Gunsmithing Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

[762frmafr]

What say you oh guru's of the barrel nut? Is it all gimmick like I've been hearing? Or is there some validity to a Large Shank action with high pressure rounds? Lets hear it. I will be back to stir the pot every so often. Mind you this is for my education and curiosity only.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

I've built three rifles on Savages that I fully blueprinted the action like a rem 700 , dialed in on the bolt raceway and recut the threads , I opened them up to the large shank dimensions , I tried the bolt heads front , back and face so they are all square

I also threaded them with a shoulder (like remmy) to do away with the nut

all rifles shot as good as any rem 700 I've ever seen

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've built three rifles on Savages that I fully blueprinted the action like a rem 700 , dialed in on the bolt raceway and recut the threads , I opened them up to the large shank dimensions , I tried the bolt heads front , back and face so they are all square</div></div>

How'd you hold the bolt head while truing it?


We don't true Savage bolts because of the bolt head design.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

A good number of folks have built 338 Edges on standard/small shank long actions, I haven't read of anything getting blowed up real good yet.

Also, the very first WSMs Savage made were on standard/small shank shot actions before they switched them to large shank actions.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How'd you hold the bolt head while truing it?
We don't true Savage bolts because of the bolt head design. </div></div>

I use a piece of old barrel shank , drilled an tapped a 10-32 hole thought he side about 1/2" back from the face , bore it (barrel bore) out so that the bolt head shank will just barely fit in their even a little tapping with a plastic hammer would be fine.
Cut a light taper on the barrel shank (so you will be able to get a parting tool behind the bolt head), push the shank back so that you leave about 1/8" stickin out and snug down the set screw. The bolt head is now running true to the bolt race way well the hole in the bolt anyway
I used a parting tool to cut the back of the bolt lugs rather than grind a tool to fit , i just clocked the tool post a little so i was only cutting with right hand corner of the blade , put a little magic marker on the back of the lugs and take light passes till their cleaned up then do the front lugs and bolt face just like you do a remington.

I thought about it for a while and honestly think that a collet would work the same because the cuts are all made with the head in the same position so that will all be true to one another , but i use the barrel shank cause i have terrible OCD and know that collets have some run out and if the gun dident shoot i'd be bat shit crazy thinking that was the cause
NOTE: the bolt heads and pretty damn hard!! harder than any other i've ever cut

One of the guys i built was a "338 WSM" when Nosler made the 180g Balistic tips for 338 as a light weight compact deer and hog gun for a guy , we were able to get 3000+fps out of a 20" barrel so i know the pressure were pretty damn high as it flattened primers on new brass with the first loading , the guy currently shoots 200g Accubonds at 2900+fps and have never had any issues , we measured the action with a mic before and afer about 400 rounds with zero increase in OD

 

[762frmafr]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

What does everyone think Savage's reasoning is behind making the new 338LM actions as well as the Target actions and WSM actions Large Shank?

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

When you made the cuts, did it seem as though the face and rear of lugs were pretty parallel/true to one another already?
I figured they would be. And with the floating bolt head design saw no benefit to messing with it.

Thanks for the info. Hadn't heard of anyone truing a Savage bolt head yet! Do you see any reason to do it again?(true the head)


Howd the receiver lugs and face seem? If you already had a large shank, would you open it up even further? There's not a ton of meat left there to begin with..


Im building a 338LM right now on a Savage that I didn't true. Tenon is 1.115x20(edited)
Doesnt leave a ton of shoulder but it leaves enough. Lug fits snug around the tenon and the action screws on with NO slop. Its tighter than I make Remingtons. I'll post more pics in our pics/reviews thread once it's done.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

338LM...

 

[762frmafr]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im building a 338LM right now on a Savage that I didn't true. Tenon is 1.15x20
Doesnt leave a ton of shoulder but it leaves enough. I'll post pics in our pics/reviews thread. </div></div>

That gun started life as a 338LM and you are just re-barreling it? Or was it a Large Shank Long action?

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

Just rebarrel. It already was a 338LM.

That lil black fluted stick laying next to it was the factory 338LM tube.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

And why did you decide to go without the nut?

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

Customer wanted it barreled like a Remy.
Im not sure Id agree to barrel a Savage with the nut. People would be taking it apart just so they could headspace it themselves and chit.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Customer wanted it barreled like a Remy.
Im not sure Id agree to barrel a Savage with the nut. People would be taking it apart just so they could headspace it themselves and chit. </div></div>

From a business standpoint I can see your point. But from a mechanical/gunsmith point do you feel that the floating bolt head and barrel nut go hand in hand?

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Large Shank vs. Small Shank Savage actions

Whoops I meant 1.115"
Not much shoulder I know. Next time I might use a 1.350" cylinder barrel and turn it down to 1.315"

This one(above) was left at 1.240"


EDITED....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> from a mechanical/gunsmith point do you feel that the floating bolt head and barrel nut go hand in hand? </div></div>

Im not sure, but no not really.
I can see how the barrel nut <span style="font-weight: bold">isn't</span> as straight as a shoulder cut between centers sandwiching a precision ground recoil lug. So maybe the floating bolt head is trying to help make up for a barrel/chamber that might not be as straight as possible. But I think the lugs would get pushed back against the receiver abutments and the face would be muscled where the lugs wanted it to go. So I don't see how the floating bolt head makes up for much except a crooked raceway.
With the floating bolt head design, the raceway can be a little crooked from everything in front of and including the lugs. As long as the lugs and face are good(true), the raceway could be a little off and it wouldn't matter. I don't know how much though.