedy, I will share it here.
Phil
If you look on their web site you will see that the fore end attaches to the back bone with 8 screws.
The issue is the "tabs" around the mag well not lining up perfectly which you know. It would be an easy fix if they were typically high, but they are typically low. This means that you would need to offset the front attachments to try to make it align. I fiddled with with mine some but gave up and just forgot about it. For the money there is nothing better on the market. Yes, if i spent $1200+ for a new Manners PRS1T i would expect a prefect custom fit. But I did not. You could always try to switch out the fore end for a whiskey metal one!
I will say this for KRG. You know what you are getting when you buy it. Even their "glamour" shots show this issue. see below:
You will love it. Remember this is the cheapest option on the market that works well with all the necessary features. There are others that are 3-4 times the cost.
I know that the Bravo for $439 (Howa premium), is a good value, not withstanding the panel fit. I was looking at MDT, and with a sale, they were only about $200 more to get me in the same place as the Bravo equipment. But, I did not like some things, so here I am with the Bravo, and for less money.
I do not have my Bravo yet, so do not know about the tabs around the mag well or how it all fits together. I gather from what you say there are locating tabs either on the fore-end and/or the aluminum backbone. I can't find it now, but came across a couple of photo swhere the fore-end seemed well aligned, but the stock end was angled downwards toward the front pretty badly.
Thanks.
Phil
I do not have my Bravo yet, so do not know about the tabs around the mag well or how it all fits together. I gather from what you say there are locating tabs either on the fore-end and/or the aluminum backbone. I can't find it now, but came across a couple of photo swhere the fore-end seemed well aligned, but the stock end was angled downwards toward the front pretty badly.
Thanks.
Phil
I still have no idea what people are complaining about with the lines not matching up. So theres an 1/8" difference, just dont screw the last 2 screws down all the way tight.
I am the OP. I see people unhappy with a barrel not centered in a barrel channel (even when not touching the stock), to a degree that is less than the polymer panel misalignment seen in some Bravos. I do not think that simply not tightening some screws to make the stock parts fit properly is an approach I would use and surely something KRG would not endorse (and has not when I talked to them).
I dont care how much it costs, the alignment should be correct.
Deal breaker for me.
So you go buy a toyota corolla and the dealer tells you the panel lines are not lined up due to it being a economy car, it will work just fine.
Really.
Deal breaker for me.
So you go buy a toyota corolla and the dealer tells you the panel lines are not lined up due to it being a economy car, it will work just fine.
Really.
I have to agree with whatsupdoc. After seeing my Bravo in person, I am not sure yet what my next steps are. Return, attempt to improve, or use as is.
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I can see why some folks get a little bent with the Bravo's they don't line up perfectly, they might have to do a little adjustment to the magwell to drop free and some peoples rigs are their ego personified. When I unpacked my Bravo I was a little unhappy with the miss alignment of front and rear, but at the end of the day my rig is a tool meant to used, so who cares ago a little cosmetic stuff.
So, you're comparing a $350 chassis to a $20k+ automobile? Seems reasonable..
You're probably not going to be happy with a Manners either, mold lines..
M6z, with all respect, your argument is non-sensical. The point being made is that both the Corolla and the Bravo are at the lower end of their market's respective price ranges. Gun stocks and automobiles are in entirely different price ranges. The point is that even an inexpensive car (for the car market) has pretty good panel alignment, while this inexpensive gun stock (for the gun stock market) does not.
I cannot speak to a Manners' mold lines...I have never seen one. But, I do have a $271 Bell & Carlson Medalist stock and a $350 H-S Precision PSV-106 stock (same one as on Savage Long Range Precision Varminter). The Medalist was finished just fine, but the fit to the Howa action was a complete disaster. The H-S Precision barrel channel was slightly misaligned, but H - S suggested I send it to them for inspection, which it passed. They even sent me photos of my stock with their test equipment to show it was ok. They also noticed a tiny defect in the stock, far less noticeable than the KRG misalignment. I had noticed it before, but it was so minor, I never mentioned it. They told me they would fix the tiny void and repainted the entire stock. It was returned and it is perfect in every way. Still slightly crooked barrel, but am looking at the barreled action now, or will just bed in the aluminum block, something I planned anyway.
I wish I could check out these stocks more carefully in person, but around where I live (San Francisco Bay Area), such opportunities are scarce to say the least.
I cannot speak to a Manners' mold lines...I have never seen one. But, I do have a $271 Bell & Carlson Medalist stock and a $350 H-S Precision PSV-106 stock (same one as on Savage Long Range Precision Varminter). The Medalist was finished just fine, but the fit to the Howa action was a complete disaster. The H-S Precision barrel channel was slightly misaligned, but H - S suggested I send it to them for inspection, which it passed. They even sent me photos of my stock with their test equipment to show it was ok. They also noticed a tiny defect in the stock, far less noticeable than the KRG misalignment. I had noticed it before, but it was so minor, I never mentioned it. They told me they would fix the tiny void and repainted the entire stock. It was returned and it is perfect in every way. Still slightly crooked barrel, but am looking at the barreled action now, or will just bed in the aluminum block, something I planned anyway.
I wish I could check out these stocks more carefully in person, but around where I live (San Francisco Bay Area), such opportunities are scarce to say the least.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bingo.
Bingo.
If the forend alignment bothers you enough to outweigh the other features of the Bravo you should probably move on to another product.
My two Bravos, and every other example I've seen, have a slight misalignment between the grip section of the stock and the forend. Despite this, I find the chassis to fit my needs perfectly and to be an excellent value for the price.
The Bravo is not a stock like the HS Precision & Bell & Carlson examples you referenced above, it's a chassis that uses the same aluminum backbone, trigger guard, magazine well, etc. as the X-ray & Whiskey 3 chassis. It requires no inletting, no additional purchase of a bottom metal, and no bedding, while also allowing the use of many KRG specific and M-lok accesories. Something that can't really be said for any traditional stock in the same price point other than the Magpul Hunter. There are also additional forends available for purchase, as well as the Whiskey 3 buttstock if you decide to upgrade the chassis at a later date.
To me all of the benefits easily outweigh a comparably small cosmetic issue.
Again, if it bothers you that much buy something else. No need to beat a dead horse.
My two Bravos, and every other example I've seen, have a slight misalignment between the grip section of the stock and the forend. Despite this, I find the chassis to fit my needs perfectly and to be an excellent value for the price.
The Bravo is not a stock like the HS Precision & Bell & Carlson examples you referenced above, it's a chassis that uses the same aluminum backbone, trigger guard, magazine well, etc. as the X-ray & Whiskey 3 chassis. It requires no inletting, no additional purchase of a bottom metal, and no bedding, while also allowing the use of many KRG specific and M-lok accesories. Something that can't really be said for any traditional stock in the same price point other than the Magpul Hunter. There are also additional forends available for purchase, as well as the Whiskey 3 buttstock if you decide to upgrade the chassis at a later date.
To me all of the benefits easily outweigh a comparably small cosmetic issue.
Again, if it bothers you that much buy something else. No need to beat a dead horse.
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