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Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
You will probably get more of a response posting this question in the Optics Forum... Just food for thought.
DK
You will probably get more of a response posting this question in the Optics Forum... Just food for thought.
DK
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
I don't have any personal experience, but FWIW the feedback I've read here to date has been that the scope is good quality, the mountings aren't. Dove tail fittings aren't well machined and the screws are cheap and soft.
Also, since the glass is different they shortened it by about an inch...so not an EXACT replica if you're a stickler
I'd like to eventually get one (with some good mounts)
I don't have any personal experience, but FWIW the feedback I've read here to date has been that the scope is good quality, the mountings aren't. Dove tail fittings aren't well machined and the screws are cheap and soft.
Also, since the glass is different they shortened it by about an inch...so not an EXACT replica if you're a stickler
I'd like to eventually get one (with some good mounts)
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Not a stickler for authenticity, just considering one of these for use on an 03A4 repro in vintage sniper matches. I'm more concerned with performance. I like the idea of an 8X optic, and the Leatherwood products I've seen have pretty good glass. I guess I'm curious about how well they hold zero and how well (true) they track.
HRF
Not a stickler for authenticity, just considering one of these for use on an 03A4 repro in vintage sniper matches. I'm more concerned with performance. I like the idea of an 8X optic, and the Leatherwood products I've seen have pretty good glass. I guess I'm curious about how well they hold zero and how well (true) they track.
HRF
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
the 03A4 scope is a different glass, its a Weaver 330 repro. the new ones are OK, I have one. I wanna get one of the USMC scopes too for another build.
the 03A4 scope is a different glass, its a Weaver 330 repro. the new ones are OK, I have one. I wanna get one of the USMC scopes too for another build.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hrfunk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not a stickler for authenticity, just considering one of these for use on an 03A4 repro in vintage sniper matches. I'm more concerned with performance. I like the idea of an 8X optic, and the Leatherwood products I've seen have pretty good glass. I guess I'm curious about how well they hold zero and how well (true) they track.
HRF </div></div>
Not to rain on your parade, but the 03A4 scope mounting system and the scope mounting system for a 8x USMC Unertl copy are totally different.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hrfunk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not a stickler for authenticity, just considering one of these for use on an 03A4 repro in vintage sniper matches. I'm more concerned with performance. I like the idea of an 8X optic, and the Leatherwood products I've seen have pretty good glass. I guess I'm curious about how well they hold zero and how well (true) they track.
HRF </div></div>
Not to rain on your parade, but the 03A4 scope mounting system and the scope mounting system for a 8x USMC Unertl copy are totally different.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
I used one at Camp Perry. The optic are clear and I could watch the mirage. Info I picked up: replace mount cross bolt with metric allen head caps crews, do not use the bases as hole spacing is not .562 and .860, shorted spring in the front mount so scope will slide easier. The micrometer adjustments are not as good as they should be. I was told that 2 divisions on the mount would give 1 minute of adjustment. I did so from 300 to 600 correction and it was close. I did not try to click right and left for wind. I made one correction into the wind and favored as conditions changed. There is a back lash issue when changing direction as best I can tell. I am considering making my own rear mount.
I used one at Camp Perry. The optic are clear and I could watch the mirage. Info I picked up: replace mount cross bolt with metric allen head caps crews, do not use the bases as hole spacing is not .562 and .860, shorted spring in the front mount so scope will slide easier. The micrometer adjustments are not as good as they should be. I was told that 2 divisions on the mount would give 1 minute of adjustment. I did so from 300 to 600 correction and it was close. I did not try to click right and left for wind. I made one correction into the wind and favored as conditions changed. There is a back lash issue when changing direction as best I can tell. I am considering making my own rear mount.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
I listed some of the short falls of the scope. On the positive side I would and may buy another one. The 1903 bolt cleared the scope. Getting correct bases is no problem or should fixing the clamp screw be. The back lash can be dealt with buy always moving in one direction to your zero, up would be obvious choice for elevation. I would recommend getting windage close then favoring. In a fish tailing condition I would favor rather than click. If it were not for the Chinese USMC scope I would not have made it to Camp Perry with the 1903. I hope to solve the problem with the rear mount. If I do the information will be put on the Hide.
I listed some of the short falls of the scope. On the positive side I would and may buy another one. The 1903 bolt cleared the scope. Getting correct bases is no problem or should fixing the clamp screw be. The back lash can be dealt with buy always moving in one direction to your zero, up would be obvious choice for elevation. I would recommend getting windage close then favoring. In a fish tailing condition I would favor rather than click. If it were not for the Chinese USMC scope I would not have made it to Camp Perry with the 1903. I hope to solve the problem with the rear mount. If I do the information will be put on the Hide.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Dan, does the scope come with it's own bases? Do you know the dimensions of these? I wonder if the height is out whether this could affect the click value of the scope you mentioned on the 1903A1 thread?
I have used the O and E repro bases from Steve Earle as these were the only bases I could find that gave the dimensions. They are within single figure thou's of the original base height.
Original USMC base heights were .233" (front) and .477" (rear).
The Steve Earle ones are .230" and .470" respectively.
Dan, does the scope come with it's own bases? Do you know the dimensions of these? I wonder if the height is out whether this could affect the click value of the scope you mentioned on the 1903A1 thread?
I have used the O and E repro bases from Steve Earle as these were the only bases I could find that gave the dimensions. They are within single figure thou's of the original base height.
Original USMC base heights were .233" (front) and .477" (rear).
The Steve Earle ones are .230" and .470" respectively.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Hi BasraBoy,
do you happen to know if the .233" & .477" (front & rear respectively) USMC base height figures are right for the win Model 70 (with medium-heavy barrel)? or are these figures based on the barrel contour of the 03 springfield, which I assume they originally would have been developed for?
BTW terrific work on that springfield project of yours
!
Hi BasraBoy,
do you happen to know if the .233" & .477" (front & rear respectively) USMC base height figures are right for the win Model 70 (with medium-heavy barrel)? or are these figures based on the barrel contour of the 03 springfield, which I assume they originally would have been developed for?
BTW terrific work on that springfield project of yours
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
G'day Mr Lara
The measurements on those blocks are specific to the M1903A1 (got them from Brophy's book).
As I understand it...the height of the blocks will be determined by the contour of the barrel/receiver and the spacing required to get the correct click value.
The measurements for the M1903A1 are for 1/4 MOA clicks using the Unertl x8
I'm not sure about the Model 70 but contact Steve Earle at Steve Earle Products as he makes a big selection of blocks for various US rifles. He can advise you better than I.
Thanks for the kind words on the Springfield...I really enjoyed that project and the rifle is a joy to shoot.
G'day Mr Lara
The measurements on those blocks are specific to the M1903A1 (got them from Brophy's book).
As I understand it...the height of the blocks will be determined by the contour of the barrel/receiver and the spacing required to get the correct click value.
The measurements for the M1903A1 are for 1/4 MOA clicks using the Unertl x8
I'm not sure about the Model 70 but contact Steve Earle at Steve Earle Products as he makes a big selection of blocks for various US rifles. He can advise you better than I.
Thanks for the kind words on the Springfield...I really enjoyed that project and the rifle is a joy to shoot.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
BasraBoy, The USMC 8X came with bases and screws. I did not use them as I had Earle case hardened bases. The comments I got from others at CP were that hole spacing is not correct. I will check dimensions and get back. The problem with the click value is most likely the thread pitch. Brian, I would guess the bases are not for the M70. Your are on track that you understand the M70 target has different barrel profiles. You can calculate base height differential. Measure receiver diameter and barrel diameter between base holes and divide by 2 to get radius from center of bore. Subtract the radius at the base from at the receiver and that should be how much taller the front base needs to be than the rear to provide a mounting surface parallel to the bore. What vintage is your M70. I feel the pre64 target was best balanced of the all.
BasraBoy, The USMC 8X came with bases and screws. I did not use them as I had Earle case hardened bases. The comments I got from others at CP were that hole spacing is not correct. I will check dimensions and get back. The problem with the click value is most likely the thread pitch. Brian, I would guess the bases are not for the M70. Your are on track that you understand the M70 target has different barrel profiles. You can calculate base height differential. Measure receiver diameter and barrel diameter between base holes and divide by 2 to get radius from center of bore. Subtract the radius at the base from at the receiver and that should be how much taller the front base needs to be than the rear to provide a mounting surface parallel to the bore. What vintage is your M70. I feel the pre64 target was best balanced of the all.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Just another comment on the HI-LUX USMC 8X scope. This scope should work well on a rifle zeroed for one distance. It is not limited to a 1903 springfield. I may put one on a Winchester HighWall. The scope should be great for any gun with Unertl/Lyman target bases. I payed $521.95 shipped for my scope from Optic Planet in Chicago.
Just another comment on the HI-LUX USMC 8X scope. This scope should work well on a rifle zeroed for one distance. It is not limited to a 1903 springfield. I may put one on a Winchester HighWall. The scope should be great for any gun with Unertl/Lyman target bases. I payed $521.95 shipped for my scope from Optic Planet in Chicago.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Just another comment on the HI-LUX USMC 8X scope. This scope should work well on a rifle zeroed for one distance. It is not limited to a 1903 springfield. I may put one on a Winchester HighWall. The scope should be great for any gun with Unertl/Lyman target bases. I payed $521.95 shipped for my scope from Optic Planet in Chicago.
Just another comment on the HI-LUX USMC 8X scope. This scope should work well on a rifle zeroed for one distance. It is not limited to a 1903 springfield. I may put one on a Winchester HighWall. The scope should be great for any gun with Unertl/Lyman target bases. I payed $521.95 shipped for my scope from Optic Planet in Chicago.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
hrfunk, I just noticed your comments. If I had an original A4 I do not think I would modify it. I have considered scoping an 03A3 with addition of target blocks like the USMC M1941. The rifle would not be legal for the CMP Vintage Sniper Rifle Match. It would make a great shooter just not conform to the original WWII ARMY and USMC sniper configurations.
hrfunk, I just noticed your comments. If I had an original A4 I do not think I would modify it. I have considered scoping an 03A3 with addition of target blocks like the USMC M1941. The rifle would not be legal for the CMP Vintage Sniper Rifle Match. It would make a great shooter just not conform to the original WWII ARMY and USMC sniper configurations.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Hi Boy's
+CPT-DAN @ the moment i'm still prospecting for a suitable mod70 action (and certainly will be a pre-64) however cant guarantee it will be clipslotted, or prewar etc but we're not overly spoilt for choice out here in AUS. Action wise do you know if there were any differences between the target & standard models (other than clip slot)?
Thanks for the info on calcuating the correct base height, thats how I would have gone about it had Steve not come through with the gold
(see below).
+BasraBoy, thanks for your PM, I contacted Steve Earle (as follows):
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Steve,
I’m currently looking to build a reproduction USMC Model 70 (pre-64) in .30-06 with a unertl USMC 8x combination telescope, and I’m looking to order some of your bases for this project.
Just wondering if you would happen to know which bases heights are required for the Unertl mounts/rings on the Winchester “medium-heavy” 24” target barrel & still acheive zero @ 100yards?
Any info would be most appreciated.
thanks
Regards
**********
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hi ******** -
The great Unertl chart lists a standard 1/4" block for the rear, and a B-70 block for the front. The B-70 is a long block with a hole spacing of 1.75". But it's only 1/4" high as well, and from my experience that has not been high enough. Generally we've been using C-70 on the front, which is higher by 1/16".
The bad news is that I'm all out of C-70 blocks at the moment! I'm going to be making more (a lot more...) in the next week or two. Anyway, the rear block is $12, the front is $16, and the set of 4 screws is $6. Shipping is $4. I'll try to remember to let you know when I have the C-70 blocks in stock.
Steve
</div></div>
Hi Boy's
+CPT-DAN @ the moment i'm still prospecting for a suitable mod70 action (and certainly will be a pre-64) however cant guarantee it will be clipslotted, or prewar etc but we're not overly spoilt for choice out here in AUS. Action wise do you know if there were any differences between the target & standard models (other than clip slot)?
Thanks for the info on calcuating the correct base height, thats how I would have gone about it had Steve not come through with the gold
(see below).+BasraBoy, thanks for your PM, I contacted Steve Earle (as follows):
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Steve,
I’m currently looking to build a reproduction USMC Model 70 (pre-64) in .30-06 with a unertl USMC 8x combination telescope, and I’m looking to order some of your bases for this project.
Just wondering if you would happen to know which bases heights are required for the Unertl mounts/rings on the Winchester “medium-heavy” 24” target barrel & still acheive zero @ 100yards?
Any info would be most appreciated.
thanks
Regards
**********
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hi ******** -
The great Unertl chart lists a standard 1/4" block for the rear, and a B-70 block for the front. The B-70 is a long block with a hole spacing of 1.75". But it's only 1/4" high as well, and from my experience that has not been high enough. Generally we've been using C-70 on the front, which is higher by 1/16".
The bad news is that I'm all out of C-70 blocks at the moment! I'm going to be making more (a lot more...) in the next week or two. Anyway, the rear block is $12, the front is $16, and the set of 4 screws is $6. Shipping is $4. I'll try to remember to let you know when I have the C-70 blocks in stock.
Steve
</div></div>
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Hi fella's,
found this chart that some might find handy.
the Win M70 "medium - heavy" target barrel is among those listed.
EDIT: Does anyone know to make the image in this post larger so the text can be seen more readily?
Hi fella's,
found this chart that some might find handy.
the Win M70 "medium - heavy" target barrel is among those listed.
EDIT: Does anyone know to make the image in this post larger so the text can be seen more readily?
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
BL400 - thanks for sharing that - useful info!
BL400 - thanks for sharing that - useful info!
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
BrianLara400 I just noticed your question. I am not sure, but will try to find out for you. I had a PRE64 target issued to me for marksmanship. That was long ago and I never had standard PRE64 to compare it to. Hated to turn M70 back in I thought they were better balanced than the 40X Remingtons. I believe the receiver ring had U.S. electro penciled above the serial number but not positive. A PRE64 target showed up at a small local gun show last fall. The gun dealer did not want to sell it at that time.
BrianLara400 I just noticed your question. I am not sure, but will try to find out for you. I had a PRE64 target issued to me for marksmanship. That was long ago and I never had standard PRE64 to compare it to. Hated to turn M70 back in I thought they were better balanced than the 40X Remingtons. I believe the receiver ring had U.S. electro penciled above the serial number but not positive. A PRE64 target showed up at a small local gun show last fall. The gun dealer did not want to sell it at that time.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CPT-DAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A PRE64 target showed up at a small local gun show last fall. The gun dealer did not want to sell it at that time. </div></div>
Out there in the U.S. roughly what would the asking price be for a M70 target(pre64), compared to the standard M70 (pre-64)? Actually do you see the clip slotted m70 actions by themselves come up for sale very regularly?
I can see I'm going to have alot of trouble trying to source a donor pre-64 rifle of any kind locally, and absolutely no chance of a pre64 target. Perhaps My importing the correct action from the US, would be the cheaper option. If I can't get the target one, does anyone know whats involved in milling the "clip-slot" into the standard action?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CPT-DAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A PRE64 target showed up at a small local gun show last fall. The gun dealer did not want to sell it at that time. </div></div>
Out there in the U.S. roughly what would the asking price be for a M70 target(pre64), compared to the standard M70 (pre-64)? Actually do you see the clip slotted m70 actions by themselves come up for sale very regularly?
I can see I'm going to have alot of trouble trying to source a donor pre-64 rifle of any kind locally, and absolutely no chance of a pre64 target. Perhaps My importing the correct action from the US, would be the cheaper option. If I can't get the target one, does anyone know whats involved in milling the "clip-slot" into the standard action?
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
The targets are running around 2100.00. If you find a pre war model 70 (sn <60000) they should be clipped slotted. The donor gun doesn't have to be a 30-06 as long as the bolt face is correct. As far as the clip slotting goes a competent machinist should be able to do it. I'd imagine the specs would be close to the Remington slot. Check the M40 build thread. They might have the machinist drawings posted.
The targets are running around 2100.00. If you find a pre war model 70 (sn <60000) they should be clipped slotted. The donor gun doesn't have to be a 30-06 as long as the bolt face is correct. As far as the clip slotting goes a competent machinist should be able to do it. I'd imagine the specs would be close to the Remington slot. Check the M40 build thread. They might have the machinist drawings posted.
Re: Leatherwood 8X USMC Sniper scope repro
Of course, I had forgotten that most (if not all) were clip slotted in the prewar years and you are also correct on the length. There was only one action length produced in the Mod 70 right through to about circa 1980 when they introduced a shorter version, more suitable for .222, .223 etc.
Found the clip slot diagram for the remington, Thanks
Of course, I had forgotten that most (if not all) were clip slotted in the prewar years and you are also correct on the length. There was only one action length produced in the Mod 70 right through to about circa 1980 when they introduced a shorter version, more suitable for .222, .223 etc.
Found the clip slot diagram for the remington, Thanks
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