Would you rather have a larue match upper special 16” barrel going on right now for $750 or an 18” Krieger barreled compass lake engineering tactical upper for $1000? Not concerned about the price. Just looking for a extremely reliable and extremely accurate upper. Will be suppressed nearly 100% of the time shooting out to 500 yards.
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18" Krieger CLE. I winced the first Krieger barrel I bought until I shot it, then I smiled. I have both and like both but the Krieger is the best shooting.
I am sure that some more folks more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly to offer SME opinions.
I am sure that some more folks more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly to offer SME opinions.
Cle or Wylde chamber? Planning on 55 vmax and probably 77 smk
I have a CLE chamber in my CLE Krieger barrel.
I "think" it is throated for 77g smk's(which is what I run), but check with CLE on that.
I "think" it is throated for 77g smk's(which is what I run), but check with CLE on that.
I have a 18” CLE chambered krieger and it shoots phenomenal!!!! 77smk’s with 8208 is the easy button with it.
I think im shooting 23.2 or .3 gr of 8208 with 77smk's in the same barrel. Shoots better than I can thats for sure.
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Me personally, I use Both. LaRue used to sell his Upper Receiver/Handguard Combo on it's own for $400, and the true free floating barrel/handguard design helps the accuracy even further. This is a Compass Lake 16" Krieger CLE Match Chamber, 1-7.7 Twist, Intermediate Gas, SDM Profile, 9/16 Threads and Headspaced to a JP Enhanced Bolt/BCG. She's a honest Sub 1/2 MOA Setup.
If I was doing this build for you I'd, buy the LaRue 16" "Accuracy" Upper for $750, and order a Compass Lake Barrel like mentioned above because right now any quality barrel blanks are running between 6 to 9 months behind if not longer.
Shoot the LaRue upper as is until the CLE arrives, this will also give you time to find out how well of a semi-auto shooter you are, because I'm 100% sure the LaRue barrel will shoot at least sub MOA - .75 with Match Ammo. If you can't at least hold under 1" with Match Ammo all day with the LaRue barrel the CLE isn't going to magically make you better, and now days with the advancements/improvements in modern CNC machining shooting MOA with quality ammo isn't what I'd call a high Bar.
Shoot the LaRue upper as is until the CLE arrives, this will also give you time to find out how well of a semi-auto shooter you are, because I'm 100% sure the LaRue barrel will shoot at least sub MOA - .75 with Match Ammo. If you can't at least hold under 1" with Match Ammo all day with the LaRue barrel the CLE isn't going to magically make you better, and now days with the advancements/improvements in modern CNC machining shooting MOA with quality ammo isn't what I'd call a high Bar.
Went ahead and ordered the upper CLE had in stock. 18” 7.7 twist bart with superlative arms gas block and black cerakote. Rifle length gas. I figured the rifle length might be better since I’ll be shooting supressed pretty much 100% of the time and will have plenty of back pressure
What bullets are you guys having success with in the CLE chamber. I’m thinking of trying 77 smk, 69 smk and 73 eld
77g SMK
Shoot some garbage through it for 100-150 rounds for barrel break in.
My CLE Krieger took about 150 rounds to calm down and then it became a tack driver.
And if you are feeling spicy on the build put in a JP light weight carrier and the captured spring setup to pair with that adjustable gas block. I think mine shoots softer than a 22lr with it all tuned up.
Shoot some garbage through it for 100-150 rounds for barrel break in.
My CLE Krieger took about 150 rounds to calm down and then it became a tack driver.
And if you are feeling spicy on the build put in a JP light weight carrier and the captured spring setup to pair with that adjustable gas block. I think mine shoots softer than a 22lr with it all tuned up.
I bought a buffer assembly with H2 buffer since I’ll be running suppressed. Plan is to test and adjust gas block to where mild loads just hold the bolt open on empty mag without a can on. Hopefully runs both suppressed and Unsuppressed and not too violent with the can on. I’ll be using an omega. The 30 cal bore should help with back pressure a little bit
You will be fine... In the pic I posted above I'm running a jp scs and a superlative gas block and a hybrid with a 30 cal end cap . It's a pussycat to shoot. No issues shooting it supressed bor unsuppressed
Thats how mine is setup. I also know the setting for the can on to also BARELY operate. 5 clicks down. But its pretty tame with the can on also. I run a 30cal AAC 762SDN6.
If you are a reloader get you some 8208XBR and you'll probably be pretty much in the ballpark at 23.2-23.4g load.
I’ve got a lb of 8208 to true and legs of h4895 and varget
From the research I’ve done rifle for softer shooting and match rifles. Intermediate will be more reliable with a wider range of ammo. I doubt anyone is running light loaded steel ammo through these types of rifles so I’d probably lean toward rifle length especially if you have an adjustable gas block.
Been running tac since 8208 is so hard to find shoots just as well for me.
What’s your recommendation on a good starting point with tac?
I would start at 23.2 ish then work up from there. Most people usually find a good load been 23.9-24.5. I personally run 24.3 but its warm in my set up.
Rifle all day everyday. Wouldn't even consider intermediate on an 18". That's 16" or shorter territory.
I like your style. Can’t decide, buys both.
The compass lake rifle is going to run circles around the rest of them just feed it 77gr match ammo. If it was me I'd switch the two barrels, put the CLE Barrel into the LaRue upper.
The LaRue barrel is going to shoot the same regardless witch upper it's in, but the true free floating design in the LaRue upper/handguard combo will make that CLE truly shine. I haven't made a rifle with that combination of parts that hasn't shot SUB 1/2 MOA yet and I've made a lot of them.
After playing with both I’ve found fit and finish to be pretty similar with the edge to larue. The hand guard design on the larue is beefy as hell. I just which it had mlok at the 10, 2, 4, and 7 o clock positions. I like to put a tape switch there usually at 10 o clock. Only changes I’ve made is adding optics, light and changed the charging handle to a radian and a SiCo GDCH. Still can tell they need to break in and wear some of the anodizing down. Will do a rough zero and blast 100 rounds of junk ammo through both, clean both rifles then foul and shoot for groups and measure velocity.
I’ve got plenty of brass case m855 and m193 but curious as to your logic on this one?
I’ve got plenty of brass case m855 and m193 but curious as to your logic on this one?
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Do not shoot steel case ammo in the CLE Barrel.
Why is that? Steel case doesn’t hurt anything. Been plenty of testing etc to show it doesn’t hurt anything other than slightly faster throat erosion over thousands and thousands of rounds. However when breaking in a barrel wearing down the rougher spots is the goal actually.
IMHO, I wouldn't want to shoot steel cased ammo in the probably tight / minimum spec chamber of the CLE barrel.
Steel cases do not "release" from the chamber walls as readily as brass cases. And that can cause extraction issues.
Also, the powder used is a cheap as possible. I'd bet it is more "abrasive", so bore wear will be accelerated.
To each their own.
Steel cases do not "release" from the chamber walls as readily as brass cases. And that can cause extraction issues.
Also, the powder used is a cheap as possible. I'd bet it is more "abrasive", so bore wear will be accelerated.
To each their own.
While what you stated is true, 100 rounds makes no difference over the course of a barrels lifespan for a 223 really. If the only downside is reliability that’s no big deal during break in really
Shooting steel cased ammo in a CLE barrel is pretty cringe-worthy to those of us that have dumped a bundle of money and endured the lead time wait for a CLE barrel on a quality blank.
It's your rifle and you can do what ever you please, but the general consensus is that brass cased ammo is better for an AR-15 than steel cased ammo. I don't shoot steel cased ammo in any rifles that have barrels that are above "Rack Grade" if I have a choice.
I have a choice at this point in time so I shoot brass cased ammo.
It's your rifle and you can do what ever you please, but the general consensus is that brass cased ammo is better for an AR-15 than steel cased ammo. I don't shoot steel cased ammo in any rifles that have barrels that are above "Rack Grade" if I have a choice.
I have a choice at this point in time so I shoot brass cased ammo.
Just my opinion, but you need 4-6 groups to know what you and the rifle can do. A single group is just far too insignificant to form any real opinion on performance.
i shot several groups. Only 2 at 100 and then shot at 363 yards and it printed a nice group on the steel. This upper is def a shooter and with reman ammo is pretty impressive. I need to get velocity numbers after around 100 rounds when it’s fully broken in.
Post some more results once it gets broken in. Looks like you are off to a solid start
Sorry to dig up an older thread but does the CLE upper not give a true free floating barrel?
With the same 77 smk ammo my larue shoots better than my CLE. The larue was only 750 bucks too. Just saying its luck of the draw many times.
No their standard uppers they use do not utilize that style upper/handguard design. If you want that you have to supply it, regardless if you're using a CLE Bartlein or Krieger barrel blank it's going to dance circles around anything that comes from LaRue.
CLE has 4 different style 5.56 uppers and a few in other calibers.
Service rifle is like a standard M16 upper
Match rifle is free floated(as far as i can tell)
Varmint is free float
Tactical is free floated
I do believe BigJake is right in that in years past the ONLY thing they offered as a complete upper was the service rifle stuff. I believe when I bought my barrel circa 2012-13 thats all they offered in complete uppers.
I believe he is referring to a "true" free floating design where the handguard does not mount to the barrel nut.
My input is both shoot great but the LaRue barrels I have are a bit slower with same ammo
With that said my LaRue’s are so dependable and accurate I don’t mind giving up a little velocity because they work every time every type of ammo . I have only shot the CL stuff for fun and they impress with velocity and groups
With that said my LaRue’s are so dependable and accurate I don’t mind giving up a little velocity because they work every time every type of ammo . I have only shot the CL stuff for fun and they impress with velocity and groups
does that exist in the AR platform?
And why does it matter? it doesnt as I understand the AR platform...
There's FAR FAR FAR more places on the AR platform that can lend a hand to accuracy than trying to not mount the hand guard to the barrel nut...however that would work anyway.
My precision 5.56 gun with a CLE Krieger barrel ran with bolt guns at the couple comps I shot it at... the hand guard is mounted to the barrel nut... I was told "you wont be competitive"... I think the big competition I shot it at had like 80 or 100 shooters and I finished in the top 15.
The 16" larue barrels are badly overgassed . . .
....
My two samples are not. I’m shooting mostly suppressed with standard charging handles and BCG and the blowback is very minimal. They run super smooth, they don’t exhibit any symptoms of overgassed AR’s.
