Sidearms & Scatterguns Learning to shoot with RDS

[Jmccracken1214]

Excuse my stupidity on this, recently topped most of my pistols with optics with the eagerness to learn and get better with them. Im pretty decent and fast with iron sights but I want to get that way with the RDS too.
I took my g19 and p10f out today to zero at 25 yards and couldnt quiet keep consistent groups at that distance using the rmr. Maybe Im moving my head around in between shots, shifting the dot?

Anyways, when you guys are zeroed and good to go, when you aim, are you still holding the pistol so that the irons are also lined up or will they not be when using the red dot?

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I only use the front sight to help find the dot if I have trouble without it. Try both eyes open, some find it more natural.

If you can adjust brightness, keep it on lower setting so you have clean dot for aiming and not bloomed out.

 

[alamo5000]

This is just my experience, but if you are shooting with a dot, use that dot as your primary. Quit trying to translate it in your head.

For me I eventually started to slow way way down. I mean like really slow. I started to run a drill where I painted a 2 or 3 inch dot on my target and scored myself based on accuracy only. Zero speed involved. When doing this make sure you take special note about grip and so forth.

After a few mags of pure slow fire for accuracy it started to sink in. Since I shoot in my yard I did the two or three mags two or three days per week.

After that I started working on speed, draw and so forth. I'm not fast at all relatively speaking, but now when I draw it goes straight to the dot.

Edit: and remember to ONLY shoot the dot with both eyes open!

 

[Milf Dots]

Ignore the irons and stop trying to find the dot. The key is to have a clean enough and repeatable pistol presentation that the dot overlays the target, and the key to getting there is to practice drawing and presenting/pushing out toward target.

Painter's tape over the iron sights is one way to force the proper training. It sounds crazy but it works to slow down and do the above to really clean up one's presentation/push out to target. If done properly the end result will be getting on target faster with Dot than with irons.

Dot optics are more sensitive to correct presentation alignment to target than iron sights- hence the seemingly remedial training on draw stroke and presentation to target.

And as mentioned above- keep both eyes open at all times with dot optics.

In this first video the guy on the right talks about all the dry fire draw and presentations he practiced before he ever live fired with a Dot optic.

 

[alamo5000]

Here is another thing to think about. When doing the slow fire accuracy drill that I mentioned above pay attention to what happens to the dot during a firing sequence. You will find that a dot provides a lot of instant feedback to the shooter.

If your dot goes side to side during the trigger pull that can indicate finger placement need to be corrected.

If it goes at a 45 degree angle either to the left or right that can also indicate other errors.

During recoil pay attention to how your dot bounces. Does it go off to one side or the other? Does it dip down below the target after recoil? Ideally it will go up and back down to the target without a major correction needed.

The way the dot bounces (including when/where in the firing sequence it does it) can help diagnose and improve lots of problems.

 

[Milf Dots]

 

[gixxer822]

Ditch the back Ups. If you must have em do not slave the dot to the irons. You must be target focused, not sight focused to get the potential out of the system

 

[gamewarden]

Target focus is your friend. Work on developing your index from your draw. As others have suggested putting tape over the front lens will aide in this.

 

[SD Carpenter]

The best thing you can do as with everything else, is dry fire. Practice your draw/ pushing out and picking up your dot as fast as possible.with perfect presentation the dot should just appear naturally as your focusing on the target.

 

[Makinchips208]

Second this guy. Scott Jedlinski is great.

 

[308pirate]

A reflex sight shows you how little you actually know about shooting a handgun.

 

[308pirate]

Excuse my stupidity on this, recently topped most of my pistols with optics with the eagerness to learn and get better with them. Im pretty decent and fast with iron sights but I want to get that way with the RDS too.
I took my g19 and p10f out today to zero at 25 yards and couldnt quiet keep consistent groups at that distance using the rmr. Maybe Im moving my head around in between shots, shifting the dot?

Anyways, when you guys are zeroed and good to go, when you aim, are you still holding the pistol so that the irons are also lined up or will they not be when using the red dot?

Moving your head is not the issue.

You can't try to focus on the dot as if it were your front sight. You also need to learn to accept that you're going to see much more sight movement with an RDS than you ever did with irons. The pistol moves as much as it always did. Now you can see it though.

You have to ignore the iron sights on the gun, if they can be seen through the optic.

Finally, I have to ask: what exactly do you mean by "Im pretty decent and fast with iron sights"?

What your bill drill time? A blake drill with all A's? What about El Presidente, what kind of a hit factor can you do on it?

 

[Forrest84]

Ignore the irons and stop trying to find the dot. The key is to have a clean enough and repeatable pistol presentation that the dot overlays the target, and the key to getting there is to practice drawing and presenting/pushing out toward target.

Painter's tape over the iron sights is one way to force the proper training. It sounds crazy but it works to slow down and do the above to really clean up one's presentation/push out to target. If done properly the end result will be getting on target faster with Dot than with irons.

Dot optics are more sensitive to correct presentation alignment to target than iron sights- hence the seemingly remedial training on draw stroke and presentation to target.

And as mentioned above- keep both eyes open at all times with dot optics.

In this first video the guy on the right talks about all the dry fire draw and presentations he practiced before he ever live fired with a Dot optic.

This is pretty much how I transitioned to RDS this year. I tried like 5 years ago but was going about it all wrong

 

[LawnMM]

I highly recommend an actual RDS class. It's worth it.

Having said that, I find that with a good set of irons the dot winds up zeroed basically sitting on top of the front sight post.

I don't slave it, but if my irons are GTG at 25 and I zero the dot at 25 makes sense they line up that way.

However, I find because I'm making better use of the window, and I have the irons only high enough to barely peek over the RDS not stupid high halfway up the window suppressor height...

I usually wind up with the dot on target, and using almost the entire window. If I glance at the irons, the front post is slightly high because I'm using the dot and it's roughly centered in the window and I'm not sucking down low behind the pistol looking for the iron sights.

They're only there for emergencies at this point.

 

[Gustav7]

Excuse my stupidity on this, recently topped most of my pistols with optics with the eagerness to learn and get better with them. Im pretty decent and fast with iron sights but I want to get that way with the RDS too.
I took my g19 and p10f out today to zero at 25 yards and couldnt quiet keep consistent groups at that distance using the rmr. Maybe Im moving my head around in between shots, shifting the dot?

It's like going from shooting an open sighted 22 standing to shooting a scope rifle on 20x standing. Your vision and your brain now have focus and mental dexterity that they never did before. Our brains are amazing tools and we forget that our brain is doing a lot of the work for us sub-consciously when we use iron sights(or guns in general). We think we've gotten good at them but thats just your brain plateauing, only doing what it needs to achieve what you think you see.

When we throw in a red dot, what you're noticing is all the tiny imperfections of your draw, grip, presentation and sight alignment that didn't require your attention under the use of irons. People ALWAYS blame the red dot because they "were good at irons", but fail to realize thats its actually just the inconsistencies in their shooting (mine included). It's a blow to the ego.

This is why time and time again guys say that they shoot irons better after they have practiced with red dots, because it forces you and your brain to be more precise and consistent. And yes, you can achieve this with irons...but with red dots, it speeds this process up for almost everyone, or at least makes it glaringly more obvious.

Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. Like others have said, start slow and KNOW for sure what a good presentation and grip looks and feels like.