LaRue kits

tna9001

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Hey guys,

I'm wondering what the consensus is on the LaRue Ultimate upper kits. Looks like I could do one in 6.5CM for around $1500. Their complete rifles are $3K+ so it looks like a killer deal. How do these compare to GAP or JP?

Thank you!
 

bigjake83

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    Lets just say, the OBR and tOBR as complete rifles don't come close to GAP10 or JP LRP07, so these half assed upper's aren't worth a shit IMO ..

    I had the 6.5G Upper kit and it was mediocre at best, about 1.5 MOA in stock configuration. I Sold the LaRue Barrel and bolt and I'm waiting for my Les Baer medium weight LBC .264 barrel.

    I have already seen people who have done the same with the LaRue Kits using Custom Bartlein Barrels from various Smiths, with great success.

    ​​​​​​As far as the LaRue Ultimate Upper kits Value, for the raw parts alone it's worth it. If you Really want one I would buy it, sell the Barrel and bolt to some LT Fanboy, and have a Custom Bartlein or Krieger Spun up.
     
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    excess

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    I have an Ultimate Upper kit rifle in 6.5 Grendel and with factory ammo it has been under a half MOA at 100 yards from the start. I also have a UU kit rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. It shot about 1 MOA at 100 with factory ammo the one time I’ve had it out. I imagine it will tighten up with some more shooting and maybe handloads. For the money I’m quite pleased with both. I wanted a 223 rifle to shoot in the tac lite PRS Gas Gun matches and bought a JP there, as I had more confidence it would be a guaranteed shooter, but it cost nearly double what the Larue kits cost.
     

    ballisticdaddy

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    Lets just say, the OBR and tOBR as complete rifles don't come close to GAP10 or JP LRP07, so these half assed upper's aren't worth a shit IMO .

    Agreed! I started with a Larue upper and was not happy with the fit, finish nor performance. Jake hit the nail on the head with either the LRP07 or GAP10 if you want it shoot worth a damn.

     

    jaycoux

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    I've not seen any decent info on the larue 6.5 creedmoor yet, but I bought one of the Larue complete rifle 6.5G and built one of the ultimate upper 6.5G for a friend. Both perform exceptionally well with Hornady factory 123 grain ELD ammo. The range reports for the 6.5 CM seem sparse, so I think it would be premature to call something a piece of shit.

    With regard to the JP, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy one of those if you have the extra cash laying around. Their work is very nice and they are always pushing the envelope for greater performance.
     
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    BCP

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    It's a budget rifle that says Larue on it. I'd buy one in 16" 308 if my states laws weren't so shitty. But no it is not a GAP or a JP.
     

    MSTN

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    I've had a fair amount of exposure to complete LaRue rifles (not kits) that I've owned, personally. In order:

    Costa 5.56
    .308 OBR
    .308 P'tAR
    .308 P'tOBR (2)
    5.56 P'tOBR
    .260 P'tOBR
    .308 P'tAR Heavy
    6.5 Grendel

    This is I think a large enough sampling to reach a valid conclusion regarding the performance of LaRue rifles. In fact, they've all performed quite well for me. (My all-time favorite and TOP performer is the 18" .260 Rem P'tOBR, BTW.)

    The kits are composed of the same components as used in the complete P'tAR rifles, it appears to me. Why wouldn't a properly assembled "kit" rifle shoot as well as a factory-assembled LaRue rifle?

    And why do the LaRue kits sell so well?

    I've got my first LaRue "kit" rifle on order, a 6.5 Grendel SUURG kit. I guess I'll get to find out, first hand.
     
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    tna9001

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    I've had a fair amount of exposure to complete LaRue rifles (not kits) that I've owned, personally. In order:

    Costa 5.56
    .308 OBR
    .308 P'tAR
    .308 P'tOBR (2)
    5.56 P'tOBR
    .260 P'tOBR
    .308 P'tAR Heavy
    6.5 Grendel

    This is I think a large enough sampling to reach a valid conclusion regarding the performance of LaRue rifles. In fact, they've all performed quite well for me. (My all-time favorite and TOP performer is the 18" .260 Rem P'tOBR, BTW.)

    The kits are composed of the same components as used in the complete P'tAR rifles, it appears to me. Why wouldn't a properly assembled "kit" rifle shoot as well as a factory-assembled LaRue rifle?

    And why do the LaRue kits sell so well?

    I've got my first LaRue "kit" rifle on order, a 6.5 Grendel SUURG kit. I guess I'll get to find out, first hand.

    What wouldyou say is the average accuracy of those rifles?
     

    BCP

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  • Dec 4, 2008
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    I've had a fair amount of exposure to complete LaRue rifles (not kits) that I've owned, personally. In order:

    Costa 5.56
    .308 OBR
    .308 P'tAR
    .308 P'tOBR (2)
    5.56 P'tOBR
    .260 P'tOBR
    .308 P'tAR Heavy
    6.5 Grendel

    This is I think a large enough sampling to reach a valid conclusion regarding the performance of LaRue rifles. In fact, they've all performed quite well for me. (My all-time favorite and TOP performer is the 18" .260 Rem P'tOBR, BTW.)

    The kits are composed of the same components as used in the complete P'tAR rifles, it appears to me. Why wouldn't a properly assembled "kit" rifle shoot as well as a factory-assembled LaRue rifle?

    And why do the LaRue kits sell so well?

    I've got my first LaRue "kit" rifle on order, a 6.5 Grendel SUURG kit. I guess I'll get to find out, first hand.

    They look like a good deal to me, I just need a thordsen stock or whatever because California sucks which pisses me off.
     

    MSTN

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    What wouldyou say is the average accuracy of those rifles?

    Keep in mind that I'm frankly not all that good. In no way, shape, form, or fashion am I any sort of competitive shooter. I'm a 69 year old 40% disabled vet and wear trifocals. A better shooter could provide better performance with gear of this quality.

    I've had good success with the LaRue rifles. Shooting match grade commercial ammo, all the rifles fitted with high powered optics are comfortably sub-MOA at 100 yards.

    The Costa 5.56 is equipped with an Aimpoint T-1. I've never shot it for groups at 100, but I'm confident with a decent scope and match grade fodder that it would not disappoint.

    The sub-eight pound .308 P'tAR just had a Elcan Specter DR (1X/4X) on it, but it would shoot MOA or better at any distance out to 300 yards, as far as I ever shot it. It would shoot everything equally well, too.

    One of my sons shot an MOA five shot group with the 16" 5.56 P'tOBR ... at 815 yards. Four were in 4.5". ASYM 77 SMK.

    My very first five shot group with my first .308 P'tOBR with its "Field Grade" barrel was one amazingly tiny hole. Hornady AMAX TAP 155.

    I've shot more sub-half-MOA five shot groups with the .260 P'tOBR than any gas gun I've ever owned. It LOVES Prime .260. It always runs, even suppressed (Tranquilo), without a hiccup, ever. If I could have just one rifle, this would be it.

    If you're looking for a number, I'd put the rifles with scopes at conservatively 0.65" - 0.75" for ALL five shot groups at 100 yards.

     

    Bakwa

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    BigJake83,

    Is your 6.5G upper kit the only experience that you have on a Larue product?

    Just curious, because your blanket opinion of the product seems pretty strong.
    As a consumer without any experience behind a Larue rifle, I remain in constant confusion because I hear so many good things about the OBR and Larue in general, but then every once in a while I find someone determined to convince others not to waste their money on them. I guess I'm just curious if your conclusion is drawn from a sample of one or if you are drawing from more evidence that I don't know about.
     

    Marine24

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    The upper kit is a good way to pick up a Larue compared to the next cheaper option of their PredatAR. I have the 18" PredatAR and it is a very accurate rifle with five round groups running in the .65 to .71" range with 69gr FGMM ammo. I recently purchased a complete rifle built from the Larue upper kit and lower from a fellow forum member in 6.5 Grendel. Just picked up optics for it, so haven't had it to the range yet, but target pictures seller provided showed sub MOA five shot groups shooting Hornady Black 123gr ammo.

    One drawback to the upper kit is that it uses the Stealth upper and hand guard, which have ears on them that are used to attach the upper to the hand guard. Not the most aesthetically pleasing and may limit your options if you wanted to swap the hand guard later.

    I like the fit and finish of my Wilson Combat Recon Tactical better to both of my Larue's with the accuracy edge going to Wilson, but hard to argue with the price of the upper kit and option to purchase a Larue lower; ears and all.
     

    BCP

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    People keep asking about barrels from what I understand larue makes their own. Don't know if it's a blank from someone like wilson or green mountain or if they are 100% in house.

    TBH I would rather just get the upper, bcg, and an 18" barrel and then add all my own little bits. Kinda have to because California legality horseshit stuff but not really a fan of his stock and trigger either. I do like his grips though.
     

    Bill3508x

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    My factory built Grendel like Jake's did not shoot well out of the box, but I'm not one to send shit back and any AR can be fixed by throwing money at it. So I changed some parts, bedded the barrel and shrank my groups in half of what they were. No bad feelings towards Larue cause shit happens. I also own a Obr 7.62 that shoots well and will likely buy a few more Larue rifles. Very few things are absolutely perfect and most rifles fall outside of that category. Some get great ones, others good , and then some that are just mediocre.
     

    bigjake83

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    BigJake83,

    Is your 6.5G upper kit the only experience that you have on a Larue product?

    Just curious, because your blanket opinion of the product seems pretty strong.
    As a consumer without any experience behind a Larue rifle, I remain in constant confusion because I hear so many good things about the OBR and Larue in general, but then every once in a while I find someone determined to convince others not to waste their money on them. I guess I'm just curious if your conclusion is drawn from a sample of one or if you are drawing from more evidence that I don't know about.

    Yes I have quite a lot of experience with LaRue products, mostly getting them shooting properly.

    Just about every person who I shoot with that owns LaRue rifles has already replaced the barrels with Custom Bartlein's. If you go onto MSTN's original Thread about the LaRue Grendel you will see I was very fair with my opinions of The Grendel kit, and after alot of work I did get it shooting .5 MOA, but it does have its issues.
    https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...-grendel-rifle

    IMO LaRue Rifles offer nothing to justify their cost, $3,400 for a rifle with mediocre accuracy, no Sights, no Muzzle Brake, a trigger that's barely above a Rock River 2 stage, and not a single ambidextrous control, a switchblock gas system that doesn't really do anything most people still have to buy a heavier buffer to run suppressed reliably.

    The only innovation they have to offer is a true free floated barrel and even with that they only averaging about .85 MOA, just enough to squeak by the sub MOA standard of today.


    Think about it!! ...There is absolutely no difference between a buying OBR or a tOBR then a Rock River LAR8 or any other Plain Jane large frame AR, there is nothing special about them....Hell! The LAR8 I've seen are more accurate!! all people are paying for is the LaRue name/gimmick. And for the people who are thinking about the switch barrel design on the tOBR, give me one instance where that has actually been useful??? It does make changing a barrel easier but that's about it, And you still can't buy barrel replacement in any other Calibre than .308 anyway.


    And in regards to the people who give these outrageous 5 Star fluff piece reviews and say how amazing their gun is and that there's nothing better then LaRue a rifle are full of it!! They are just Fanboys who don't want to look foolish for spending $3,400 on a mediocre rifle.
    Go on to AR15.com and you will see cherry picked 1/2 MOA groups all day long, but ask one of them to do a 5x5...HOLLY SHIT!! THEY ACT LIKE YOU JUST GAVE THEIR MOTHER A CASE OF THE CRABS...

    Now onto a positive note......

    IMO the LaRue OBR is an awesome battle style rifle with its monolithic top rail and a true free floating barrel, it's a bit on the heavy side but if I was to be deployed again I would have no problem taking one with me, over something like a SCAR , LMT or the new HK.

    Yes they are well made, But so are other rifles at half the cost.

    Yes the Upper kits are well made and a good deal for the price in parts alone.

    If anyone takes anything from what I've said please let it be this... Mark LaRue and his team make a decent product, and if the LaRue product line is for you, then I say go for it. But for the love of god stop over exaggerating the product, and keep it real so when everyday people ask for help from experienced shooters before they spend a months pay on a rifle , tell them the truth and don't blow smoke up their ass..

    That's why I got banned last month for 30 days for a remark I made because LRRPF52 wrote a 1000 word fluff piece that seriously overglorified the new Grendel. And it's articles like that, that people read from experience shooters and take it as Gospel, then come to find out the product they just spent their money on is not even close to be as good as people like LRRPF52 have led them to believe. CREWS didn't like my comments either, but he sold his LaRue Grendel after owning it for less than a month, so I'd say I'm safe to assume his was shooting poorly as well.
     
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    Bakwa

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    Yes I have quite a lot of experience with LaRue products, mostly getting them shooting properly.

    Just about every person who I shoot with that owns LaRue rifles has already replaced the barrels with Custom Bartlein's. If you go onto MSTN's original Thread about the LaRue Grendel you will see I was very fair with my opinions of The Grendel kit, and after alot of work I did get it shooting .5 MOA, but it does have its issues.
    https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...-grendel-rifle

    IMO LaRue Rifles offer nothing to justify their cost, $3,400 for a rifle with mediocre accuracy, no Sights, no Muzzle Brake, a trigger that's barely above a Rock River 2 stage, and not a single ambidextrous control, a switchblock gas system that doesn't really do anything most people still have to buy a heavier buffer to run suppressed reliably.

    The only innovation they have to offer is a true free floated barrel and even with that they only averaging about .85 MOA, just enough to squeak by the sub MOA standard of today.


    Think about it!! ...There is absolutely no difference between a buying OBR or a tOBR then a Rock River LAR8 or any other Plain Jane large frame AR, there is nothing special about them....Hell! The LAR8 I've seen are more accurate!! all people are paying for is the LaRue name/gimmick. And for the people who are thinking about the switch barrel design on the tOBR, give me one instance where that has actually been useful??? It does make changing a barrel easier but that's about it, And you still can't buy barrel replacement in any other Calibre than .308 anyway.


    And in regards to the people who give these outrageous 5 Star fluff piece reviews and say how amazing their gun is and that there's nothing better then LaRue a rifle are full of it!! They are just Fanboys who don't want to look foolish for spending $3,400 on a mediocre rifle.
    Go on to AR15.com and you will see cherry picked 1/2 MOA groups all day long, but ask one of them to do a 5x5...HOLLY SHIT!! THEY ACT LIKE YOU JUST GAVE THEIR MOTHER A CASE OF THE CRABS...

    Now onto a positive note......

    IMO the LaRue OBR is an awesome battle style rifle with its monolithic top rail and a true free floating barrel, it's a bit on the heavy side but if I was to be deployed again I would have no problem taking one with me, over something like a SCAR , LMT or the new HK.

    Yes they are well made, But so are other rifles at half the cost.

    Yes the Upper kits are well made and a good deal for the price in parts alone.

    If anyone takes anything from what I've said please let it be this... Mark LaRue and his team make a decent product, and if the LaRue product line is for you, then I say go for it. But for the love of god stop over exaggerating the product, and keep it real so when everyday people ask for help from experienced shooters before they spend a months pay on a rifle , tell them the truth and don't blow smoke up their ass..

    That's why I got banned last month for 30 days for a remark I made because LRRPF52 wrote a 1000 word fluff piece that seriously overglorified the new Grendel. And it's articles like that, that people read from experience shooters and take it as Gospel, then come to find out the product they just spent their money on is not even close to be as good as people like LRRPF52 have led them to believe. CREWS didn't like my comments either, but he sold his LaRue Grendel after owning it for less than a month, so I'd say I'm safe to assume his was shooting poorly as well.

    Thanks for clarifying.
    I understand and I think I agree.

     

    Marine24

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    Ears I was referring to.

     

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    .30kal

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    I've owed a Larue OBR and it is was a nice rifle that was capable of .6-7 MOA. However, it was not perfect. It was too heavy and over gassed. I sold it and built a 6.5 CM from a Mega MaTen set and JP internals. While the Larue machining was solid, the Mega's is a work of machining art. The JP barrel regularly shoots .5 MOA or better with factory Hornady. No regrets, and I haven't bothered to work up a load since it shoots factory so well. I also own an original stealth upper that shoots .5 MOA with Mk262 type ammo. The original stealth upper is not that nice, the rail was heavy and outdated (since replaced with a new BCM MLOK). However, it just plain shoots. Both of these were purchased before Larue started turning their own barrels.

    My experience with the 6.5 G ultimate upper has been not as good, which might have something to do with Larue not using Lothar Walther barrels anymore. While the machining and cerakoting were excellent and the free float design is solid, the barrel to receiver fit was sloppy and loose. The barrel wouldn't shoot sub-MOA with factory ammo and my reloading efforts were less than ideal (maybe .7 MOA at best). I even put in a new carrier, an SSA-E trigger and a JP SCS, which did not help much. To Larue's credit, they were very good about sending me a label to send it back and they returned it to me with a new barrel. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I'm hoping the target then sent back which had three shots holding .6" is a good sign. However, I am tempted to just sell the barrel before shooting since it is a little heavy for field use and just get an 18" JP barrel.

    Larue used to be one of the only options for match-grade ARs, but has been behind the times for a while now and is playing catch up now that the AR market has softened while there being newer and innovative options. Overall, I don't think it is worth buying the kit unless you like all of Larue's parts and are looking for field grade rifle in terms of accuracy. For that, I'd take a BCM all day, every day.

    I ended up selling most of what the kit came with except the upper, barrel and BCG. Personally, I don't care for their stock and grip. I also don't like the MBT trigger I prefer a Geissele SSA-E which can be had for only a little more than the MBT when on sale. The buffer is just standard carbine weight and the carrier is an unknown contract manufacturer. The buffer tube was not any nicer than a Milspec BCM or VLTOR. Larue's billet lowers are okay, but as Jake noted above lack modern features such as a short throw safety option and ambi controls. You're basically buying the logo, if that is worth something to you cool.

    I also think it is a crap shoot on getting a really good barrel (at least for Grendel). If you look at the threads in the Larue forum on ARF dot com there are few guys that have good results from factory 6.5G ammo. However, the vast majority are three shot groups just under an inch. Most won't post five shot groups, and those that do aren't that impressive. Given my prior experience with Larue and JP, my standards are a lot higher than what Jake is right to call fanboys. If you really like their upper design, it would probably be better to just buy the stripped upper/rail combo and buy a better barrel and BCG.

    As far as large frames go, what I've seen over at ARF is not that impressive. I'd get a Seekins, JP or GAP-10 or build one using a Mega set.
     
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    Monstershot

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    Yes I have quite a lot of experience with LaRue products, mostly getting them shooting properly.

    Just about every person who I shoot with that owns LaRue rifles has already replaced the barrels with Custom Bartlein's. If you go onto MSTN's original Thread about the LaRue Grendel you will see I was very fair with my opinions of The Grendel kit, and after alot of work I did get it shooting .5 MOA, but it does have its issues.
    https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...-grendel-rifle

    IMO LaRue Rifles offer nothing to justify their cost, $3,400 for a rifle with mediocre accuracy, no Sights, no Muzzle Brake, a trigger that's barely above a Rock River 2 stage, and not a single ambidextrous control, a switchblock gas system that doesn't really do anything most people still have to buy a heavier buffer to run suppressed reliably.

    The only innovation they have to offer is a true free floated barrel and even with that they only averaging about .85 MOA, just enough to squeak by the sub MOA standard of today.


    Think about it!! ...There is absolutely no difference between a buying OBR or a tOBR then a Rock River LAR8 or any other Plain Jane large frame AR, there is nothing special about them....Hell! The LAR8 I've seen are more accurate!! all people are paying for is the LaRue name/gimmick. And for the people who are thinking about the switch barrel design on the tOBR, give me one instance where that has actually been useful??? It does make changing a barrel easier but that's about it, And you still can't buy barrel replacement in any other Calibre than .308 anyway.


    And in regards to the people who give these outrageous 5 Star fluff piece reviews and say how amazing their gun is and that there's nothing better then LaRue a rifle are full of it!! They are just Fanboys who don't want to look foolish for spending $3,400 on a mediocre rifle.
    Go on to AR15.com and you will see cherry picked 1/2 MOA groups all day long, but ask one of them to do a 5x5...HOLLY SHIT!! THEY ACT LIKE YOU JUST GAVE THEIR MOTHER A CASE OF THE CRABS...

    Now onto a positive note......

    IMO the LaRue OBR is an awesome battle style rifle with its monolithic top rail and a true free floating barrel, it's a bit on the heavy side but if I was to be deployed again I would have no problem taking one with me, over something like a SCAR , LMT or the new HK.

    Yes they are well made, But so are other rifles at half the cost.

    Yes the Upper kits are well made and a good deal for the price in parts alone.

    If anyone takes anything from what I've said please let it be this... Mark LaRue and his team make a decent product, and if the LaRue product line is for you, then I say go for it. But for the love of god stop over exaggerating the product, and keep it real so when everyday people ask for help from experienced shooters before they spend a months pay on a rifle , tell them the truth and don't blow smoke up their ass..

    That's why I got banned last month for 30 days for a remark I made because LRRPF52 wrote a 1000 word fluff piece that seriously overglorified the new Grendel. And it's articles like that, that people read from experience shooters and take it as Gospel, then come to find out the product they just spent their money on is not even close to be as good as people like LRRPF52 have led them to believe. CREWS didn't like my comments either, but he sold his LaRue Grendel after owning it for less than a month, so I'd say I'm safe to assume his was shooting poorly as well.

    Jake, Some stuff I agree with here, though I think you’re prone to hyperbole in your efforts to balance the ‘fluff’ and fanboyism, with the end result being an anti-LaRue bias. Two points: the MOA all day challenge on ARFCOM is dominated by shooters using LaRue products, so there is definitely some backing up of the claims with solid shooting. The second is that while I agree that LRRPF52’s review of exceptional cycling has not mirrored my own experience with my 6.5 Grendel kit, calling him a fanboy is ridiculous to anyone who is familiar with the body of his forum posting here, at 65gendel.com and ARFCOM. Indeed, it is your credibility and bias regarding LaRue products that is much more in question, to me atleast, when I see the way you comport yourself in public compared to LRRPF52.

    My 6.5 Grendel kit with LaRue is awesome for the $1000 I paid for it. At this point if I had $3500 to spend on a rifle it would go to JP and not LaRue, but at the price I paid for mine I don’t think it can be beat by anything on the market.
     
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    bigjake83

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    Jake, Some stuff I agree with here, though I think you’re prone to hyperbole in your efforts to balance the ‘fluff’ and fanboyism, with the end result being an anti-LaRue bias. Two points: the MOA all day challenge on ARFCOM is dominated by shooters using LaRue products, so there is definitely some backing up of the claims with solid shooting. The second is that while I agree that LRRPF52’s review of exceptional cycling has not mirrored my own experience with my 6.5 Grendel kit, calling him a fanboy is ridiculous to anyone who is familiar with the body of his forum posting here, at 65gendel.com and ARFCOM. Indeed, it is your credibility and bias regarding LaRue products that is much more in question, to me atleast, when I see the way you comport yourself in public compared to LRRPF52.

    I'm sorry if I've offended your delicate eyes on this public forum, but I tell it like it is, and sugar coating is a waste of time. Anyone who knows me know I've put countless hours in helping people especially in the Semi Auto community.

    And to further my honesty I could really give two shits if someone with a total of 39 post thinks about my Credibility.

    And in regards to accuracy of Larue rifles, and The "ONE" MOA all day challage on ar15.com you're correct it shows they average .85 MOA
     
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    Monstershot

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    I'm sorry if I've offended your delicate eyes on this public forum, but I tell it like it is, and sugar coating is a waste of time. Anyone who knows me know I've put countless hours in helping people especially in the Semi Auto community.

    And to further my honesty I could really give two shits if someone with a total of 39 post thinks about my Credibility.

    And in regards to accuracy of Larue rifles, and The "ONE" MOA all day challage on ar15.com you're correct it shows they average .85 MOA

    No, you’re not sorry, and you act like you’re in junior high school. You resort to insults and foul language instead of intellect whenever someone disagrees with you on the forum. Speaking to people in a respectful manner is not sugar coating. People consistently put on kids gloves with you in their responses so as not to incur your forum wrath. You’re the very definition of a forum bully, who thinks he can raise his own stature in the eyes of others by belittling dissenters. Your comportment is straight out of ARFCOM GD.

    You clearly have advanced knowledge and experience in the subject matter at hand. I’ve learned a few things from you and will continue to do so. I’ve seen you help out shooters many times as well. It doesn’t earn you the right to be an asshole. Treat others with respect and you’ll gain it for yourself. Most of us learned these lessons before adulthood. It’s not too late brother.
     
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    bigjake83

    Golden Shellback
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 19, 2013
    3,659
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    Southern Idaho
    No, you’re not sorry, and you act like you’re in junior high school. You resort to insults and foul language instead of intellect whenever someone disagrees with you on the forum. Speaking to people in a respectful manner is not sugar coating. People consistently put on kids gloves with you in their responses so as not to incur your forum wrath. You’re the very definition of a forum bully, who thinks he can raise his own stature in the eyes of others by belittling dissenters. Your comportment is straight out of ARFCOM GD.

    You clearly have advanced knowledge and experience in the subject matter at hand. I’ve learned a few things from you and will continue to do so. I’ve seen you help out shooters many times as well. It doesn’t earn you the right to be an asshole. Treat others with respect and you’ll gain it for yourself. Most of us learned these lessons before adulthood. It’s not too late brother.

    Glad I could help...
     

    BCP

    Lt. Colonel
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 4, 2008
    5,878
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    CA
    I seem to remember posts when BigJake was in love with his OBR so I don't think he's a Larue Hater etc. As for these kits it looks like the grendel kit is 800 bucks, at that price if they shoot around 1MOA with handloads you're getting your money's worth.
     

    Marine24

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 7, 2010
    106
    49
    61
    Colorado
    Here are some target pictures from the seller I purchased my Larue Kit 6.5 Grendel from and the rifle in question. I paid $1100 for the complete rifle, which includes the Larue lower, MBT, SLR adjustable gas block and MOE fixed stock.

    Ammo was 123gr Hornady Black. We'll see how well it likes the Federal Gold Medal Berger 130gr ammo.
     

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    Bill3508x

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 16, 2017
    33
    0
    Georgia
    Here are some target pictures from the seller I purchased my Larue Kit 6.5 Grendel from and the rifle in question. I paid $1100 for the complete rifle, which includes the Larue lower, MBT, SLR adjustable gas block and MOE fixed stock.

    Ammo was 123gr Hornady Black. We'll see how well it like the Federal Gold Medal Berger 130gr ammo.

    Nothing wrong with that.
     

    OLAG

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 28, 2018
    1
    0
    Oh, writing about products one does not own....

    My nephew and I bought the LaRue 6.5 Creedmoor kit and did the build on 2018.01.01. We took the rifle to an indoor range to get comfortable with it and were making keyhole shots on their 50 yard lane. When we took it to zero the scope at 100 yards, we got sub-MOA groups (picture attached). I finally got it out to the NRA Whittington Center, in New Mexico, in July, and it consistently hit 24" targets out to 1,300 yards firing Hornady 81491.

    I also have a LaRue PredatOBR, for which I have 16" and 20" barrels chambered in .308. I sometimes use an AAC can on the 16" barrel. Sub-MOA groups are always expected firing Hornady 8096 (pictures attached).

    I'm sure there are rifles made that are more accurate than LaRue, but you wouldn't be able to prove it unless you were capable of out-shooting the LaRue.

    I hope this helps.
    Build Day 2018.01.01.jpgZero Scope 2018.03.01.jpgLaRue 16%22 PredatOBR Hornady 8096.jpgLaRue 16%22 PredatOBR Hornady 8096 AAC Suppressor.jpgLaRue 20%22 PredatOBR Hornady 8096.jpg
     

    bhoges

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 11, 2003
    869
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    Plainview,NY
    I'm a fan of JP builds. I tried building rifles with Kreiger and Shilen barrels but they don't hold a candle to my JP. Well worth the money.
     

    Triple D

    Trigger Monkey
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 22, 2011
    870
    421
    Georgia
    Jake, Some stuff I agree with here, though I think you’re prone to hyperbole in your efforts to balance the ‘fluff’ and fanboyism, with the end result being an anti-LaRue bias. Two points: the MOA all day challenge on ARFCOM is dominated by shooters using LaRue products, so there is definitely some backing up of the claims with solid shooting. The second is that while I agree that LRRPF52’s review of exceptional cycling has not mirrored my own experience with my 6.5 Grendel kit, calling him a fanboy is ridiculous to anyone who is familiar with the body of his forum posting here, at 65gendel.com and ARFCOM. Indeed, it is your credibility and bias regarding LaRue products that is much more in question, to me atleast, when I see the way you comport yourself in public compared to LRRPF52.

    My 6.5 Grendel kit with LaRue is awesome for the $1000 I paid for it. At this point if I had $3500 to spend on a rifle it would go to JP and not LaRue, but at the price I paid for mine I don’t think it can be beat by anything on the market.

    1) The top posts on the MOA challenge in the SPR division don’t look credible. The top 2 shooters were removed from the site for various reasons, ranging from bad business practices, lying and various other code of conduct violations. The gent in third place for the SPR division left when #2 was booted and catching heat for his precision claims (sub half moa 5x5 w/ Fed TRU ammo). It also appears that the top 2 entries didn’t even meet all of the requirements for submission, but they were allowed anyways. The OP of the thread is a LaRue fanboy, so that’s likely the reason.

    Throw out the questionable top 3 entries and any others by Mike_P, and it will change your perception real quick, or at least it should. Also, it would appear that the bags used by many of the top 20 Larue product shooters didn’t conform to the rules. I.e, they were given special treatment that other shooters/rifles weren’t subjected to.

    2) LRRPF52 received his rifle as a gift from LaRue based on his initial post about it. Whether that played a part in his review is unknown, but that’s a fact to consider.

    3) A few weeks back, a buddy with a LaRue Ultimate upper kit allowed me to go to the range with him. With both of us using the same factory ammo that LaRue specified for “proof” testing their barrels (223 FGMM), the accuracy of my “match” barrel blew away the LaRue. He was well over MOA for 5 shots, while the “match” barrel was .38moa for its 5rd string. The SD from the “match” barrel was also approximately half of that from the Larue. Obviously a small sample size, but it was interesting to see such drastic results.

    4) I’ve tested my own LaRue stealth barrel with a lot of different ammo. It typically can shoot at or just under moa, but it’s not nearly as precise as my other precision builds (Shilen, Rock Creek, Rainier, Ballistic Advantage).

    5) I think they are nice weapons and certainly useable for a lot of applications, but I think there are a lot of options/barrels that will yield greater precision than what a LaRue barrel will, based on my first hand experience.
     
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    Crews

    Sergeant
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    Minuteman
  • May 11, 2017
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    No, you’re not sorry, and you act like you’re in junior high school. You resort to insults and foul language instead of intellect whenever someone disagrees with you on the forum. Speaking to people in a respectful manner is not sugar coating. People consistently put on kids gloves with you in their responses so as not to incur your forum wrath. You’re the very definition of a forum bully, who thinks he can raise his own stature in the eyes of others by belittling dissenters. Your comportment is straight out of ARFCOM GD.

    You clearly have advanced knowledge and experience in the subject matter at hand. I’ve learned a few things from you and will continue to do so. I’ve seen you help out shooters many times as well. It doesn’t earn you the right to be an asshole. Treat others with respect and you’ll gain it for yourself. Most of us learned these lessons before adulthood. It’s not too late brother.

    I couldn't agree more with this statement.... in fact, hasn't this guy already been kicked off this forum once? FBI calls that a clue!

    Now that I have that off my chest, back to the topic at hand. I had a 6.5 Grendel upper kit with the matching lower. Straight from the factory, it was "combat dependable and accurate." Accuracy was completely sufficient for medium range hunting, and gun was very dependable. Nice gun for the money, but definitely not the best way to spend your dollars if you get your rocks off on tiny groups.

    I bedded the barrel extension, and added a SLR AGB, JP H2 SCS, and a JP LMOS and it turned into a very different rifle. 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards with factory Hornady ammo, and a real joy to shoot. Could you build something better with the same money by starting from scratch and hand-picking each component? ABSOLUTELY.
     
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    LRRPF52

    Sergeant
    Full Member
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    Mar 13, 2012
    1,208
    877
    SLC, Utah
    Yes I have quite a lot of experience with LaRue products, mostly getting them shooting properly.

    Just about every person who I shoot with that owns LaRue rifles has already replaced the barrels with Custom Bartlein's. If you go onto MSTN's original Thread about the LaRue Grendel you will see I was very fair with my opinions of The Grendel kit, and after alot of work I did get it shooting .5 MOA, but it does have its issues.
    https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...-grendel-rifle

    IMO LaRue Rifles offer nothing to justify their cost, $3,400 for a rifle with mediocre accuracy, no Sights, no Muzzle Brake, a trigger that's barely above a Rock River 2 stage, and not a single ambidextrous control, a switchblock gas system that doesn't really do anything most people still have to buy a heavier buffer to run suppressed reliably.

    The only innovation they have to offer is a true free floated barrel and even with that they only averaging about .85 MOA, just enough to squeak by the sub MOA standard of today.

    Think about it!! ...There is absolutely no difference between a buying OBR or a tOBR then a Rock River LAR8 or any other Plain Jane large frame AR, there is nothing special about them....Hell! The LAR8 I've seen are more accurate!! all people are paying for is the LaRue name/gimmick. And for the people who are thinking about the switch barrel design on the tOBR, give me one instance where that has actually been useful??? It does make changing a barrel easier but that's about it, And you still can't buy barrel replacement in any other Calibre than .308 anyway.


    And in regards to the people who give these outrageous 5 Star fluff piece reviews and say how amazing their gun is and that there's nothing better then LaRue a rifle are full of it!! They are just Fanboys who don't want to look foolish for spending $3,400 on a mediocre rifle.
    Go on to AR15.com and you will see cherry picked 1/2 MOA groups all day long, but ask one of them to do a 5x5...HOLLY SHIT!! THEY ACT LIKE YOU JUST GAVE THEIR MOTHER A CASE OF THE CRABS...

    Now onto a positive note......

    IMO the LaRue OBR is an awesome battle style rifle with its monolithic top rail and a true free floating barrel, it's a bit on the heavy side but if I was to be deployed again I would have no problem taking one with me, over something like a SCAR , LMT or the new HK.

    Yes they are well made, But so are other rifles at half the cost.

    Yes the Upper kits are well made and a good deal for the price in parts alone.

    If anyone takes anything from what I've said please let it be this... Mark LaRue and his team make a decent product, and if the LaRue product line is for you, then I say go for it. But for the love of god stop over exaggerating the product, and keep it real so when everyday people ask for help from experienced shooters before they spend a months pay on a rifle , tell them the truth and don't blow smoke up their ass..

    That's why I got banned last month for 30 days for a remark I made because LRRPF52 wrote a 1000 word fluff piece that seriously overglorified the new Grendel. And it's articles like that, that people read from experience shooters and take it as Gospel, then come to find out the product they just spent their money on is not even close to be as good as people like LRRPF52 have led them to believe. CREWS didn't like my comments either, but he sold his LaRue Grendel after owning it for less than a month, so I'd say I'm safe to assume his was shooting poorly as well.
    I've been eyeball-deep in AR15s since the 1980s. Deployed with M16A1s, A2s, M4s, M4A1s all over the world, have been working on, buying, and building all that time.

    I reached a stage early-on where I didn't trust manufacturers to source quality parts or assemble to my satisfaction, and my trusted list of vendors became smaller the more I experience I've gained. I have not owned a factory-built AR15 since 1997 I think, when I bought a pre-ban Bushmaster 11.5" with 5.5" permanent FH when I was stationed at Ft. Lewis.

    Everything I said about the Stealth 2.0 LaRue 6.5 Grendel is just as I said. It has the smoothest action of all my ARs, even with me polishing my bolt carrier guide rails on personal builds. If you pick up the LaRue and one of my other Grendels and rack the action, you will immediately notice the difference.

    Another major difference between the Stealth 2.0 and other standard AR15s is how solid the Stealth 2.0 receiver/handguard mate is. The whole rifle feels like one, solid piece, as opposed to the hint of flex you feel in other free-float systems. The only handguard/upper mates I've felt that are that solid are LMT MRP and VLTOR VIS.

    Accuracy with the LaRue 6.5 Grendel complete rifle has been so good at 100yds, that I don't bother with it anymore and have spent more time shooting it at distances out to 1000yds so far.

    Here are 2 groups next to each other that show one of the worst, and the best, using 123gr BTHP Hornady American Gunner at 70 cents per round, with a 1.5-6x Burris scope and that big center dot reticle with the horseshoe that does not present well for shooting groups:

    20171125_172039_zpskacuvewt.jpg


    If you look at the totality of my observations and experience of the firearms industry, I have worked very hard to be accurate and fair in what I see.

    When LaRue sent me the Stealth 2.0 out of the blue, I was more concerned about the inevitable problems I would discover with the rifle, and how to remain grateful, but fair to everyone who has come to value my experiences over the years. I thought about how I would point out things I didn't like about the rifle, while remaining respectful to LaRue.

    What happened instead was the rifle exceeded my expectations, revealed many small details that as a student of this design, really jumped out at me, and I would sell my family's Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 .270 Win that I grew up with before selling this LaRue Stealth 2.0 6.5 Grendel.

    To assume that the experiences you had with one or two samples mean that my sample must be different, and therefore call my character into question and falsely misrepresent my accurate reviews as fluff pieces is what bothers me.

    For one, it's based on the common logical fallacy of anecdotal experience. You experienced x, therefore everyone else will experience the same.

    Two, it's based on the false premise that because a 6061 receiver set Rock River with imitation AR15 parts throughout (I've owned them and dealt with them for years) can shoot as well, in your words, "there is nothing special about them".

    I do agree with you that with the kits, they are worth it for the parts alone, even if someone wants a different barrel. I think the biggest thing people overlook is bedding their barrels in the AR15 or AR10. Once you bed, I've experienced groups shrinking substantially, usually by half, and that includes JP and Krieger barrels.
     
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    lowrotoraudio

    Private
    Minuteman
    Aug 6, 2019
    1
    0
    Just to add another data point. I have the 308 UU kit. While fit and finish is excellent, Larue, according to their customer service utilizes a proprietary chamber dimensions. Fired cases are overly expanded and not able to be resized with out extreme measures. The fired cases out of my chamber measure at .0474 - .0476 (above the extractor rim) which appears to be over the spec for 308 chamber. They recommend I only shoot factory ammo and not reload.
     

    DuneShoot

    Canned SemiAuto
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 24, 2014
    314
    56
    AZ
    I've had great luck and excellent accuracy with 4 Larue's.
    2 factory rifles, one in 260 and one in 223, 1 UU kit in grendel (boring to shoot at 500 yards) and a Larue barrel 14.5" .223 upper.
    Sample of 4 and all shoot very well.