Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance ...

michael sr.

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Recently I hve noticed quite a few sellers do not offer insurance when shipping to a buyer. In some cases shpper does not inform buyer: "your $2000 AR10T is shpped w/o insurance" whereas the Buyer thinks insurance IS included and does not think about asking; <span style="font-weight: bold">the buyer believes insuring the AR10T, is a no-brainer!!! </span>


Normally <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">I WILL NOT INTERACT WITH ANY SELLER </span></span>WHO FAILS TO INSURE A ITEM HE IS SHPPING TO A BUYER! I ask...but many do not!

<span style="font-weight: bold">So the question is: if a Seller ships your gun w/o insurance and item ends up missing who is liable?</span>
 
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Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance ...

Whether or not to pay for insurance is the responsibility of whomever is responsible for the shipping costs.

Example 1: $2,000 TYD (To Your Door)- If shipping damage occurs, the seller is responsible, because he agreed to handle delivery.

Example 2: $2,000 plus shipping - The buyer is paying shipping charges and should always request appropriate insurance.
 

jasonk

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Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance ...

Agree with Tucker301.

The guys that sell a $3k rifle shipped and then add that insurance is extra just amaze me. Why would the seller take a risk of $3k for the $10 investment of insurance. Insurance is cheap, get it.

Now, for small items under $100 and even $200 usps, I don't bother. I've heard too many stories about what a bear it is trying to collect and most never do get their money. Anything worth "real money" goes UPS or FedEx since their tracking actually works. USPS is a joke for tracking, the other two actually work. FedEx lost a scope I bought, I was surprised how quickly they paid the seller and we got it resolved.
 

W54/XM-388

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance ...

    After doing mail order shipping for many years, I would simply say Never ship anything of any value without insurance and a tracking number. Regardless of what you think you told the buyer, in the end you are legally responsible to deliver the item to the purchaser in the condition it was sold in.

    Even if you claim you told the buyer that they had to purchase optional insurance or it was their risk, in the end the seller will have to eat it if the buyer goes after them for non delivery or delivery not in the condition advertised.

    Just make life simple and don't play games with pricing, if you are quoting someone a price for shipping, always quote it with the insurance value of what you are selling it to them for and via a traceable carrier. If you are selling the item for a delivered price then make sure you ship it out insured.
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance ...

    This is a real easy one for me.

    Rule #1 - be very picky about who you buy from. If you get any wierd vibes at all, steer clear of the deal.

    Rule #2 - understand that the term "insured" can mean self-insured or payed for insurance. If I sell you something for $100, I may elect to self-insure rather than buy insurance.

    Rule #3 - regardless of the insurance method used in Rule #2 above, I price as shipped and insured when selling. When I buy, I only do business with people that do shipped and insured.

    Rule #4 - if there is a dispute regarding shipping/damage/loss, once it is confirmed what the situation is and I the shipper am working with the carrier on resolution, THE BUYER GETS HIS MONEY BACK. I give that as a seller and I expect it in return as a buyer.

    Rule #5 - if the seller does not agree to the terms above, I do not buy from them.

    Bottom line is, if you are a buyer, then you are paying for the item as described in the condition described to appear at the destination. The contract with the carrier is between the seller and the carrier, not you and the carrier. Anything less than that is not what you agreed to; a breech of contract has occurred at that point. Once that has occurred you are entitled to your money back, no questions asked, and optionally can enter into a re-negotiation with the seller on terms. OPTIONALLY; you are not contractually bound to accepting a damaged item at a discount, dealing with the carrier yourself, or wasting your time to get the item back up to the original contract terms condition.

    Rule #6 - if a buyer at his choice prefers that the shipping take place using his account with a specific shipper, i.e. I give you my Fedex account number, send you via email the shipping tag, and pay the shipper of my choice myself as the buyer, then the contract changes in that I THE BUYER know own the agreement with the shipper, taking the seller out of the liability loop for damage or loss. The seller is not relieved of the burden of having correctly represented the item. The gray area in this arrangement is how well the item is packed. If the buyer is really concerned about this and wants to limit his liability, the buyer should ship to the seller the packing materials he wants used to send the item.
     

    wildhog

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance ...

    Good thread, Just completed a deal, that had me asking the same questions .We lucked out. A potential FUBR .. Thanks for the heads up. JIM
     

    JRose

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whether or not to pay for insurance is the responsibility of whomever is responsible for the shipping costs.

    Example 1: $2,000 TYD (To Your Door)- If shipping damage occurs, the seller is responsible, because he agreed to handle delivery.

    Example 2: $2,000 plus shipping - The buyer is paying shipping charges and should always request appropriate insurance. </div></div>

    Sums it up.
     

    huntler

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    I will just add this about insurance and loss/damage of packages.

    First, I have shipped literally 10's of thousands of packages since 1988.

    For small claims the USPS is fine and has gotten better in recent years.

    Fedex is my preffered shipper for high dollar items. fedex doesn’t actually insure your packages but will pay for loss or damage. I know it sounds like they leave themselves a loophole and maybe they do.

    I have NEVER had fedex not pay a claim!

    UPS in my opinion is the worst of all the shippers. They have lost and damaged more packages than I care to remember. I only collected on a hand full of the many claims and those were only after getting our Lawyer involved.

    We quit shipping UPS a few years ago. If a customer insists on UPS then they agree it is at their own risk.


    I'm sure others have had better luck with UPS than fedex and so on. This has been my experiance.

    We ship everything insured unless otherwise stated.
     

    Victor N TN

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    I tell all my customers "I'll pay the postage, if you want insurance tell me and I'll bill you the rest."
     

    jr81452

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tell all my customers "I'll pay the postage, if you want insurance tell me and I'll bill you the rest." </div></div>
    Exactly the way I do it.
     

    michael sr.

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    I have posted this on a number of Site's.

    1) as far as I know NO attorney's have responsed.


    2) consensus is: It is the Seller's responsibility and Seller is at risk if item is lost or damaged!
     

    USMCj

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    If you assume the item you are buying comes with insurance, you are an idiot! ASK! Dont assume shit and end up looking like an ass!
     

    JSTARSZ

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    good thread - it is always a good reminder to always ask questions and never <span style="color: #CC0000">ASS</span>UME because you may turn into the ASS. At the money we are dealing with it would cost you more to to obtain legal advice then just to pay the insurance and be done with it.
     

    birddog762

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    i am 100% with everything 9H said. well said and layed out exactly how it should be. as many of us know "common sense is not so common anymore". some people need the paint by numbers explaination.
     

    SSG3K

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    Insurance is 1 dollar per hundred. So a 3K rifle is 30 plus shipping. Not that cheap.

    Rich
     

    -=boone=-

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Insurance is 1 dollar per hundred. So a 3K rifle is 30 plus shipping. Not that cheap.

    Rich </div></div>

    Hmmm, think I rather be out the $30 than $3000. Just sayin...
     

    paraman1

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    If you don't ask for insurance or about it your Stupid . I have been buying and selling stuff online since before Ebay and its always been Caveat Emptor . If you spend 2-3 grand on a weapon and don't at least ask about it you are every bit as culpable as the seller IMO .
     

    Lt. Arclight

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    That's why there is a GOOD GUY list. During the transaction the buyer and seller work out a deal. I have sold numerous guns and have always included INSURANCE with shipping. Talk about penny wise and dollar foolish.
    sleep.gif
     

    300WSM

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    whenver I ship something I insure it. Either by assuming the risk or buying insurance. Many $50 items it simply isn't worth spending the $1.75.
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jr81452</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tell all my customers "I'll pay the postage, if you want insurance tell me and I'll bill you the rest." </div></div>
    Exactly the way I do it. </div></div>

    Totally disagree with this approach. It is not "his" item to insure - it is yours - until it shows up in the condition represented at its destination.

    Why should someone else insure your item for you?

    If you want to assume your liability ends once it leaves your hands, insurance or not, then we won't be doing any business.
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    i have bought and sold alot of stuff. the only things i didnt insure were things i could replace the buyers $$. when i sold my ar upper, it was sent registered and insured. UPS has always paid off its claims on my stuff. never used fedex as they dont have as close of an office
     

    K. Johns

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    Re: Liability: Seller shp's you item w/o insurance

    I feel that its my responsibility to get my customers bolts back to them. It's the only right thing to do for your customers. I think "offering" insurance is bullshit. EVERY package should be insured either through the shipping company, or the gunsmiths/suppliers good name.
    For example....

    I ship UPS. They give $100 insurance free, and charge $1.50 for every additional $100 insurance. To replace a bolt it would be around $500
    I ship about 1.5 bolts a day. If I insured every bolt it would cost me more than not insuring them and paying for one if I ever have to.
    If a customers bolt ever got lost, I'd pay for it out of my companies profit. Either way, its my responsibility to get it to my customer. And if one fails to be returned safely, I pay for an even better one to be timed/headspaced