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Rifle Scopes Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

96C

96C

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Aug 9, 2007
    1,227
    2,107
    Aust
    Hi guys,

    i have a leupold MK4 4.5-14x50mm illum TMR with 1/4 MOA adjustments on the M1 turrets.

    i bought this scope when i had an idea about what i wanted but not 100% about winding on targets.

    rang leupold tech support last night, spoke to a bloke and he said it wouldn't be a problem to convert it over to metric MIL adjustment and change the turrets (as this would then become simply the M1 turrets with <span style="font-weight: bold">.05 mil</span> as opposed to 1/4 MOA).

    $130 USD + $25 Intl postage back to Australia.

    the TMR reticle is obviously in Mils so it only makes sense to have MIL windage and elevation.


    if you have this scope, give them a call and look into it.

    paint is not an issue on the scope.

    Thanks,
    Jim
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Umm, Jim, I think you'll find that the clicks are 0.05 mil, that is, half of a tenth of a milliradian.

    That's a pretty fine adjustment, 0.18 inches per click at 100 yards, or half a centimeter at 100 meters.

    That may be fine for you - I just want to make sure you know what you're getting.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    DAMNIT i want to try a MIL/MIL scope, and i just traded my brand new in the box MK4 6.5-20X50 ILL TMR. could have had that just changed to MIL knobs.

    so they can put mrad adjustments on any MK4 scope?
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Too bad its not .1 MIL. I'll pass on the conversion until they offer something more useful.

     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Umm, Jim, I think you'll find that the clicks are 0.05 mil, that is, half of a tenth of a milliradian.</div></div>

    right! sorry mate, .05 Mil per click. which is fine with me. just work in two's first up. i asked for .1 mil and he said it was a no-go unfortunately.

    the normal MK4 M1 turrets are up to 15 MOA, as i find out more i'll let you guys know. but i'm OS at the moment, wont be sending it off for about a month.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    leupoldmk4lrtmoa.jpg


    for reference, this is the sight here with its current 1/4 MOA elev and windage knobs. they should stay in the M1 configuration however the dials and cogs inside will be switched out for .05 mil.

    money well spent considering the reticle is MIL

    Leupold TMR
    IMG_2094Acopy.jpg
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad its not .1 MIL. I'll pass on the conversion until they offer something more useful.

    </div></div>

    I cant understand why they dont do it. It can obviously be done. I just recently purchased a Leupold MK4 4.5-14 that Premier modified, it has a GenII XR reticle and is calibrated in .1 Mils. I never realized that had been an option when they were doing the mods.

    Julian
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308 Newb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    I cant understand why they dont do it. It can obviously be done.Julian </div></div>

    Because they are a bunch of retards. If you are a company selling millions of scopes per year why wouldn't you listen to your customers desires and offer your product with different options..? It would raise their sales numbers exponentially, I guarantee it...

    I guess that makes too much sense though..
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    It would be nice, that's for sure. That and coming up with a better reticule illumination knob/adjustment design would really boost their scopes. I like the TMR reticule, and they have good customer service and I like the adjustable illumination. However the power ring is obstructed by the illumination knob, and I'd rather have my reticule and adjustments on the same scale. I don't like the MLR reticule on the nightforce as much, and I don't like that the whole eye piece rotates for power adjustments, but having the same reticule/adjustments is really nice so I guess nothing is perfect in that price range.

    I'd be willing to bet that the mark 4 line sold to civilians is a tiny tiny share of their overall sales, so a few guys that want a different turret are probably not a priority. I'd be willing to bet 95% of those people that buy a mark 4 have no idea scopes with matched MOA/MOA or Mil/Mil adjustments even exist, most people selling them don't.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    ok so let me get this strait, the leupold MIL conversion adjust 1 click = .05mrad? so 2 clicks would be .1mrad? whats the problem with that?

    how many MIL per turn? also do the new leupold zero stops work with the MIL adjustments?
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    The problem is its about the same as having an 1/8 moa click scope to fine for a tactical scope.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Novadesigns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would rather have an MOA reticle option, since I'm in the US and I measure everything in US units. </div></div>

    A milradian is not a metric unit of measure, being from the US and measuring in US units has no bearing at all when it comes to mils..!!
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Novadesigns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would rather have an MOA reticle option, since I'm in the US and I measure everything in US units.</div></div>

    ???
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Metric system doesn't encompass angular measurements. Degrees and Radians are both commonly used mathematics.

    Of course there's no such thing as US units either, only English.

    Mils and MOA both don't work well with English measurements. IPHY is the only measurement that works well with English measurements.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    When I called Leupy they said a scope with moa knobs could not be (or would not be) converted to mil knobs. It had to start life as a mil knob scope.

    J
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    its the MK4 4.5-14x50mm TMR Metric

    they probably have them in the other magnifications also.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    I called luppy tech support and they said they cant and dont do mil conversions. they can only offer metric ( 1 cm per click) I would love to turn my 1/4 moa per click to .1 mil per click. any suggestions?
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Sir: 1 cm at 100 meters <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> 0.1 milliradian.

    As far as I know, however, Leupold currently offers only 0.05 milliradians, which is 0.5 centimeter at 100 meters. And a poster above said that they do not convert MOA scopes to milliradian clicks.

    So, you might wish to call them back to be sure about what they really offer.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Lindy, that is what I thought (1 cm = .1 mil) but I asked the guy several times about mil conversions and he said they dont do that. (strange) He said it was an actual cam swap and not a turret swap. He did not say anything about the .05 mil when I asked. Could be a case of the rep not knowing the whole story...
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could be a case of the rep not knowing the whole story...</div></div>

    That'd be my guess. There are a lot of Leupold employees who think the M1 knobs are 1/4 MOA clicks, when the ones I've tested are actually 0.25" at 100 yards.

     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    I called back and I spoke with Charles. He said that they are 1cm clicks and that I should reference the leupold scope #61990 metric

    a quick search of their site says .5cm per click....

    they seem to still not know whats going on...
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Beats me. There are only two scopes on their web page described as having "metric" adjustments, and both are described as having 0.5 cm clicks at 100 meters, which is 0.05 milliradians.

    Perhaps their web maintenance folks are just behind the curve.

     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beats me. There are only two scopes on their web page described as having "metric" adjustments, and both are described as having 0.5 cm clicks at 100 meters, which is 0.05 milliradians.

    Perhaps their web maintenance folks are just behind the curve.

    </div></div>


    I doubt its their web maintenance folks that are 'behind the curve'
    wink.gif



    .5cm would be too fine IMHO
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Novadesigns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would rather have an MOA reticle option, since I'm in the US and I measure everything in US units.</div></div>
    Just to firm it up, NO NO NO!!!
    Mil, Mil is sweet for any type of system. It isn't metric or English (other than the fact that it is 1/10). It is SOO much better than running a conversion. Just think (not that there are than many), shooting one shot, spotting it, adjusting without needing to got off the scope. I was so giddy after running it the first time. Only took three shots to zero as each was spotted and counted right in the scope without guessing.
    May be times I would like finer tuning, but really on paper.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Yes.

    One milliradian is an angle which subtends an arc whose length is 1/1000th of the distance from the vertex.

    In other words, one milliradian is an angle which subtends an arc whose length is:

    1 yard at 1000 yards.
    1 meter at 1000 meters.
    1 mile at 1000 miles.
    1 league at 1000 leagues.
    1 fathom at 1000 fathoms.
    1 inch at 1000 inches.
    1 foot at 1000 feet.
    1 lightyear at 1000 lightyears.
    1 attoparsec at 1000 attoparsecs.
    3.6 inches at 3600 inches (100 yards).

    It has nothing to do with any English or Metric system of linear measure.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    My mind just hurt!!! It really does make sense though. Almost to a fault.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    So here's my first post, I mostly read and occasionally post on SC (same user name). You guys have a great thread going here and addresses a question of mine.

    I have been extensively searching to find how many Mils/Revolution the mark 4 "metric" scopes have.

    I have been searching for a few days now, including calling Leupold tech support. They got back to me and said that its: "37cm/100m" for one revolution. In other words its 3.7mils/revolution.

    I really have a hard time believe that Leupold would set up a scope with 3.7mil/revolution. That would make the math terrible if you wanted to dial in 8 mils. You would have to do the following in your head: 8mils - 2*3.7mils = dialed in value on turret after rotating two full turns...I called Tech support back and told them this seemed odd to me - They said they would get back to me on Monday.

    **If someone knows, please let me know the mils/revolution on the mark 4 metric series. I am looking at the 8.5-25x50.**

    If Leupold dropped the ball on this one - NF may be the solution.

    Thanks for the help!
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chad3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Novadesigns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would rather have an MOA reticle option, since I'm in the US and I measure everything in US units.</div></div>
    Just to firm it up, NO NO NO!!!
    Mil, Mil is sweet for any type of system. It isn't metric or English (other than the fact that it is 1/10). It is SOO much better than running a conversion. Just think (not that there are than many), shooting one shot, spotting it, adjusting without needing to got off the scope. I was so giddy after running it the first time. Only took three shots to zero as each was spotted and counted right in the scope without guessing.
    May be times I would like finer tuning, but really on paper. </div></div>

    How is this different from a moa/moa scope like NovaDesigns wants?

    I have a moa/moa nightforce and it works great for me. I don't have to worry about being "in sync" with other shooters, no one around in my area seems to be into Mid/long range shooting.

    -dan
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.


    As per Leupold,

    There is no MRAD adjustments yet. There are possible metric conversions, 1cm at 100m (That tells you right there tech support has no idea).

    'They' have tried converting 3.5-10x & 4.5-14x and it worked out in metric. It didn't work out for any other scopes (ex. 6.5-20x).

    This was speaking to 4 techs in a row, so really Leupold is not even close to marketing the MRAD system IMO.

     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Is there anyone else out there that can Do a MIL knob conversion on leupys? I think the .05 mil knobs would be far too small of adjustments.

    Can premier do it?
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    +1...wish they would get this figured out for all the MK4 scopes. Lo-profile 0.1mil knobs with zero stops. My dealings with them leads me to believe they may not understand what the differnces are between mils and moas.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My dealings with them leads me to believe they may not understand what the differnces are between mils and moas.</div></div>

    My experience with Leupold leads me to suspect that they don't understand the difference between MOA and IPHY.

    The Leupold 6.5-20X50M1 and the 3.5-14X50M1 supposedly adjust in 0.25 MOA clicks, but the ones I have actually adjust in 0.25 IPHY clicks.

    The Leupold manual with the scopes actually tells you that, but you have to look hard to find it.

     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Lindy...I wish I could act supprised...but that is about par for the course
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Leupold is supposed to come out with 0.1 MIL clicks, but they arent yet selling them or doing those conversions. I would not spend the money to do a 0.05MIL click on a tactical scope. Leupold is behind the power curve on this, but they are getting it done.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got off phone with Leupold they say .1MRAD knob is available now, I'm waiting for the PIC of the knob.

    Fingers are crossed... </div></div>

    That would be a good thing. Hope its true.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got off phone with Leupold they say .1MRAD knob is available now, I'm waiting for the PIC of the knob.

    Fingers are crossed... </div></div>

    Did they indicate which models this will be available on.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    Tag this for later. Hope it comes out soon.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs factory conversion.

    BTDT. I sent a 3.5-10x40 M1 in about 3 years ago for a mRad conversion. This is what I got back:

    cmturret1.jpg

    cmturret3.jpg


    Notice how the graduations aren't even consistent? The clicks didn't match up either. I had them switch it back.
     
    Re: Leupold MK4 - MOA to MILs OK it is HERE!

    what other work is involved ? if you already have a m1 mil dot leupy, can you just swap the turrets or do you need to send the whole scope back ?
     
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