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Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

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Gunny Sergeant
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Nov 5, 2007
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Another good article by Ralph Peters, of New York Post. Takes 2 minutes.

<span style="font-weight: bold">WISHFUL THINKING AND INDECISIVE WARS</span>

The most troubling aspect of international security for the United States is not the killing power of our immediate enemies, which remains modest in historical terms, but our increasingly effete view of warfare.

The greatest advantage our opponents enjoy is an uncompromising strength of will, their readiness to "pay any price and bear any burden" to hurt and humble us. As our enemies' view of what is permissible in war expands apocalyptically, our self-limiting definitions of allowable targets and acceptable casualties hostile, civilian and our own continue to narrow fatefully. Our enemies cannot defeat us in direct confrontations, but we appear determined to defeat ourselves.

Much has been made over the past two decades of the emergence of "asymmetric warfare," in which the ill-equipped confront the superbly armed by changing the rules of the battlefield. Yet, such irregular warfare is not new; it is warfare's oldest form, the stone against the bronze-tipped spear and the crucial asymmetry does not lie in weaponry, but in moral courage.

While our most resolute current enemies, Islamist extremists, may violate our conceptions of morality and ethics, they also are willing to sacrifice more, suffer more and kill more (even among their own kind) than we are. We become mired in the details of minor missteps, while fanatical holy warriors consecrate their lives to their ultimate vision. They live their cause, but we do not live ours. We have forgotten what warfare means and what it takes to win.

There are multiple reasons for this American amnesia about the cost of victory. First, we, the people, have lived in unprecedented safety for so long (despite the now-faded shock of September 11, 2001) that we simply do not feel endangered; rather, we sense that what nastiness there may be in the world will always occur elsewhere and need not disturb our lifestyles. We like the frisson (Latin/French: a sudden, passing sensation of excitement a shudder of emotion; thrill ) of feeling a little guilt, but resent all calls to action that require sacrifice.

Second, collective memory has effectively erased the European-sponsored horrors of the last century; yesteryear's "unthinkable" events have become, well, unthinkable. As someone born only seven years after the ovens of Auschwitz stopped smoking, I am stunned by the common notion, which prevails despite ample evidence to the contrary, that such horrors are impossible today.

Third, ending the draft resulted in a superb military, but an unknowing, detached population. The higher you go in our social caste system, the less grasp you find of the military's complexity and the greater the expectation that, when employed, our armed forces should be able to fix things promptly and politely.

Fourth, an unholy alliance between the defense industry and academic theorists seduced decision makers with a false-messiah catechism of bloodless war. In pursuit of billions in profits, defense contractors made promises impossible to fulfill, while think tank scholars sought acclaim by designing warfare models that excited political leaders anxious to get off cheaply, but which left out factors such as the enemy, human psychology, and 5,000 years of precedents.

Fifth, we have become largely a white-collar, suburban society in which a child's bloody nose is no longer a routine part of growing up, but grounds for a lawsuit; the privileged among us have lost the sense of grit in daily life. We grow up believing that safety from harm is a right that others are bound to respect as we do. Our rising generation of political leaders assumes that, if anyone wishes to do us harm, it must be the result of a misunderstanding that can be resolved by that lethal narcotic of the chattering classes, dialogue.

Last, but not least, history is no longer taught as a serious subject in America's schools. As a result, politicians lack perspective; journalists lack meaningful touchstones; and the average person's sense of warfare has been redefined by media entertainments in which misery, if introduced, is brief. By 1965, we had already forgotten what it took to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, and the degeneration of our historical sense has continued to accelerate since then. More Americans died in one afternoon at Cold Harbor during our Civil War than died in six years in Iraq. Three times as many American troops fell during the morning of June 6, 1944, as have been lost in combat in over seven years in Afghanistan. Nonetheless, prize-hunting reporters insist that our losses in Iraq have been catastrophic, while those in Afghanistan are unreasonably high.

We have cheapened the idea of war. We have had wars on poverty, wars on drugs, war on crime, economic warfare, ratings wars, campaign war chests, bride wars, and price wars in the retail sector. The problem, of course, is that none of these "wars" has anything to do with warfare as soldiers know it. Careless of language and anxious to dramatize our lives and careers, we have elevated policy initiatives, commercial spats and social rivalries to the level of humanity's most complex, decisive and vital endeavor.

One of the many disheartening results of our willful ignorance has been a well-intentioned, inane claim to the effect that "war doesn't change anything" and that "war isn't the answer," that we all need to "give peace a chance." Who among us would not love to live in such a splendid world?

Unfortunately, the world in which we do live remains one in which war is the primary means of resolving humanity's grandest disagreements, as well as supplying the answer to plenty of questions. As for giving peace a chance, the sentiment is nice, but it does not work when your self-appointed enemy wants to kill you. Gandhi's campaign of non-violence (often quite violent in its reality) only worked because his opponent was willing to play along. Gandhi would not have survived very long in Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, Mao's (or today's) China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, or Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Effective non-violence is contractual. Where the contract does not exist, Gandhi dies.

Furthermore, our expectations of war's results have become absurd.
Even the best wars do not yield perfect aftermaths. World War II changed the planet for the better, yet left the eastern half of Europe under Stalin's yoke and opened the door for the Maoist takeover in China. Should we then declare it a failure and not worth fighting? Our Civil War preserved the Union and abolished slavery - worthy results, surely. Still, it took over a century for equality of opportunity for minorities to gain a firm footing. Should Lincoln have let the Confederacy go with slavery untouched, rather than choosing to fight? Expecting Iraq, Afghanistan or the conflict of tomorrow to end quickly, cleanly and neatly belongs to the realm of childhood fantasy not human reality. Even the most successful war yields imperfect results. An insistence on prompt, ideal outcomes as the measure of victory guarantees the perception of defeat.

Consider the current bemoaning of a perceived "lack of progress" and "setbacks" in Afghanistan. A largely pre-medieval, ferociously xenophobic country that never enjoyed good government or a central power able to control all of its territory had become the hostage of a monstrous regime and a haven for terrorists. Today, Afghanistan has an elected government, feeble though it may be; for the first time in the region's history, some of the local people welcome, and most tolerate, the presence of foreign troops; women are no longer stoned to death in sports stadiums for the edification of the masses; and the most inventive terrorists of our time have been driven into remote compounds and caves. We agonize (at least in the media) over the persistence of the Taliban, unwilling to recognize that the Taliban or a similar organization will always find a constituency in remote tribal valleys and among fanatics. If we set ourselves the goal of wiping out
The Taliban, we will fail. Given a realistic mission of thrusting the Islamists to the extreme margins of society over decades, however, we can effect meaningful change (much as the Ku Klux Klan, whose following once numbered in the millions across our nation, has been reduced to a tiny club of grumps). Even now, we have already won in terms of the crucial question: Is Afghanistan a better place today for most Afghans, for the world and for us than it was on September 10, 2001? Why must we talk ourselves into defeat?

We have the power to win any war. Victory remains possible in every conflict we face today or that looms on the horizon. But, for now, we are unwilling to accept that war not only is, but must be, hell. Sadly, our enemies do not share our scruples.

The Present Foe

The willful ignorance within the American intelligentsia and in Washington, D.C., does not stop with the mechanics and costs of warfare, but extends to a denial of the essential qualities of our most-determined enemies.

While narco-guerrillas, tribal rebels or pirates may vex us, Islamist terrorists are opponents of a far more frightening quality. These fanatics do not yet pose an existential threat to the United States, but we must recognize the profound difference between secular groups fighting for power or wealth and men whose galvanizing dream is to destroy the West. When forced to assess the latter, we take the easy way out and focus on their current capabilities although the key to understanding them is to study their ultimate goals no matter how absurd and unrealistic their ambitions may seem to us.

The problem is religion. Our Islamist enemies are inspired by it, while we are terrified even to talk about it. We are in the unique position of denying that our enemies know what they themselves are up to. They insist, publicly, that their goal is our destruction (or, in their mildest moods, our conversion) in their god's name. We contort ourselves to insist that their religious rhetoric is all a sham, that they are merely cynics exploiting the superstitions of the masses. Setting aside the point that a devout believer can behave cynically in his mundane actions, our phony, one-dimensional analysis of al-Qaeda and its ilk has precious little to do with the nature of our enemies which we are desperate to deny and everything to do with us.

We have so oversold ourselves on the notion of respect for all religions (except, of course, Christianity and Judaism) that we insist that faith cannot be a cause of atrocious violence. The notion of killing to please a deity and further his perceived agenda is so unpleasant to us that we simply pretend it away. U.S. intelligence agencies and government departments go to absurd lengths, even in classified analyses, to avoid such basic terms as "Islamist terrorist." Well, if your enemy is a terrorist and he professes to be an Islamist, it may be wise to take him at his word.

A paralyzing problem "inside the Beltway" is that our ruling class has been educated out of religious fervor. Even officials and bureaucrats who attend a church or synagogue each week no longer comprehend the life-shaking power of revelation, the transformative ecstasy of glimpsing the divine, or the exonerating communalism of living faith. Emotional displays of belief make the functional agnostic or social atheist nervous; he or she reacts with elitist disdain. Thus we insist, for our own comfort, that our enemies do not really mean what they profess, that they are as devoid of a transcendental sense of the universe as we are.

History parades no end of killers-for-god in front of us. The procession has lasted at least five thousand years. At various times, each major faith - especially our inherently violent monotheist faiths
has engaged in religious warfare and religious terrorism. When a struggling faith finds itself under the assault of a more powerful foreign belief system, it fights: Jews against Romans, Christians against Muslims, Muslims against Christians and Jews. When faiths feel threatened, externally or internally, they fight as long as they retain critical mass. Today the Judeo-Christian/post-belief world occupies the dominant strategic position, as it has, increasingly, for the last five centuries, its rise coinciding with Islam's long descent into cultural darkness and civilizational impotence. Behind all its entertaining bravado, Islam is fighting for its life, for validation.

Islam, in other words, is on the ropes, despite no end of nonsense heralding "Eurabia" or other Muslim demographic conquests. If demography were all there was to it, China and India long since would have divided the world between them. Islam today is composed of over a billion essentially powerless human beings, many of them humiliated and furiously jealous.

So Islam fights and will fight, within its meager-but-pesky capabilities. Operationally, it matters little that the failures of the Middle Eastern Islamic world are self-wrought, the disastrous results of the deterioration of a once-triumphant faith into a web of static cultures obsessed with behavior at the expense of achievement. The core world of Islam, stretching from Casablanca to the Hindu Kush, is not competitive in a single significant sphere of human endeavor (not even terrorism since, at present, we are terrorizing the terrorists). We are confronted with a historical anomaly, the public collapse of a once-great, still-proud civilization that, in the age of super-computers, cannot build a reliable automobile: enormous wealth has been squandered; human capital goes wasted; economies are dysfunctional; and the quality of life is barbaric. Those who once cowered at Islam's greatness now rule the world. The roughly one-fifth of humanity that makes up the Muslim world lacks a single world-class university of its own. The resultant rage is immeasurable; jealousy may be the greatest unacknowledged strategic factor in the world today.

Embattled cultures dependably experience religious revivals: What does not work in this life will work in the next. All the deity in question asks is submission, sacrifice and action to validate faith. Unlike the terrorists of yesteryear, who sought to change the world and hoped to live to see it changed, today's terrorists’ focus on god's kingdom and regard death as a promotion. We struggle to explain suicide bombers in sociological terms, deciding that they are malleable and unhappy young people, psychologically vulnerable. But plenty of individuals in our own society are malleable, unhappy and unstable. Where are the Western atheist suicide bombers?

To make enduring progress against Islamist terrorists, we must begin by accepting that the terrorists are Islamists. And the use of the term
"Islamist," rather than "Islamic," is vital not for reasons of political correctness, but because it connotes a severe deviation from what remains, for now, mainstream Islam. We face enemies who celebrate death and who revel in bloodshed. Islamist terrorists have a closer kinship with the blood cults of the pre-Islamic Middle East or even with the Aztecs than they do with the ghazis who exploded out of the Arabian Desert, ablaze with a new faith. At a time when we should be asking painful questions about why the belief persists that gods want human blood, we insist on downplaying religion's power and insisting that our new enemies are much the same as the old ones.
It is as if we sought to analyze Hitler's Germany without mentioning Nazis.

We will not even accept that the struggle between Islam and the West never ceased. Even after Islam's superpower status collapsed, the European imperial era was bloodied by countless Muslim insurrections, and even the Cold War was punctuated with Islamist revivals and calls for jihad. The difference down the centuries was that, until recently, the West understood that this was a survival struggle and did what had to be done (the myth that insurgents of any kind usually win has no historical basis). Unfortunately for our delicate sensibilities, the age-old lesson of religion-fueled rebellions is that they must be put down with unsparing bloodshed, as the fanatic's god is not interested in compromise solutions. The leading rebels or terrorists must be killed. We, on the contrary, want to make them our friends.

The paradox is that our humane approach to warfare results in unnecessary bloodshed. Had we been ruthless in the use of our overwhelming power in the early days of conflict in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the ultimate human toll on all sides would have been far lower. In warfare of every kind, there is an immutable law: If you are unwilling to pay the butcher's bill up front, you will pay it with compound interest in the end. Iraq was not hard; we made it so.

Likewise, had we not tried to do Afghanistan on the cheap, Osama bin Laden would be dead and al-Qaeda even weaker than it is today.

When the United States is forced to go to war- or decides to go to war- it must intend to win. That means that rather than setting civilian apparatchiks to calculate minimum force levels, we need to bring every possible resource to bear from the outset- an approach that saves blood and treasure in the long run. And we must stop obsessing about our minor sins. Warfare will never be clean, soldiers will always make mistakes, and rounds will always go astray, despite our conscientious safeguards and best intentions. Instead of agonizing over a fatal mistake made by a young Marine at a roadblock, we must return to the fundamental recognition that the greatest "war crime" the United States can commit is to lose.

Other Threats, New Dimensions
Within the defense community, another danger looms: the risk of preparing to re-fight the last war, or, in other words, assuming that our present struggles are the prototypes of our future ones. As someone who spent much of the 1990's arguing that the U.S. armed forces needed to prepare for irregular warfare and urban combat, I now find myself required to remind my former peers in the military that we must remain reasonably prepared for traditional threats from states.

Yet another counter-historical assumption is that states have matured beyond fighting wars with each other, and that everyone would have too much to lose that the inter-connected nature of trade makes full-scale conventional wars impossible. That is precisely the view that educated Europeans held in the first decade of the twentieth century. Even the youngish Winston Churchill, a veteran of multiple colonial conflicts, believed that general war between civilized states had become unthinkable. It had not.

Bearing in mind that, while neither party desires war, we could find ourselves tumbling, a la 1914, into a conflict with China, we need to remember that the apparent threat of the moment is not necessarily the deadly menace of tomorrow. It may not be China that challenges us, after all but the unexpected rise of a dormant power. The precedent is there: in 1929 Germany had a playground military limited to 100,000 men. Ten years later, a re-armed Germany had embarked on the most destructive campaign of aggression in history, its killing power and savagery exceeding that of the Mongols. Without militarizing our economy (or indulging our unscrupulous defense industry), we must carry out rational modernization efforts within our conventional forces even as we march through a series of special-operations-intensive fights for which there is no end in sight. We do not need to bankrupt ourselves to do so, but must accept an era of hard choices, asking ourselves not which weapons we would like to have, but which are truly necessary.

Still, even should we make perfect acquisition decisions (an unlikely prospect, given the power of lobbyists and public relations firms serving the defense industry), that would not guarantee us victory or even a solid initial performance in a future conventional war. As with the struggle to drive terrorists into remote corners, we are limited less by our military capabilities than by our determination to pretend that war can be made innocently.

Whether faced with conventional or unconventional threats, the same deadly impulse is at work in our government and among the think tank astrologers who serve as its courtiers: An insistence on constantly narrowing the parameters of what is permissible in warfare. We are attempting to impose ever sterner restrictions on the conduct of war even as our enemies, immediate and potential, are exploring every possible means of expanding their conduct of conflicts into new realms of total war.

What is stunning about the United States is the fragility of our system. To strategically immobilize our military, you have only to successfully attack one link in the chain, our satellites. Our homeland's complex infrastructure offers ever-increasing opportunities for disruption to enemies well aware that they cannot defeat our military head-on, but who hope to wage total war asymmetrically, leapfrogging over our ships and armored divisions to make daily life so miserable for Americans that we would quit the fight. No matter that even the gravest attacks upon our homeland might, instead, re-arouse the killer spirit among Americans - our enemies view the home front as our weak flank.

From what we know of emerging Chinese and Russian war fighting doctrine, both from their writings and their actions against third parties, their concept of the future battlefield is all-inclusive, even as we, for our part long to isolate combatants in a post-modern version of a medieval joust. As just a few minor examples, consider Russia's and China's use of cyber-attacks to punish and even paralyze other states. We are afraid to post dummy websites for information-warfare purposes, since we have talked ourselves into warfare-by-lawyers. Meanwhile, the Chinese routinely seek to infiltrate or attack Pentagon computer networks, while Russia paralyzed Estonia through a massive cyber-blitzkrieg just a couple of years ago. Our potential enemies believe that anything that might lead to victory is permissible. We are afraid that we might get sued.

Yet, even the Chinese and Russians do not have an apocalyptic vision of warfare. They want to survive and they would be willing to let us survive, if only on their terms. But religion-driven terrorists care not for this world and its glories. If the right Islamist terrorists acquired a usable nuclear weapon, they would not hesitate to employ it (the most bewildering security analysts are those who minimize the danger should Iran acquire nuclear weapons). The most impassioned extremists among our enemies not only have no qualms about the mass extermination of unbelievers, but would be delighted to offer their god rivers of the blood of less-devout Muslims. Our fiercest enemies are in love with death.

For our part, we truly think that our enemies are kidding, that we can negotiate with them; after all, if only we could figure out which toys they really want. They pray to their god for help in cutting our throats, and we want to chat.

The Killers Without Guns

While the essence of warfare never changes- it will always be about killing the enemy until he acquiesces in our desires or is exterminated- its topical manifestations evolve and its dimensions expand. Today, the United States and its allies will never face a lone enemy on the battlefield. There will always be a hostile third party in the fight, but one which we not only refrain from attacking but are hesitant to annoy: the media.

While this brief essay cannot undertake to analyze the psychological dysfunctions that lead many among the most privileged Westerners to attack their own civilization and those who defend it, we can acknowledge the overwhelming evidence that, to most media practitioners, our troops are always guilty (even if proven innocent), while our barbaric enemies are innocent (even if proven guilty). The phenomenon of Western and world journalists championing the "rights" and causes of blood-drenched butchers who, given the opportunity, would torture and slaughter them, disproves the notion were any additional proof required that human beings are rational creatures. Indeed, the passionate belief of so much of the intelligentsia that our civilization is evil and only the savage is noble looks rather like an anemic version of the self-delusions of the terrorists themselves.

And, of course, there is a penalty for the intellectual's dismissal of religion: humans need to believe in something greater than themselves, even if they have a degree from Harvard. Rejecting the god of their fathers, the neo-pagans who dominate the media serve as lackeys at the terrorists' bloody altar.

Of course, the media have shaped the outcome of conflicts for centuries, from the European wars of religion through Vietnam. More recently, though, the media have determined the outcomes of conflicts. While journalists and editors ultimately failed to defeat the U.S. government in Iraq, video cameras and biased reporting guaranteed that Hezbollah would survive the 2006 war with Israel and, as of this writing, they appear to have saved Hamas from destruction in Gaza.

Pretending to be impartial, the self-segregating personalities drawn to media careers overwhelmingly take a side, and that side is rarely ours. Although it seems unthinkable now, future wars may require censorship, news blackouts and, ultimately, military attacks on the partisan media. Perceiving themselves as superior beings, journalists have positioned themselves as protected-species combatants. But freedom of the press stops when its abuse kills our soldiers and strengthens our enemies. Such a view arouses disdain today, but a media establishment that has forgotten any sense of sober patriotism may find that it has become tomorrow's conventional wisdom.

The point of all this is simple: Win. In warfare, nothing else matters. If you cannot win clean, win dirty. But win. Our victories are ultimately in
humanity's interests, while our failures nourish monsters.

In closing, we must dispose of one last mantra that has been too broadly and uncritically accepted: the nonsense that, if we win by fighting as fiercely as our enemies, we will "become just like them." To convince Imperial Japan of its defeat, we not only had to fire-bomb Japanese cities, but drop two atomic bombs. Did we then become like the Japanese of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere? Did we subsequently invade other lands with the goal of permanent conquest, enslaving their populations? Did our destruction of German cities also necessary for victory turn us into Nazis? Of course, you can find a few campus leftists who think so, but they have yet to reveal the location of our death camps. We may wish reality to be otherwise, but we must deal with it as we find it. And the reality of warfare is that it is the organized endeavor at which human beings excel. Only our ability to develop and maintain cities approaches warfare in its complexity. There is simply nothing that human collectives do better (or with more enthusiasm) than fight each other.

Whether we seek explanations for human bloodlust in Darwin, in our religious texts (do start with the Book of Joshua), or among the sociologists who have done irreparable damage to the poor, we finally must accept empirical reality: at least a small minority of humanity longs to harm others. The violent, like the poor, will always be with us, and we must be willing to kill those who would kill others. At present, the American view of warfare has degenerated from science to a superstition in which we try to propitiate the gods with chants and dances. We need to regain a sense of the world's reality.

Of all the enemies we face today and may face tomorrow, the most dangerous is our own wishful thinking.

<span style="font-style: italic">[Ralph Peters is a retired U.S. Army officer, a strategist, an author, a journalist who has reported from various war zones, and a lifelong traveler. He is the author of 24 books, including Looking for Trouble: Adventures in a Broken World and the forthcoming The War after Armageddon, a novel set in the Levant after the nuclear destruction of Israel.]</span>

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Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Alas, you erred. That took a lot more than 2 minutes.

Thanks for that. Peters is very good. I have read extensively of his non-fiction, and he is certainly among the best analysts, if not the best.

I wonder how many recognize the phrase, "pay any price and bear any burden"?

The complete sentence that is from is, "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

I don't think it was true when JFK said it at his inaugural, but it's certainly not true today.

Our civilization will be tipped into slavery, should that time come, not by a lack of resources, but by a lack of will.

Those who doubt that America lacks will and discipline need merely count the percentage of fat people in their local Wal-Mart.

JFK's inaugural speech, certainly among the most stirring speech ever delivered, may be found HERE.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

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Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our civilization will be tipped into slavery, should that time come, not by a lack of resources, but by a lack of will. </div></div>

I can't remember a time when I have read a truer statement.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

This country as a whole has not had the spine to bear any burden since we dropped a pair of atom bombs on Japan. We have lost the ability to scortch the Earth and demand surrender. We didn't used to care if civilians were killed during war. Me, I say bring back Fire Bombing the civilian population. I think it most certainly break the will of the Jihad when all those people were getting killed. Then again if it only strengthend them as a whole a few more atom bombs would do the job fine.
Scortch the Earth and Drive On.

To protect my family and their well being I shall bear any burden and pay any price
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Excellent Read. Thanks 41! I wholeheartedly agree.

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Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Good....no, Great read, albeit much longer than two minutes. The guy says what I've been saying all along, only much more eloquently.

"Effective non-violence is contractual. Where the contract does not exist, Gandhi dies."
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

It's amazing though, that the people of my generation (25-30 year olds) don't have a better idea of war. As was said in the original post, American History class is a joke. As far as curriculum is concerned, America's history ends in 1945. I never learned anything in school about anything that happened in America after the Allies beat Germany. There's no Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan... nothing. No economic peak and crash in the '70s, not even the great fashion trends of the 80s were joked about. We briefly covered that history was being made on 9/11/01, but even then nobody went in-depth as to <span style="font-style: italic">what</span> exactly was going on. It's actually pretty pitiful.

On topic though, great read. Everyone should read it.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

The soldiers still know how to fight, and know what needs to be done. Our hands are behind our backs.

The problem is that our leaders are more worried about pleasing a bunch of political bureaucrats and getting that next star or full bird, than letting their soldiers fight a war that would win. Its easier for a leader to show his strength and conviction by putting his soldiers in jail for killing bad guys, than actually getting their hands bloody leading the charge during battle. Why win a war when they can just loose it and still get their medals and pats on the back for trying their best(99% of the officers that go to Iraq get a bronze star, Lt and up).

The only counter insurgency strategy that works in war time is death to those who oppose us. Victory is never found in hand shakes and broken promises, but through fear. Until they fear the look on our face, as we violently end their lives, victory will never be achieved.

This lack of cold steel thrusting and skull stomping leaves our enemies without fear, and if they do fear us, it is due to our technology, which can always be defeated.

New ways will always be created to bypass our machines, but a will can never be defeated, as long as one man is left standing. The determination of our enemies is as strong as ever, and until our will to kill them, is greater than their will to kill us, they will continue to prosper. Placation is not the key to success; a heavy and violent hand is.

Our leaders have become domesticated farm animals, that have forgotten the taste of blood and guts. They would rather sit in their comfy stock yards eating grain, and getting fat for the slaughter.

Sorry for the rant, and thanks for the read 41.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

This is a very good article and I agree with many of the points the author makes. However, we must remember that warfare is a means to an end. There are different strategies, attrition, maneuver etc.. but there must be some clear cut goal, or else the warfare and the various approaches to it are just lost. The Soviets used a brutal approach against the Afghan people, but ultimately failed.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

When conventional diplomacy fails, it evolves to its next stage, armed negotiation; where logic, tolerance, and bargaining takes a back seat to belligerence, destruction, and forceful imposition of will. For the one approach to succeed, they other must be recognized as counterproductive. The one undercuts the success of the other.

My take is that we are failing for the same reasons Hitler failed. We engage the machine of war before we are properly prepared and committed. Our past successes encourage us to indulge the falacious concept that victory is determined in the political arena, and not on the battlefield. Warfare cannot be won there, it can only be won on the contested ground. Ignoring this simple truth leaves the world rife with contested conclusions, arrogant semivanquished opponents, and hotbeds of malcontent and conspiracy.

Nobody has the stomach to deliver the final coup; without which, the roaches emerge, breed, and do so with a new immunity to the prior threat. Society's sense of humanity is incompatible with military victory. For as long as this continues, society will remain its own worst enemy.

War is the reflection of the bestial in our nature. As long as we insist on covering up and denying that bestiality, we will be the victims of its refusal to tolerate denial.

Greg
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

That von Clausewitz guy said, "Der Krieg ist eine bloße Fortsetzung der Politik mit anderen Mitteln."

Maybe he knew something...
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Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Well, Wayne Newton has been divorced once, is currently married to a lawyer, has filed for bankruptcy once, and been sued by the IRS for unpaid taxes.

So, the Waynester would appear to know something about warfare...
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Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Interesting timing on that article, with the speech last night. On the topic of the danger of wishful thinking one thing jumped-out at me as the two came together in my mind:

Peters talks about how insulating is class and privilege, and the problems that this creates for the proper functioning of democracy. But when I hear the privileged speak they cast themselves in the role of protector of the individual.

The problem for the individual is that one's role in the system has supplanted both class and privilege. We know this because who our parents are still has more effect on what we become than does anything else. And Democracy, we are told, requires only participation not result. If this is true, then Hope and Change can't be what is necessary because the hope never gets realized. For democracy to function maybe it is only the <span style="font-style: italic">embracing</span> of Hope and Change that is necessary.

Many who embraced hope a year ago still believe that they share a dream. But the dream has had no concrete effect on the system. Maybe that's why they need the bobbleheads, the comemorative plates, and the "Yes, We Did" bumper stickers: because those displaying them know that in fact they didn't and that nothing of substance is happening for them personally. For me, the fascinating question is why the reality of the past year has had no effect on their dreams.

It must be that those who claim to share this dream, whatever it is, can do so without the need to understand either its context or its direction. They are satisfied to have played a minor role in the transition of power from one group of privileged people, who alienated and disenfranchised them, to another group of privileged people who alienate and disenfranchise them.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...the transition of power from one group of privileged people, who alienated and disenfranchised them, to another group of privileged people who alienate and disenfranchise them.</div></div>

c.f. Vilfredo Pareto, <span style="font-style: italic">The Rise and Fall of Elites.</span> It's either the lions or the foxes...

 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't
be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!"
-Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Luck or curse, I grew up in the Middle East, and American has no idea how they think or what lengths they are willing to go to.
We also do not understand that the only thing they respect is POWER, and with that, FORCE. Brutal punishment for getting out of line, or for challenging and losing.
There is a reason Saddam Hussein was so brutal, and it worked. He had little opposition from within, and everyone sang his praises to his face. To rule with an iron fist, you have to be willing to use it, and we are not.

Forty-One,
Great article! It is two minutes if you are a professional analyst...
Until we get our ass kicked, our malls attacked with a suicide bomber, or our cities carbombed, Americans will always try and appease and bow down to the Muslims.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...the transition of power from one group of privileged people, who alienated and disenfranchised them, to another group of privileged people who alienate and disenfranchise them.</div></div>
c.f. Vilfredo Pareto, <span style="font-style: italic">The Rise and Fall of Elites.</span> It's either the lions or the foxes...</div></div> Agreed.

"I do not go about telling people what they ought to be doing in this world. There are enough others to do that - but I say what I do myself."
- Montaigne, <span style="font-style: italic">Essays</span>
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> bobbleheads </div></div>
I love that reference, and timing can be everything. Ah, the danger of dreams.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All in all though, good for some businesses.</div></div>I think you need serious rank to make the big bucks, though.
wink.gif
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our past successes encourage us to indulge the falacious concept that victory is determined in the political arena, and not on the battlefield. <span style="font-weight: bold">Warfare cannot be won there, it can only be won on the contested ground</span>. Ignoring this simple truth leaves the world rife with contested conclusions, arrogant semivanquished opponents, and hotbeds of malcontent and conspiracy.</div></div>

Greg, your military signature indicates that you had the opportunity to witness first hand that warfare can ONLY be won in the political arena. How many times, in Vietnam, did your brothers-in-arms have to give back blood-earned ground only to find themselves re-taking and re-taking due to the decisions made in the Oval office? Warfare is only the practical appendage of a political process.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

In <span style="font-style: italic">On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War</span>, The late Col. Harry Summers, the author, recounts a conversation with a North Vietnamese General. Summers pointed out that the U.S. never lost a battle in the field.

The General essentially replied, "What you say is true - but irrelevant."
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic


Davev...it didn't start in 'Nam, it started in Korea.

Forty one - well said...very well said.

When there is no room for victory, then there is only room for defeat.

For me to comment much further would be to reiterate previously stated truths that are glaringly apparent. Let me just say that I whole-heartedly 'concur'.

We are in the last days of the Republic, and we, those that will preside over its fall, will look back with astonishment and amazement at how it literally slipped through our very fingers.

There are some good men here...warriors, in every sense of that word. I pray God gives us all discernment concerning the days that lay ahead of us.

As the sunset of our freedom looms, I will stand with those that will not go quietly in the night, as those that come before me have stained every inch of our precious land red with the blood of their sacrifice. I pray I my actions will meet with their approval.

America...how I miss her...

cryhavoc
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"just like witches at black masses..." </div></div>

Hmm. Ralph Peters and Ozzy quoted in the same thread, only on the 'Hide...
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Dave;

I invite you to consider the point that the Vietnam war was not won in the political arena, but won, repeatedly on the battlefield, and lost, repeatedly, in the political arena.

More properly, victory was not lost, it was <span style="font-style: italic">discarded</span>, along with the lives, limbs, and souls of those who performed the actual sacrfices necessary to buy the victory. While I count myself among that number, my part was very small by comparison.

My favorite aphorism is, "We were winning when I left...". We were there to win, but the politicians never honestly gave us the chance. If you've ever witessed the cartoon depicting the donkey, the stick, and the carrot; you get the picture five by five.

It's hard to face an American serviceman these days and tell them their government has their interests at heart. My heart knows they do a worthwhile thing, but my sense of unemotional reality also pities them the degree of thanks their grateful government is holding in reserve for them.

Like many old Veterans, experience supplants emotion, cynicism trumps idealism, and my heart is in fewer things than it once was. I don't see the Republic as slipping through my fingers. There's no Republic left to grab onto. I see it as long gone and maybe even nearly forgotten. Maybe I'm the one who's mourning an already gone reality. When I'm gone, when those like me are gone, who will be left to even care what happened?

Now, then, who's up for another round?

Greg
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL- you should have to reference my 2004 post.</div></div>

Got a link?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Next, I'll read that you have a great quote collection...</div></div>

laugh.gif


I do, but that's from memory - it's not an exact quotation, but the essence is correct. I read <span style="font-style: italic">On Strategy</span> when it was published in 1982, when I had not started my quotation file, and the book is long gone.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SemperFiDawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may be the best thread I have ever had the privilege to read. </div></div>

Absolutely. And with a profound bummer quotient to boot.

Se La Vie...
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

The Republic does not trouble me, wherever it's been, wherever it's going. The thing, for me, has always been the people, and expecially the ones who give the crucial damn.

They are always in short supply, and always burdened with more than just these subjects. No-one else is, no-one else would be, and no-one else should be. When the wheel turns and grinds to its periodic halt, when the sheep look up, so do they.

Hard times renew values. Luxuries reveal themselves as the frivolities they are. People relegate the silly horsesh*t to the heaps where they belong. We move on, chastened.

In the midst of the fray, the fools retard the industrious, fighting the necessary sinking, impeding the restoration. They will be with us for precisely as long as we choose to carry them. We should be askng why we do, but truth is, we will anyway, no matter what reasons we uncover. "It is in your natures to destroy yourselves". Yes it is, but all of us? No; and that's the good news.

Greg
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the midst of the fray, the fools retard the industrious, fighting the necessary sinking, impeding the restoration. They will be with us for precisely as long as we choose to carry them. We should be askng why we do, but truth is, we will anyway, no matter what reasons we uncover. "It is in your natures to destroy yourselves". Yes it is, but all of us? No; and that's the good news.</div></div>Interesting observation, Greg, about human nature.

Throughout the history of modern conflict, until a war is going really, really badly the technocrats refuse to step aside and permit the able to lead. The question is: Why does every modern army keep doing this, time and time again?

Maybe because The military began turning out technocrats well before modern governments ever did. Prior to the first management school, or the first university with a degree program in public policy, Marquis de Bourcet founded the first staff college in Grenoble, France. The year was 1764.

Then came his student, Napoleon, who was probably single-handedly responsible for the creation and rise of what we now call the modern administrative army. Napoleon was a genius. Misguided, perhaps, and he had other faults for sure, but he was a brilliant strategist who conquered most of Europe.

One hundred years later, on the eve of the First World War, Napoleon’s legacy, that of the the modern bureaucratic army, had flat run-out of brilliant commanders. In their place, and in charge, stood a group of professional politicians, all with high military rank, who, in order to stifle men of true military genius under their command, had made a pact with mediocrity.

The battles that followed in no way resembled the campaigns of 1814-. This time the result was utter carnage. And the elite level of training from the army staff colleges gave the high command the unique ability not to panic, and not to be decisive, no matter the cost. Of course, this perpetuated the carnage and escalated it to a level never before seen in the history of mankind.

The only army that fought well as an army, the British, did so under the command of Kitchener, who had no staff college training and thus was not hampered by it. With the exception of the bombastic Kitchener more able officers were ignored, even Winston Churchill, who was ridiculed and marginalized for his support of the development of stupid new ideas like submarines and aircraft carriers.

By the time things got really, really bad, the year was 1940. Most professional military types then held their noses, looked the other way, and secretly hoped that this new guy - a crazy panic junkie called Churchill - would be blamed for the inevitable domestic political crisis.

Meanwhile Vice Air Martial Dowding, who had predicted the battle of Britain, waged a vocal uphill battle among his colleagues to prepare for an invasion that no one else with equivalent rank would speak about in public. Instead, they said, carpet bombing German cities was the answer. Well, no sooner was the Battle of Britain won than Dowding was fired. And the carpet bombing began. Carpet bombing has not won a war, then, or since.

Need I go on?

41, to the front; you're up.

 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

The problem with war planning and execution in civilized societies is civilization itself. War, by nature is audacias and barbaric. The Geneva Convention is an interesting construct..."civilized warfare." Civilized people are, on balance, civilians. Civilians have little understanding of the complexities of warfare, however, they wield the sword of "public opinion." They hold the most powerful weapon known to man...the vote. As war planners continue to make decisions based on how their career track will be impacted, the actual "boots on the ground" will be hindered in their ability to visit on our enemies the kind of violence required to end each hostility for the betterment of our interests. Factor in the enormous sums of money to be made in armed conflicts, and the fog of war expands from the battle field to the very ivory towers that ultimately throw the levers.

Those who wage warfare in "uncivilized" societies have the benefit of simplicity of thought and purpose. They respect no boundaries because boundaries are, in large, the result of civilized thinking. When warfare condenses down to a question of attrition only, the outcomes are self-directing because the calculus of war is reduced to simple subtraction. This style of warfare is clearly not in vogue and won't be under the constraints of our civil structure.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Graham. "And not to be decisive, no matter the cost." Nice. Privately, I feel a small personal sense of elation.

There is a serious read titled "The Enlightened Soldier" that you might enjoy if you can find it used for $100.00 or so. On Amazon, a reader recommends it for all senior "military/corporate" leaders. At this fusion, I smirk, knowingly. (I could also loan it.)

You wisely commented once about a story told upon a large jar. "What mad pursuit?" "Who are these coming to the sacrifice?" Indeed.
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carpet bombing has not won a war, then, or since.</div></div>

Well, I have encountered elements who believe that the Air Force won the war against Germany.

There is something to that argument. However, it was not strategic bombing which had the most effect in that conflict, but destruction of railroad equipment by P-47s.

One might argue that nuclear weapons were decisive in the war with Japan, although I would say that all they did was end the war by minimizing the casualties on our side. Japan was done, but they might well have killed enormous numbers of our troops had an invasion of the main Japanese islands been necessary.

I agree with T.R. Fehrenbach, though, who said in <span style="font-style: italic">This Kind of War</span>, a study of Korea:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Americans in 1950 rediscovered something that since Hiroshima they had forgotten: you may fly over a land forever; you may bomb it, atomize it, pulverize it and wipe it clean of life -- but if you desire to defend it, protect it, and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men into the mud.</div></div>
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-- but if you desire to defend it, protect it, and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men into the mud.</div></div> </div></div>Unfortunately the staff officers of WWI never had enough men for the mud. In much the same way, I am worried that our modern army never has enough equipment.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(I could also loan it.)</div></div>Yes, you could.
smile.gif
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

Carpet bombing. And so it goes...

I read with great interest about professionalism because the word has evolved so greatly in meaning in my mind. The word seems to morph, with advancements. I have often equated the modern rank structure to the pieces found upon a chess board.

The front rank of pawns are enlisted men, they bear the brunt of the fighting and are often assumed by the other pieces to be expendable, after being used of course. There is the hint of great achievement if they can advance untouched to the back rank of their enemy. The odds of this are very low. Their mighty strength is in the fact that they are aligned with like pieces of strength and heart. And so they move forward trusting the piece on their left and right. The next piece of merit is the Captain, a knight. He has one purpose: he steps forward 2 steps into the fight often mingling closely with the pawns before a "greater" piece realizes either that he has had success or that he has made a mistake. In either case, they insist that he "step aside." Majors and LtCols are bishops, able to advance the length of the board but always at an angle, their focus being slightly off having been led to believe they were vastly important or given a very small glimpse of what they could become. The Colonel is a rook. There is no limit to the siege tower's advancement or power over other pieces when he is attacking and he can move across the board. He is one with the institution; however, and he must maintain a straight line. Sometimes this focus can weaken the flanks thus making others wary of his selfish purpose. If aligned correctly with a King, he can perform actions thought impossible by the other players. This is called castling. The Brigadier and Major Generals are Queens. Moving often in a pattern and sometimes without reason, they make their presence known all over the board. Some players often put too much emphasis upon them but they enjoy this. The emphasis upon them is what they so greatly desire, and they are now willing to destroy anything that hinders their advance. The LtGen and General are represented by the king. As the most important piece, the game truly is all about him. At e1 or e8, using algebraic notation, he starts the game where he has always been taught he must start. He moves slowly, and not far, and he does little fighting but uses all of the lesser pieces to enable him to avoid capture.

This came to me in a vision after a night of drinking when a British Royal Marine and sniper of some repute leaned across the bar in Exmouth and asked for the bill. I remember it clearly. He said, "Check - mate."

As a knight I once had a heated discussion with a bishop (now a queen) that called me something I took as a compliment, having read most of Victor Hugo by the time I was a somewhat senior pawn. The lines came back to me:

<span style="font-style: italic">"How can it be captured? You can reason with a bulldog, astonish a bull, fascinate a boa, frighten a tiger, tame a lion; but you have no resource against this monster, a loose cannon. You cannot kill it , it is dead; and at the same time it lives."</span>
 
Re: Limiting Warfare - A Favorite Topic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...something I took as a compliment, having read most of Victor Hugo by the time I was a somewhat senior pawn.</div></div>I got the reference to Hugo, who left France in disgust and publicly refused to return until the day that Louis-Napoleon was no longer King.

I, however, was busy reading Lermontov, who was exiled to the mountains where he wrote at his best while fighting in border skirmishes and accepting duels with arrogant drunkards.

I imagine that with Hugo gone, or Lermontov in the Caucusus, those in power felt safer trusting the lives of their men to officers who showed themselves to be of limited intelligence and marginal competence.

Our enemy's strategy is not new. One of the fundamentals of Sun Tzu’s philosophy of warfare is that numbers give no advantage to an army that is properly led. His point was that attacking the strategy of a stronger opponent is many times more effective than attacking his army, because any success by the lesser force is multiplied by the numbers of superior men and equipment of the stronger force. It's like a reverse-multiplier effect. It was this that Napoleon meant when he said that in war it is the man, not men, that count.

Such mistakes of the professional military class are not new either. In 1415 the French Knights complained that they had lost at Agincourt because the inferior English had broken the rules and used mere peasants as soldiers. Five hundred years later no fewer than 250,000 soldiers, now including conscriped peasants, were sent to their deaths in the Passchendaele swamp despite protests to the High Command by the officers in the field. And although massive bombing campaigns didn’t win World War I, World War II, or Vietnam, many modern Generals acted surprised when sixty days of intensive targeted bombing failed to prevent the deliberate torching of Iraq’s oil infrastructure in the Gulf War.

What the above examples share is a professional class of military commanders who focused on soldiering as a career and who sought to increase their power within the political organization for personal advancement. What the French Knights, Gen. Kiggel, Robert McNamara and Gen. Colin Powell found out is that modern armies with superior weaponry lose when they forget that the purpose of waging war is to win.