I have 128 pieces of this brass. I just prepped and weighed it. The weight is very consistent -- about 90% is plus or minus 1 grain. Primer pockets are tight. It seems a little softer than LC LR. I was going to load it up and shoot it. Anyone know any history on it? Why was it made? Anything?
- Thread starter bax
- Start date
It's just brass used in loading their match grade stuff. No crimped in primer pockets, IIRC and no primer sealer and no sealed bullets. I think original 308 loadings use the 172-173gr FMJ/BT, before yielding to the M-852 stuff using the 168gr SMK. I don't know if M-118LR is used in matches these days?
I have some small lots that I've been loading for years and it's decent enough stuff if you don't pay Lapua prices for it.
Chris
I have some small lots that I've been loading for years and it's decent enough stuff if you don't pay Lapua prices for it.
Chris
I got some (supposedly once-fired) LC Match brass years ago when I got my M1A to shoot in NRA High Power matches. I think mine was dated in the early to mid-70s. The ex-Army armorer who built my rifle and sold me the brass said I could reload it twice for match purposes, and one reload after that for practice ammo, but that after 3 reloads I should discard it. Supposedly the extraction and other stresses imposed by the autoloader was hard enough on the brass, especially the rims, that it might become unreliable after a total of 4 times through the gun, so the safe course was just to discard it.
As Chris noted, mine did not have a primer pocket crimp, and there was no evidence of primer or bullet sealer. I made some very accurate loads with 168g Match Kings in that brass. I shoot a 223 bolt gun now, but if I ever go back to shooting 308 it will be with a bolt gun (with a scope - can't see the M1A sights clearly any more) and I'll use what i've got left of that brass. And I won't pay attention to the 3-reloads-and-it's-gone rule.
As Chris noted, mine did not have a primer pocket crimp, and there was no evidence of primer or bullet sealer. I made some very accurate loads with 168g Match Kings in that brass. I shoot a 223 bolt gun now, but if I ever go back to shooting 308 it will be with a bolt gun (with a scope - can't see the M1A sights clearly any more) and I'll use what i've got left of that brass. And I won't pay attention to the 3-reloads-and-it's-gone rule.
bax,
yes, it's good brass, especially for loading a Service Rifle. The original Match loadings do indeed use the asphaltum sealant in the neck, and the primers are uncrimped (one of the reasons the stuff is so popular for handloaders.) You don't mention if this is 30/06 or 7.62, but if I recall correctly, LCAAP would have been loading both the M72 and the M118 loads at these time frames. Both were loaded with the same 173 FMJBT bullet, 2,550 FPS for the 7.62 and 2,640 FPS for the 30/06, both @ 78'. Both were good performers (ballistically, anyway) at 1,000 yards.
wrangler5, you should pay attention to the armorer's advice, he was giving you good info there. Three reloads on an M14, and toss them. M1s are very hard on brass, and M14s are even harder. Don't want to push this one, or they bite.
yes, it's good brass, especially for loading a Service Rifle. The original Match loadings do indeed use the asphaltum sealant in the neck, and the primers are uncrimped (one of the reasons the stuff is so popular for handloaders.) You don't mention if this is 30/06 or 7.62, but if I recall correctly, LCAAP would have been loading both the M72 and the M118 loads at these time frames. Both were loaded with the same 173 FMJBT bullet, 2,550 FPS for the 7.62 and 2,640 FPS for the 30/06, both @ 78'. Both were good performers (ballistically, anyway) at 1,000 yards.
wrangler5, you should pay attention to the armorer's advice, he was giving you good info there. Three reloads on an M14, and toss them. M1s are very hard on brass, and M14s are even harder. Don't want to push this one, or they bite.
I did follow that advice with the brass I shot through the M1A. I still have several hundred original (once-fired) cases left, though, and if I ever do go back to 308 it will be with a bolt gun. My impression is that the "wear" that brass experiences in a gas gun is mostly on the rim due to the violence of the extraction cycle, which was designed to make absolutely sure that an empty case gets yanked out of the chamber so a fresh round can be stripped in immediately, and to some lesser extent to the full length resizing before each reload (I used the suggested small base dies, which worked the brass even more.)
I would think that a bolt gun does NOT impose such stresses, though, and that I could reload LC Match brass for a bolt gun without worrying about a 3-times limit. Especially if I usually do neck sizing only, and even more especially if I anneal the necks occasionally - just keep an eye open for the usual markers of brass failure. Is there anything about LC Match brass, or 308 brass in general, that would make such a workflow risky when loading for a single bolt gun - if I ever get there?
If you get the timing right on your M1a, the cases will last longer, of course it also helps if you don't try to get .300 WM velocities.
For a bolt rifle LC cases are good strong cases in my opinion, just need a little more prep and sorting, that's all.
I don't see anything wrong with your thinking.
For a bolt rifle LC cases are good strong cases in my opinion, just need a little more prep and sorting, that's all.
I don't see anything wrong with your thinking.
Wrangler5,
got it, and no, no problem at all in a bolt gun. LC is generally pretty good stuff, especially in the Match configurations. Keep the loads to a reasonable level, don't push the shoulders back more than a thou or two at each resizing, and you should have no problems in getting ten or more firings out of these. The three and toss recommendation is specific to the M14s, regardless of brass, and was not aimed at the LC brass itself.
got it, and no, no problem at all in a bolt gun. LC is generally pretty good stuff, especially in the Match configurations. Keep the loads to a reasonable level, don't push the shoulders back more than a thou or two at each resizing, and you should have no problems in getting ten or more firings out of these. The three and toss recommendation is specific to the M14s, regardless of brass, and was not aimed at the LC brass itself.
Thanks, that's what I figured. I'm guessing that the mil-spec writers wouldn't care if EVERY case got a bent rim during ejection, as long as EVERY case ejected properly.
For the 223 rounds I'm now loading for F Class matches I use a Forster shoulder bump die with neck bushings, and shoulders pushed back just enough to keep bolt closing easy. I expect I'd use one of those dies in 308 if I ever find I "need" to step back up to heavier bullets (and didn't want to have to search out 6.5 Swede components.) I'm old enough to be recoil sensitive, so loads tend to be as low as will get the job done, and I'm starting to anneal my cases which should extend their life even further.
So I think I'll hang onto that LC Match brass - just in case.
Thank you gentlemen, that information is helpful. I will load them just like my LR brass and see what happens.
Wrangler5
Absolutely right, and a lot of people just don't get that; Lake City (and any other military case) wasn't made to be reloaded. The fact that it can, and most of it is pretty good brass, is nothing more than a happy coincidence. But it certainly wasn't in the designers criteria when the drew up the components. Absolute reliability, durability and functionality for that one, single firing was all that mattered. Ditto for the weapons design themselves. I'll guarantee you neither John Garand nor Gene Stoner lost a minute's sleep over whether their guns were "hard on brass" or not. Again, simply not in their parameters, and something they couldn't have cared less about.
By the way, where are you in MO? I'm in Sedalia.
Absolutely right, and a lot of people just don't get that; Lake City (and any other military case) wasn't made to be reloaded. The fact that it can, and most of it is pretty good brass, is nothing more than a happy coincidence. But it certainly wasn't in the designers criteria when the drew up the components. Absolute reliability, durability and functionality for that one, single firing was all that mattered. Ditto for the weapons design themselves. I'll guarantee you neither John Garand nor Gene Stoner lost a minute's sleep over whether their guns were "hard on brass" or not. Again, simply not in their parameters, and something they couldn't have cared less about.
By the way, where are you in MO? I'm in Sedalia.
I'm in St. Louis. I learned to shoot 600 yards with that M1A up at Marshall, when they had the only long range in the state, but now I can shoot at Benchrest (where we even have a target camera, for when you don't have a good enough friend who's willing to work the pit for you.) I did get to Sedalia earlier this year for a wedding, and managed to talk my wife into stopping at Sierra to pick up some seconds on 69g Match Kings. If I'd known you guys were there too I'd have checked to see if you had any seconds on 69g Scenars. ;-)
Bucksnort is my "home" range, and I've been shooting there for over 20 years now. Got the State Mid Range Championships coming up in October, and a Service Rifle Match the weekend after next. The place is still going strong, and turning out a good match. I shot the very first HP Across the Course match at BR, when they first put in the firing lines. Muddy mess that one was, and I was cleaning dried mud outta my gear for MONTHS after that one. Lot better these days, and the pits are still some of the better ones out there. I'll actually be at SLBRC tomorrow and Friday for part of the ARA/PSL shoot there this weekend. Not shooting this one, but I'll be there with the Lapua Team, flying the flag. Stop on by if you get a chance!
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