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Laser Range Finding Comes of Age BigJimFish

BigJimFish

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Minuteman
Jul 24, 2011
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Coming home from Shot Show 2013 this year, the one thing that struck me the most about this year's optics products was that laser range finding has come of age and within the next few years I expect virtually all serious long range shooters will be purchasing a first, or additional, laser range finder. In the past, I have seen most laser range finding products as niche products with limited application. They were certainly not essential for a long range shooter and were often viewed as gimmicks. Very few of these early range finders were reliably good to 800 yards and virtually all of them were standalone, single purpose, monocular devices that output only range yet still cost a substantial amount of money.

While some of that changed in the past couple of years with the release of long range binoculars from Zeiss and Swarovski, as well as the first generation Burris Eliminator scope; these were still very limited devices. The Burris scope was short range and used only factory tables while the Zeiss and Swarovski, though they did double duty by replacing the shooter's binoculars, incorporated only ranging functions and, at 42mm or larger, were not as small or light as I would like. All of these products were an upgrade, but they were not total ballistic calculation solutions.

This year all that changed. Not only did the Burris Eliminator III offer an almost total ballistic calculation solution in a scope, but the Leica Geovid HD-B 42 (with the exception of wind) accomplished this in binocular form. Bushnell even came pretty close with the Fusion one mile 8x32mm product. This is a product that, at $1,000 and with the 8x32mm form factor I want, offers quite a value even if it lacks the Leica's custom load data, temperature, and pressure sensors.

The Leica Geovid HD-B 42 offers output to shooter in mils or moa calculated from custom data and measured range, altitude (pressure), angle of inclination, and temperature:
leicarangingbino_zpsa55564a5.jpg


More calculation still is offered by the Trijicon CCAS and Tracking Point systems. These are scope based systems that actually tag and track targets in order to compensate for discrepancies between the velocity of moving targets and that of moving or stationary shooters. While esoteric in price, availability, and, in the case of the Tracking Point, user freedom; these are technologically quite advanced.

With the products now available, there is simply no doubt that a shooter's primary ballistic calculator can be integrated with the laser range finding unit in the form factor of a pair of binoculars, a rifle scope, or a standalone monocular device. I will now lay out my reasons for desiring the form factor of this device to be 8x32mm binoculars, as well as exactly what features I think this optic should include. I would like as much comment from the community as possible on these points because I intend to cajole my favorite optics makers with this thread and many of you members are far more experienced than I am. In order to get what we want, we need to let the right folks know.

The first decision that has to be made regarding the range finder is the package. My preference is an 8x32mm binocular because binoculars are part of my always present long range shooting gear. Furthermore, unlike the rifle and scope, the binoculars I use are the same regardless of rifle. Thus, with one binocular I could service all rifles as well as bows for the bow hunter and black powder for the black powder hunter. Another consideration is that while a range finding and ballistic calculating binocular would supersede the cumbersome use of a range finding reticle, angle of inclination gauge, thermometer, barometric pressure gauge, and set of written tables; it would not replace any of them. This would allow the shooter a backup in event of electronic failure. My choice of 8x32mm as opposed to, say, 10x42mm is because the 32mm is lighter and has a wider field of view than the 42mm. I do not feel that the low light advantage gained from 42mm is worth the weight, but I really don't shoot in low light a great deal of the time. I choose 8mm simply because my hands are not steady enough to enjoy a 10mm and I wouldn't want to give up the field of view anyway since I am often using them to spot groundhogs in high grass. Field of view is crucial and 8x32mm is excellent in this regard.

Now for the features. If you had asked me last year, I would have said that range finding is fine if you like that kind of thing. Now that I have seen I can have more: I want it. Using tables, counting mils, looking at inclination gauges, messing with ballistic programs on the phone, and playing with the Kestrel all add up to a real complex pain in the ass system that is prone to screw ups on my part; especially in stressful situations when it matters most. I want the binocular to incorporate all that ballistic calculation as well as the readings for range, inclination, altitude (pressure, actually), and temperature. Furthermore, I want the program to allow a great amount of user input so that it can actually be accurate. Having an input for BC, muzzle velocity, and zero distance is good, but I would also like the program to be able to make best fit interpolations of these things from drop at distances with input of atmospheric variables. In short, there needs to be an advanced mode that allows things to be futzed with. Many of you have orders of magnitude more hours behind the rifle than me. Your input as to just exactly how this custom control should be done would be of great help. I am quite sure that with proper programming, the range finding binocular should replace the cadre of instruments and tables currently in use.

The last thing to talk about is the output. In rifle mode (bow mode should be different) the unit should have two output screens with four values per screen. The first screen will be the raw data check screen that allows the user to verify that the data looks plausible. This will display first and for a few seconds upon ranging. It will show at top left range in meters or yards. The top right will be angle of inclination in degrees. The bottom left will be altitude in meters or feet. The bottom right will be temperature in degrees centigrade of Fahrenheit. Output units will be selected in the software so that mixed up Americans can mix metric and English units in the same output screen. The second screen will automatically be switched to after three seconds and will have four pieces of shooting data. The upper left will be the holdover in mils, MOA, or IPHY. The upper right will be hold over at distance in feet and inches or meters. The bottom left will be correction for a 10mph full wind value in mils, MOA, or IPHY. The bottom right will be the correction for a 10mph full wind value in feet and inches or meters at distance. These wind values will simply serve the purpose of preventing the shooter from having to look at any tables at all. Again, the units for each value will be chosen by the shooter in the software under the advanced mode and may be mixed by confused American shooters. The output of these final calculated values may turn off after a few seconds, but will not be erased until the next ranging is done and should be accessible by tapping a key to wake up.

I would next like to address memory. Leica's new unit has a removable MicroSD card. This might be the best possible solution since you would have the ability to have unlimited loads and you could divvy up the loads onto as many different cards as you wanted to prevent yourself from getting mixed up regarding just which load you have for which rifle. It seems plain to me that with most shooters having several rifles as well as several loads per rifle, it will not take long to very quickly reach 10 or 20 ballistic profiles. If the unit is to rely on onboard memory alone, I do not think that 50 ballistic profiles is probably an unwarranted number.

The last issue I would like to address is appealing to a wide customer base. It seems obvious to me that having a unit that appeals to the precision rifle shooter, center fire hunters, bow hunters, and black powder hunters is better than a unit that appeals to only one class of people. The features I talked about are what I desire as a precision rifle shooter. For center fire hunters, the software should include an input for popular hunting loads as well as barrel length. The software should have a linear setup mode that asks the shooter for his input data serially as well as what units he wants output. Bow hunter should be included as a ballistic profile that outputs equivalent horizontal distance. I really don't know what black powder users are looking for with inputs, but I expect that bullet type, powder charge and type, and barrel length would be tolerable for those who don't know BC and muzzle velocity. The software should be flexible enough to allow all of these different modes to create ballistic profiles so that the optic or a memory card could hold a number of each simultaneously. Cycling from bow to a precision rifle profile would not be different than cycling from one precision rifle load to another. The optic would contain only labeled ballistic profiles not menus.

Tell me what you all think about laser range finding. I am impressed with how close to what I want Leica is currently offering. I expect that a firmware update changing the output format and adding wind values would put them in line with everything except the 32mm form factor I would most like.
 
Looks like I originally posted this article in the wrong forum. With the new format, I have found the right place so here it is again. Apologies to those who had already found it in the wrong place.
 
Nice posting, thanks for the work getting a concise summary. Now, if I could figure out a simple way to come up with an extra $1500-5500, I could get some new binocs, and a nice spotting scope.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to type all that for us.
 
The more units that can be comprehensively, and coherently condensed, the less weight bogging one down out in the field. Love the over all concept, looking forward to seeing it come to fruition. Though the option of either 8x or 10x would be nice. Of course a consolidated milling spotter would be just as acceptable, or back up reticle in the binos, if only to provide redundancy and practice doing it the old way.
 
Of course a consolidated milling spotter would be just as acceptable, or back up reticle in the binos, if only to provide redundancy and practice doing it the old way.

This was a question I had about the preference of others. I have always been a person who maximizes my primary equipment at the expense of tolerating less than ideal back up options. I don't do the two is one one is none thing. I buy the best one I can and a less than ideal backup. Things like plastic magpul backup sights, because they are light and cheep, next to an excellent 1-6x scope on an AR appeal to me. I hate co-witnessed red dot sights. Slowing down your primary optic because, if it breaks, you want the backup already ready to rock and role without so much as flipping up the sights and removing the scope is not a system I would use. I would not personally tolerate a mil reticle always sitting in the filed of view of my observation glass when I really wanted to use the integrated rangefinder and the mil was only a backup. I figure I could just use the scope reticle as a backup. Not ideal, but, to my mind, back ups are not supposed to be ideal. They are supposed to be livable. Your primary plan is supposed to be ideal and I don't like compromising mine for a backup. I know that many other folks have your point of view and even have identically configured rifles with one for backup of the other.

I wonder how many guys would prefer the backup reticle in the binoculars and how many would not tolerate it. I think that you are not alone in your preference for better backup options at the expense of better primary options. If the prevalence of co-witnessed optics is any indication, you are in the vast majority.
 
Although the reticle would have the possibility of "cluttering" the image, think of how useful it could be for a 2-man team. If the spotter is doing the ranging with the binos, he now has a guide for giving adjustments. Personally, I'd love to see them with reticle. Almost as bad as I'd like to see horizontal distance (for angle shooting) integrated into the terrapin. (seriously, Leica and Bushnell do it, so come on Vectronix!!)
 
A few thoughts.

First, a spectacularly written thread. I don't think there's even a misspelling. Second, we'd better all start carrying around a 12 pack of Duracells because with all this functionality, the batteries are going to go quickly...and unexpectedly. Third, yes, all of these great features are offered but do they work accurately? I've never had a groundhog shoot back at me so it's not like my life is on the line if I miss. But missing is unsafe and my justification for the Zeiss LRF is that it makes my shooting safer. I need these features to work accurately.

As far as ballistic calculators are concerned, I don't know. I may be showing my ignorance but it seems to me ballistic calculators only work well when the shot taken in the field is under the same conditions as when the ballistic calculator was calibrated at the range. Change any of the variables and the utility of the calculator is degraded.
 
A few thoughts.

First, a spectacularly written thread. I don't think there's even a misspelling. Second, we'd better all start carrying around a 12 pack of Duracells because with all this functionality, the batteries are going to go quickly...and unexpectedly. Third, yes, all of these great features are offered but do they work accurately? I've never had a groundhog shoot back at me so it's not like my life is on the line if I miss. But missing is unsafe and my justification for the Zeiss LRF is that it makes my shooting safer. I need these features to work accurately.

As far as ballistic calculators are concerned, I don't know. I may be showing my ignorance but it seems to me ballistic calculators only work well when the shot taken in the field is under the same conditions as when the ballistic calculator was calibrated at the range. Change any of the variables and the utility of the calculator is degraded.

I think you are missing the point that some of these calculators are now accommodating the changes in the field - temperature, pressure, etc and rolling them into the ballistic solution so that you have a solution that works as conditions vary.
 
i see several problems with the new opto-electronics. in the following i'll focus onto the new leica geovids, as they seem to be (together with the bushnell 1mile) one of the newest models of bino-rangefinders:

- electronic turn-around time is very short. you can expect something notably better about every 2 years. so ... with that timeframe, i'm not really willing to spend 2k every 2 years.

- the new geovid doesn't seem to be waterproof. at least in my area, this can be a pain in the neck over time. keep in mind that the electronics also has only about 2 years warranty (the normal optic components usually alot more), so corrosion can be a problem after some time.

- magnification/objective diameter is too much of a personal decision and i won't go there. the first author seems to prefer 8x32, which is likely fine during the day. i tend to hunt alot at dawn/dusk, and wouldn't go below 50mm objective diameter. currently i really like my 8x50 for both size and weight (vs. my old 8x56)

the one big question (for me): when you want to go the opto-electronic way, why not walk it entirely? look at this beast (Sony DEV-50V digital recording binoculars are smaller, lighter, and weatherproof - SlashGear)
sony-bino-3-150x100.jpg


* variable magnification from about 1-25x
* ccd allows for light amplification
* image stabilisation for those that admit that 10x and more magnification is too much if only held by hand/unsupported
* only 900g

now please combine that unit with an integrated rangefinder. then you do have rangefinder, bino, spotter and night vision (to some extend) in one unit.

given that the sony costs about 2k (which is comparable to the swaro binos), integrate the rangefinder (+ ballistic software, as the computational power is already there anyway) and might get away with about 3.5k in total.

now that's what i would consider a deal: light amplification, image stabilisation, binos, spotter, rangefinder, ballistics ... everything in one package.
and given that sony already has everything in its unit besides the rangefinder (+ ballistic software), it seems more than doable.
 
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SRSDriver - yes perhaps I have. But still, a valid question remains; are they making the measurements and resulting solution consistently and accurately?
 
Ok, since we are looking for the optimal device here - here is what I think would be good...

One device - OK, I will agree with binocular as the "device"

Needs to have:
Top of the line Ballistics calculator using Point Mass solver - and the ability to make calibration adjustments off line - ie, on the desktop
Range finder with small beam divergence, reliable reading out to 2K
Environmental data collection that is calibrated to NIST standards
GPS to automatically identify coordinates
Electronic compass to determine heading
Wind reading at the device
Waterproof
Shock resistant
Light weight
High Optical Quality
Long battery life
All settings stored when batteries removed
Price under $1000
 
A few thoughts.

First, a spectacularly written thread. I don't think there's even a misspelling.

I would love to take credit for this but my wife, and English major, edits all of my long, article form posts. It is pretty easy to spot her work as my spelling is atrocious and my sentences structure tends to wonder into long, convoluted, and indeciperable ramblings. Incidentally, at some point these article posts, of which there must now be at least 30, mostly reviews and Shot show reports, with a few commentaries thrown in, will be finding their way onto SH at some point in the near, or not so near future, in article form in an archive. I have unfortunately not had the time between my 9-5 and some side work I am doing to do much other than barely keep up with whats going on here lately. I think that Frank is in the same boat schedule wise.

SRSDriver - yes perhaps I have. But still, a valid question remains; are they making the measurements and resulting solution consistently and accurately?

Well that is the million dollar question isn't it. I would sure like to know the answer. If they do than spotting a target a long way off and putting an accurate shot on it quickly sure just got a whole lot easier didn't it.

Top of the line Ballistics calculator using Point Mass solver - and the ability to make calibration adjustments off line - ie, on the desktop
Range finder with small beam divergence, reliable reading out to 2K
Environmental data collection that is calibrated to NIST standards
GPS to automatically identify coordinates
Electronic compass to determine heading
Wind reading at the device
Waterproof
Shock resistant
Light weight
High Optical Quality
Long battery life
All settings stored when batteries removed
Price under $1000

With the possible exception of the wind meter I think that you will get this in the not to distant future depending on what you consider "high optical quality." 5 years maybe? Rangefinder tech has been moving very fast.
 
here is another thought ...

Industry standardized interface between the binoculars and the scope. So that the scope can contain the software to use the data to engadge moving targets and adjust the POA as it relates to POI and the calculated ballistic solution. Since there are already multiple vendors working on the in-the-scope solution, why not make that part more simple - just take the output from the ballistics solution provider - and use that solution to determine POA and mark movers? This would also be a side benefit in reducing the size / weight of the rifle mounted system while still providing the scope based functionality that is specific to the scope.
 
Leica has had a reputation for being the best going back many many years but I can't afford their prices. That's why I play the lottery every weekend so I can plan what I would buy if I win. This would be tops on my list.