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Gunsmithing Lathe selection

Smokin7s

Lawyer, Astronaut, Pathological Liar
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Minuteman
Jan 5, 2020
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Oklahoma
Hey guys looking for a lathe for barrel work. I’m considering a new 1440 grizzly gunsmithing with Dro and it already has a spider built on tail stock. I’m really not wanting to spend that but for the money it seems like the best option and I don’t really know where to look for used. Is there any 12-14x36-28 lathe I should be considering? Not gonna be used every day let’s say one barrel a month.
 
I highly recommend finding an older clausing colchester 1340 or 1550 and adding an accurite 3 axis dro. Then get one of their lead screw encoders on the third axis. Makes threading a breeze and I think easier than the travadial.
Where does a fella look on a used market, market place has been a big time disappointment
 
The older Jet 12" & 14" lathes are a good option too, if you're looking at the used market. They have 1.5" spindle bores, which is a big requirement for me (although bigger is better, but 1.5" is minimum IMO if you plan to do barrel work).

The Jet lathes came in both belt drive and gear head versions - the belt drive was quieter and smoother, but the gear head versions were definitely more convenient for speed changes. Mine is a belt drive version, so I don't change speeds as often as I probably would otherwise.

BUT - a good option for any lathe (or mill) for easy speed changes is a 3 phase motor and a VFD. When set up well, the VFD can allow you to not only change speeds, but stop and reverse quickly. That can be a really handy feature for threading. I've seen a lot of guys walk away from a potential purchase because the machine came with a 3 phase motor, not realizing how much of a benefit it can be. Just something to keep in mind.
 
The difference between a new grizzley and a used lathe is that they will deliver the grizzley!

You will spend many hours and perhaps have to drive many miles to find a used lathe and have to pick it up and deliver yourself.... I crossed this bridge years ago and went with the new grizzley and am glad I did.
 
Is the grizzly your shopping for the $6,495 model?
 
Hey guys looking for a lathe for barrel work. I’m considering a new 1440 grizzly gunsmithing with Dro and it already has a spider built on tail stock. I’m really not wanting to spend that but for the money it seems like the best option and I don’t really know where to look for used. Is there any 12-14x36-28 lathe I should be considering? Not gonna be used every day let’s say one barrel a month.


If it were me:

When I went to work for Nesika/Dakota Arms 20 years ago, we had to wait almost a year for our CNC turning center to do barrel work. As an interim fix, I used the shop's Hardinge HLV tool room lathe. Threading on a machine like a Hardinge will compel you to throw every other manual lathe into a lake to promote fish habitat. They are awesome.

So long as your work statement doesn't demand a bigger machine with a longer bed or bigger spindle bore, your golden. I made a lot of money for the company on that thing. You will pay for it, but like a good divorce attorney, they are worth every penny.

Good luck.
 
If it were me:

When I went to work for Nesika/Dakota Arms 20 years ago, we had to wait almost a year for our CNC turning center to do barrel work. As an interim fix, I used the shop's Hardinge HLV tool room lathe. Threading on a machine like a Hardinge will compel you to throw every other manual lathe into a lake to promote fish habitat. They are awesome.

So long as your work statement doesn't demand a bigger machine with a longer bed or bigger spindle bore, your golden. I made a lot of money for the company on that thing. You will pay for it, but like a good divorce attorney, they are worth every penny.

Good luck.
Lol my cousin has the sharp with the 1.3 but a 40k dollar lathe scares ne
 
The difference between a new grizzley and a used lathe is that they will deliver the grizzley!

You will spend many hours and perhaps have to drive many miles to find a used lathe and have to pick it up and deliver yourself.... I crossed this bridge years ago and went with the new grizzley and am glad I did.

Yeah, but at the end of the day you're stuck with a Grizzly - the bottom end of the lathe quality spectrum. And you'll have spent $5K-7K on it.

Grizzly isn't complete trash, but keep in mind their smaller models are the same lathes Harbor Freight used to sell. That's called a clue.
Also, they're local to me, I used to buy some tooling from them, and one of my first lathes was a Grizzly, so I'm not just being snobby or bashing something I don't know. I even interviewed with them way back at the start of my engineering career - to this day I'm so glad I didn't take that position.
 
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That's what I bought PM1440GT with DRO and I'm very happy with it . My first lathe was an old beat up Sheldon that got me started .
That’s basically a grizzly too right just different paint scheme? And without the spider on the end
 
Some ideas in this:


Thank you,
MrSmith
 
I don’t really know where to look for used.
Old 'Merican iron is an option but getting tougher to find.
Depending where you are geographically, they can be scarce, or common... where I am in the SE, it's a machine desert- in the NE, and N central (former manuf hotspots) they're much more common. You need to know at least basics on how to evaluate the machines to be sure you're not buying scrap metal.

I bought both of mine (Sheldon, SB) off CL but it took patience and jumping on them when they became available as the good ones don't last (at a reasonable price, anyway). SB's in particular are usually "overpriced" because they fit home use perfectly- easily broken down/set up in a basement, plus a collector following so high demand.
 
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Alright fellas I purchased a lathe who sells high quality tooling I’m tired of the cheap Amazon junk I’ve been using are their brands to look for or any brands/sellers to avoid
 
Sorry about that atrocity of a run on sentence, I was sidetracked.
 
Looking at these
 

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Haas the cnc company is now selling a line of tooling. I just bought some for my cnc lathe and it's good quality and a variety of inserts for different material. MSC has a good selection as well.
Shars is the bottom of the list as is Grizzly tooling
 
If you want it quickly then you're going to have to settle for used. I've looked several times over the last couple of years and it seems that "on backorder" or "awaiting arrival" is the same wherever I looked.
 
I have a pm1440 and a heavy 10. I sold my hardinge to finance my shop. They are superior. Everything else feels cheap compared.....but you can do good enough work on a machine like mine....just smaller cuts and slower threading.

I'll second the ar warner advice. Great stuff if you're not at carbide speed.
 
I'll second the ar warner advice. Great stuff if you're not at carbide speed.

A common misconception about carbide is that you have to run at higher speeds to use it. You don't, at least not with modern carbide insert tooling.

I started off with HSS tooling because of that same bad advice, and used it long enough to learn very well how to sharpen it and make whatever shapes I need - but then I discovered good carbide inserts and almost never touch HSS any more. Even an old lathe like your SB Heavy 10 goes plenty fast enough to use carbide insert tooling, and there's no time wasted in sharpening HSS all the time.

You can get polished carbide inserts for aluminum cutting that are razor sharp, like a good HSS tool but with built in rake, and those work very well for finish cuts on most steels as well. And of course the more common unpolished inserts work well for heavier steel cuts.

Just avoid the cheap brazed carbide tools unless you have a diamond wheel set up to sharpen them; they are mostly junk.
 
I have quite a bit of carbide and a diamond tool grinder. For a manual machine it's really hard to best the surface finish of properly ground hss and the warner inserts just make it too easy.....specifically for threading.
 
I need to school myself more on carbide grades/composition.
For some reason I've yet to figure out (no doubt type of carbide), both the standup and laydown carbide partial profile inserts leave me with substantial chatter on the threads. Full profile- smooth as a baby's... Plus, ya just can't beat the perfectly rounded crests you get with the full profile.

For relatively low home shop use, the Warner HSS are a good value. May seem a bit pricey, but unlike carbide with a little skill you can sharpen them back to new like any other HSS cutter.
 
I have quite a bit of carbide and a diamond tool grinder. For a manual machine it's really hard to best the surface finish of properly ground hss and the warner inserts just make it too easy.....specifically for threading.

Compared to traditional carbide, I agree. But have you tried the polished carbide inserts for aluminum with the ground sharp edges? They provide a finish every bit as good as a well sharpened HSS tool, but without wear or the sharpening time. You can find them for most styles of inserts; worth a try if you (or anyone else here) haven't used them. Don't use them for heavy stock removal in steel, they'll chip, but for finish cuts they're great - I'm getting beautiful finishes in O1 tool steel and all types of stainless, if that tells you anything.

Caution is warranted of course - they're sharp like a good HSS tool and will cut you open pretty easy, speaking from experience.

Same goes for the aluminum-only carbide end mills that are available now - they leave amazing finishes, better than I ever got with HSS end mills.

Some of the tooling that has become more commonplace in the last 5-6 years or so is really a step above what we had before. Well worth looking into for those who haven't.

An example of the inserts I'm talking about:
CCGT-09T304-AK101-CARBIDE-INSERT.jpg



pl22081106-scgt_uncoated_square_carbide_inserts_sgct120408_with_high_polished_surface.jpg
 
I need to school myself more on carbide grades/composition.
For some reason I've yet to figure out (no doubt type of carbide), both the standup and laydown carbide partial profile inserts leave me with substantial chatter on the threads. Full profile- smooth as a baby's... Plus, ya just can't beat the perfectly rounded crests you get with the full profile.

For relatively low home shop use, the Warner HSS are a good value. May seem a bit pricey, but unlike carbide with a little skill you can sharpen them back to new like any other HSS cutter.

About that thread chatter - are you feeding in with the compound set at 29-29.5°, or straight in with the cross slide? Some people get away with just using the cross slide, but the main reason for using the compound at that angle is to eliminate chatter.
 
I don't have a reason to mess with carbide for threading...I get long life and great finish from hss. There's zero reason for me to change unless I go to a machine that can thread faster than I can now.

I'm a user of carbide for bulk stock removal.

It all works....but if a guy is asking for tooling advice as a rook on a manual machine, starting the threading game with carbide is going to be a frustrating and expensive intro.
 
I don't have a reason to mess with carbide for threading...I get long life and great finish from hss. There's zero reason for me to change unless I go to a machine that can thread faster than I can now.

I'm a user of carbide for bulk stock removal.

It all works....but if a guy is asking for tooling advice as a rook on a manual machine, starting the threading game with carbide is going to be a frustrating and expensive intro.
I ordered the sandavik(?) exact thread tool and tool holder my mentor uses them exclusively he showed me the speeds they work well at so that’s covered and he’s getting me a good wheel set up to sharpen what I need to make out of my existing hss
 
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It all works....but if a guy is asking for tooling advice as a rook on a manual machine, starting the threading game with carbide is going to be a frustrating and expensive intro.

You know, I've got no problem if a guy just prefers HSS, and many old timers do for familiarity's sake if nothing else. But this line above is flat out wrong, and bad advice.

Someone new starting out isn't likely going to be using the old school carbide junk that you're probably used to. I'm guessing mostly brazed carbide and old school negative rake insert tools that require heavy cuts and higher speeds to work well - but we don't have to work with that stuff any more.
They're more likely to buy one of the many lathe tool kits on Amazon or Ebay that have a bunch of different carbide insert tools, and they'll discover that if they use decent carbide, it'll do everything the old timers say you need HSS for, but it'll do it better and easier without the frustration of wearing out cutting edges in the middle of a job.

And this is more true for threading than any other lathe operation. Do you spend much time threading hardened steel of any type? Or stainless or titanium? Maybe an aftermarket pistol barrel, for example? That sort of thing was why I quit using HSS way back when I first got into carbide. I got tired of stopping to re-sharpen a HSS threading tool because the hardened stainless pistol barrels I was threading were wearing out the cutting edges too fast. And of course every sharpening meant picking up the threads again and adjusting to get back where I was to finish the cut. A complete waste of time.

Enter carbide insert tooling - I've been using this threading tool for about 10 years now, and am only on my second insert. It cuts as well as a HSS theading tool, with NO frustration, counter to your claim. In fact it's so much easier to work with because it just doesn't wear out. I even use it for all sorts of grooving and chamfering operations too - not what it was intended for, but it works great anyway.

ntriy0Bl.jpg


The only thing a rookie lathe operator really needs to know about carbide is not to bump the tip of the tool, and not to spin it backwards, because it'll chip. Other than that, everything about it with modern inserts is just easier than HSS, and it's misleading to claim otherwise to someone coming here for advice.
 
You know, I've got no problem if a guy just prefers HSS, and many old timers do for familiarity's sake if nothing else. But this line above is flat out wrong, and bad advice.

Someone new starting out isn't likely going to be using the old school carbide junk that you're probably used to. I'm guessing mostly brazed carbide and old school negative rake insert tools that require heavy cuts and higher speeds to work well - but we don't have to work with that stuff any more.
They're more likely to buy one of the many lathe tool kits on Amazon or Ebay that have a bunch of different carbide insert tools, and they'll discover that if they use decent carbide, it'll do everything the old timers say you need HSS for, but it'll do it better and easier without the frustration of wearing out cutting edges in the middle of a job.

And this is more true for threading than any other lathe operation. Do you spend much time threading hardened steel of any type? Or stainless or titanium? Maybe an aftermarket pistol barrel, for example? That sort of thing was why I quit using HSS way back when I first got into carbide. I got tired of stopping to re-sharpen a HSS threading tool because the hardened stainless pistol barrels I was threading were wearing out the cutting edges too fast. And of course every sharpening meant picking up the threads again and adjusting to get back where I was to finish the cut. A complete waste of time.

Enter carbide insert tooling - I've been using this threading tool for about 10 years now, and am only on my second insert. It cuts as well as a HSS theading tool, with NO frustration, counter to your claim. In fact it's so much easier to work with because it just doesn't wear out. I even use it for all sorts of grooving and chamfering operations too - not what it was intended for, but it works great anyway.

ntriy0Bl.jpg


The only thing a rookie lathe operator really needs to know about carbide is not to bump the tip of the tool, and not to spin it backwards, because it'll chip. Other than that, everything about it with modern inserts is just easier than HSS, and it's misleading to claim otherwise to someone coming here for advice.
You assumptions are wrong. I have tooling from hss blanks through carbide and into diamond. My advice is from the experience of a guy who has to buy his own tools and get himself dialed in. If I tell a guy to buy carbide cause it's the best way to learn...and that poor bastard goes to try to pick up a thread....and that's a skill we all had to practice, the hss will NEVER break. Perhaps he's learning to set a stop on the end of a thread and backs up just a touch....shit, now we're down two pieces. Perhaps he's cutting metric and doesn't back out enough before reversing.

Like I said, carbide has its spot, but for a beginning lathe machinist....it can be very frustrating and expensive where hss is simply cheap and forgiving... and will teach you to grind useful profiles. This conversation went from "what kind of cheap lathe should I buy, to what tooling should he use to try machining titanium and hardened steel.

This poor guy still has his training wheels on and I am telling him how to get started in the fundamentals and you've got him building shit for nasa.
 
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I am not a machinist, did go to school for it not too long ago. I kind of agree with Yonderling. From a learning perspective, yea learning to shape and maintain HSS is a valuable skill.

Most of the people going through school are going to end up as button pushers and/or programers. Not a whole lot of shaping or even using HSS in the CNC world.

But the reality is today, time is money and its hard to beat carbide tooling and inserts for speed, accuracy and ease of use. While my classmates were dicking with a grinder trying to make a threading tool, I threw in the $20 ebay threading tool with carbide insert and was done threading before they even got their tool shaped.

Its kind of like learning on iron sights. You can make the arguement thats where you need to start, but like the military today, they go strait to optics becuase they are just as reliable and its much easier to teach people to hit what they are aiming at with an optic.
 
You assumptions are wrong. I have tooling from hss blanks through carbide and into diamond. My advice is from the experience of a guy who has to buy his own tools and get himself dialed in. If I tell a guy to buy carbide cause it's the best way to learn...and that poor bastard goes to try to pick up a thread....and that's a skill we all had to practice, the hss will NEVER break. Perhaps he's learning to set a stop on the end of a thread and backs up just a touch....shit, now we're down two pieces. Perhaps he's cutting metric and doesn't back out enough before reversing.

Like I said, carbide has its spot, but for a beginning lathe machinist....it can be very frustrating and expensive where hss is simply cheap and forgiving... and will teach you to grind useful profiles. This conversation went from "what kind of cheap lathe should I buy, to what tooling should he use to try machining titanium and hardened steel.

This poor guy still has his training wheels on and I am telling him how to get started in the fundamentals and you've got him building shit for nasa.

You're trying to make this an argument about your opinion vs mine, and getting defensive about your way being best for everyone. That's not what this is about; it's about giving good advice to the OP who stated he wants to figure out tooling as well. I don't care what you personally use, I care about the accuracy of the advice given out here, and some of what you said may have been true once but is not any more.

"This poor guy still has his training wheels on and I am telling him how to get started in the fundamentals and you've got him building shit for nasa."

This quote right here explains a lot about what kind of machining you do and the recommendations you're making. The only reason stainless and hardened steel seem like "nasa shit" is because you're stuck in the stone age with HSS and don't realize that with carbide insert tooling, those metals cut easily too, just like using HSS on soft metals. Those materials are common in the gun world now for most of us; they're not some special aerospace stuff.

This is a gun forum, so presumably people here want to machine gun related parts - and that includes the metals I mentioned above. We're not still back in the days of old shotguns and bolt action 22's with soft and easily machinable steel; a lot of gun parts these days require carbide to cut it.

- I mentioned Glock barrels earlier. Most modern pistol barrels are made of either some sort of hardened stainless or nitrided chromoly; both are difficult to cut with HSS but no problem at all with carbide. A carbide insert tool like my earlier pic is a requirement for good threading work on these barrels.

- Speaking of modern pistols, the same applies for mill work on the slides - carbide is needed there too.

- There's a good chance the OP or anyone else reading this has considered building their own F1 suppressor; using stainless is practically a requirement for that, and titanium is a common choice as well. Both can be cut with HSS of course, but frequent sharpening or very slow lathe speeds are required. Carbide insert tooling makes these materials very easy to work with, in comparison.

- Just this evening I threaded the OD of a Lee sizing die (making a trim die for the Dillon trimmer); the surface of those dies is case hardened and HSS just doesn't work for that. Trimming the base of a die, or other modifications are all within the realm of possibility for anyone on this forum with a lathe, and the work is easy with carbide but seems nearly impossible with HSS.

Those are just a few examples why carbide tooling is the way to go these days. I already pointed out the type of inserts above that will give the same or better results as HSS for finish cuts too, and any carbide insert can be resharpened with a cheap handheld diamond sharpening "stone".

Your concerns about breaking the tip of a carbide insert are overblown. It happens even to experienced machinists sometimes - but so what? We're talking about an insert that costs $2-$5 usually, and you just damaged one of the 3 or 4 tips on that insert. So flip it around and get back to cutting - it's not a big deal and the "frustration and expense" you claim is far less than the effort of constantly resharpening HSS tooling.

I really don't care if some old school machinist wants to continue using HSS tools; it makes no difference to me. But I hope this info above is helpful to the new guys trying to figure out tooling for their lathe or mill.
 
- There's a good chance the OP or anyone else reading this has considered building their own F1 suppressor; using stainless is practically a requirement for that, and titanium is a common choice as well. Both can be cut with HSS of course, but frequent sharpening or very slow lathe speeds are required. Carbide insert tooling makes these materials very easy to work with, in comparison.
Got my first lathe a couple/few years ago. Craftsman 12x36 from the 50's. It came with a pile of old junk that I cleaned up and got myself acquainted with.

First "project" was proving to myself that I could, in fact, build my own suppressor. All HSS (because I didnt/still don't entirely know better) tooling, and the OG Atlas manual for tool shape reference. 17-4 SS and Ti. No, I did not bore the tubes, Ti was available in tube vs bar stock.

Lucked out on a now closed Form 1 forum, where there was a great thread on tooling. Nick (ECCO Machine) gave a great explanation and almost instructional, on carbide inserts. Been trying to re-tool all my shit since. I've also got an Atlas 10x48 and 10x54 that are currently being transformed into 1 nice old machine.

Don't so much mind the older iron, but the newer tooling is the cat's meow.

I do agree with statements I've read in the past though; knowing how to grind and use HSS tooling is still a good skill to have.
 
Yonder....my advice is to the op and spec, I don't disagree with what you're saying, but nobody buys a lathe on Monday and starts on inconel or Ti on Tuesday. My advice is to learn on hss because you will bust up carbide in the beginning of your learning curve. Picking up a thread or even setting square can bust the carbide with very little pressure or even the slightest reverse rotation....where hss lets the tool find home without any trouble. Most guys who have a lathe will have a grinder, but they may not have MSC next door.
 
Yonder....my advice is to the op and spec, I don't disagree with what you're saying, but nobody buys a lathe on Monday and starts on inconel or Ti on Tuesday. My advice is to learn on hss because you will bust up carbide in the beginning of your learning curve. Picking up a thread or even setting square can bust the carbide with very little pressure or even the slightest reverse rotation....where hss lets the tool find home without any trouble. Most guys who have a lathe will have a grinder, but they may not have MSC next door.
I in fact did order high end inserts on Tuesday lol but I’m pretty familiar with hss
 
I do agree with statements I've read in the past though; knowing how to grind and use HSS tooling is still a good skill to have.

Agree 100%, and said so earlier in this thread as well. It shouldn't go unnoticed that the skill learned in grinding HSS tooling applies to grinding carbide tooling as well.
 
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Yonder....my advice is to the op and spec, I don't disagree with what you're saying, but nobody buys a lathe on Monday and starts on inconel or Ti on Tuesday. My advice is to learn on hss because you will bust up carbide in the beginning of your learning curve. Picking up a thread or even setting square can bust the carbide with very little pressure or even the slightest reverse rotation....where hss lets the tool find home without any trouble. Most guys who have a lathe will have a grinder, but they may not have MSC next door.

Nah, most guys are able to learn to use carbide tooling without as much trouble as you. And if/when they do chip an insert, they don't make a lot of drama about having to switch it around to the next cutting edge. It's just not that big of a deal, especially when the typical carbide inserts cost so much less than your favored AH Warner HSS inserts (which IMO are one of the dumber ideas in the tooling world - insert tooling that costs more money AND doesn't last as long.)
 
FWIW:

When I first learned to thread on a lathe, it wooped me good when a shoulder was involved. I got good at killing tools, shear pins, etc... To solve it, I spent about $40.00. (25 or so years ago)

I went to a steel supply house and bought a 12' stick of 12L, hauled it to work, and spent a weekend doing nothing but threading it over and over again. Right around the time of becoming absolutely sick of doing it is when I felt like I had the muscle memory to run the spindle at the rpm the tooling wanted to be at.

A tip that'll help: Buy an insert designed for hard turning. They have a sharper edge prep than stuff for mild steel. It results in less tool pressure which is something a manual machine begs for when you are trying to chase down a pitch diameter to get a good thread fit. They don't work harden the threads either, as they actually cut instead of ripping material by plasticizing it. You'll replace them a little more often, but it's worth it.

Good luck.
 
You're trying to make this an argument about your opinion vs mine, and getting defensive about your way being best for everyone. That's not what this is about; it's about giving good advice to the OP who stated he wants to figure out tooling as well. I don't care what you personally use, I care about the accuracy of the advice given out here, and some of what you said may have been true once but is not any more.

"This poor guy still has his training wheels on and I am telling him how to get started in the fundamentals and you've got him building shit for nasa."

This quote right here explains a lot about what kind of machining you do and the recommendations you're making. The only reason stainless and hardened steel seem like "nasa shit" is because you're stuck in the stone age with HSS and don't realize that with carbide insert tooling, those metals cut easily too, just like using HSS on soft metals. Those materials are common in the gun world now for most of us; they're not some special aerospace stuff.

This is a gun forum, so presumably people here want to machine gun related parts - and that includes the metals I mentioned above. We're not still back in the days of old shotguns and bolt action 22's with soft and easily machinable steel; a lot of gun parts these days require carbide to cut it.

- I mentioned Glock barrels earlier. Most modern pistol barrels are made of either some sort of hardened stainless or nitrided chromoly; both are difficult to cut with HSS but no problem at all with carbide. A carbide insert tool like my earlier pic is a requirement for good threading work on these barrels.

- Speaking of modern pistols, the same applies for mill work on the slides - carbide is needed there too.

- There's a good chance the OP or anyone else reading this has considered building their own F1 suppressor; using stainless is practically a requirement for that, and titanium is a common choice as well. Both can be cut with HSS of course, but frequent sharpening or very slow lathe speeds are required. Carbide insert tooling makes these materials very easy to work with, in comparison.

- Just this evening I threaded the OD of a Lee sizing die (making a trim die for the Dillon trimmer); the surface of those dies is case hardened and HSS just doesn't work for that. Trimming the base of a die, or other modifications are all within the realm of possibility for anyone on this forum with a lathe, and the work is easy with carbide but seems nearly impossible with HSS.

Those are just a few examples why carbide tooling is the way to go these days. I already pointed out the type of inserts above that will give the same or better results as HSS for finish cuts too, and any carbide insert can be resharpened with a cheap handheld diamond sharpening "stone".

Your concerns about breaking the tip of a carbide insert are overblown. It happens even to experienced machinists sometimes - but so what? We're talking about an insert that costs $2-$5 usually, and you just damaged one of the 3 or 4 tips on that insert. So flip it around and get back to cutting - it's not a big deal and the "frustration and expense" you claim is far less than the effort of constantly resharpening HSS tooling.

I really don't care if some old school machinist wants to continue using HSS tools; it makes no difference to me. But I hope this info above is helpful to the new guys trying to figure out tooling for their lathe or mill.

Spot on, brother. I never bothered to learn how to grind HSS bits. Instead I invested my time in learning how to run the machines using carbide inserts.

I use carbide trigon WNMG inserts for roughing. It has 6 cutting edges. Just recently I finished these AR15 barrels for the TX Juniors from unturned blanks donated by Shilen. Still on the same insert.

For finishing I use carbide VCGTs, CCGTs or the DCGTs.

For crowning with whatever form, straight, recessed, chamfered or not, I use the VCGTs 220.5.

For threading I use laydown inserts, 16ER AG60s On my 1440ev I thread with the compound at 34 rpms. On the 1236 VFD driven I thread at 300 rpms using left hand holders and 16IR AG60 bits running reverse. If I thread with a thread relief I use old 1024 with VFD. I can run at whatever speed I want, the proximity sensor will stop the carriage plunging in with the cross slide. I mostly use this on AR15 barrels using the original M16 barrel extension where a thread relief is needed. Plunging straight is because I have the compound set semi pemanently at the same taper as the 223 reamer for drill/bore/ream method.

All inserts are the ones cut polished, uncoated for aluminum. They are all indeed razor sharp.

Three benchrest gunsmiths, and a tool and die maker mentored me, I have no formal training on running the machines. I don't claim to be a machinist, nor a gunsmith, just a hobbyist enjoying my retirement helping the juniors, some friends, and my brother. I've done 7 benchrest barrels for my brother.

Most of our service rifle barrels we use the competition barrel extensions that are 0.300 longer and have 20 TPI thread as opposed to the M16 16 TPI.

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I use carbide trigon WNMG inserts for roughing. It has 6 cutting edges. Just recently I finished these AR15 barrels for the TX Juniors from unturned blanks donated by Shilen. Still on the same insert.

For finishing I use carbide VCGTs, CCGTs or the DCGTs.

For crowning with whatever form, straight, recessed, chamfered or not, I use the VCGTs 220.5.

For threading I use laydown inserts, 16ER AG60s On my 1440ev I thread with the compound at 34 rpms. On the 1236 VFD driven I thread at 300 rpms using left hand holders and 16IR AG60 bits running reverse. If I thread with a thread relief I use old 1024 with VFD. I can run at whatever speed I want, the proximity sensor will stop the carriage plunging in with the cross slide.

I've been meaning to try those WNMG inserts. Probably should go ahead and just order a holder and pack of inserts; they're cheap enough. I actually still use those TT style inserts for most of my heavy turning/roughing, and any hard turning for things like steel sizing dies, etc. They're old tech, but work pretty well and can give decent finishes even on a low speed older lathe.

+1 on those *CGT style inserts for finishing, like my pic above. Love those things. I think I use that same laydown threading insert # too, but it's been long enough since I ordered it that I've forgotten.

Do you really thread at 34 rpm, or is that a typo? I'm not knocking it if it works, just curious since it's so slow. Most of my threading up to a shoulder with 24 or 28 tpi threads I do at 300 rpm, or at 800-1200 if there's a lot of room after the thread. For coarse threads I stick to 300 though; that carriage gets moving pretty fast at 800 with something like a 13 tpi thread, lol.

Wish I had a VFD setup like that. It's on my list, just need one of those "round tooits".
 
That's the lowest the VFD runs it, 34 rpms. Finish is real nice with carbide for aluminum laydown inserts.

I could run faster, there is really no need with the made for aluminum inserts.

Have VFD on all 3 lathes I use for barrel works. The 1440ev came with a factory installed 7HP VFD feeding the 5HP motor. The 1236 and 1024 VFDs run 2HP motors. All lathes are Taiwanese made.

The DRO on the 1236 died after a year, re-installed the TravADial

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