Load for AR15 .223

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

Ok, I know its really not the time to look for powders...

However I have been looking to try to figure out a load for (2) rifles:

12.5" SBR with small suppressor (mid length gas)
17.5" rifle length gas with suppressor

I plan to shoot 77 SMK's because I have a lot of them - alternatively I would consider Hornady 73gr ELD-M if I could find them - but as of now I can't so moving on...

I have been doing a lot of investigating:
- This guys videos on testing trying to clone Black Hills MK 262 are pretty interesting - he does a LOT of testing of various powders...

I also read through this blog: http://natoreloading.com/best556powder/

Both of these guys have good stuff to say. So, my questions:

Do you all (Snipers Hide guys) find this to be realistic?

Hodgdon Benchmark powder, Alliant AR-Comp, Alliant 2520 & Hodgdon H335

Should all the above powders give me great accurate results & higher velocity (looking for in the ballpark of 2700 fps or greater) with the heavy bullets?

Additionally I can't find a good solid lead on brass, and would like to use a decent brass I can find:

PPU, Starline - I can get both of these, and maybe some Winchester. I have seen a lot of comparisons across Remington, Winchester, Lapua, Lake City and Federal, but not a lot of info on PPU nor Starline. What is the best, least expensive, available brass currently?

I sometimes shoot lost brass matches and using Lapua .223 makes me cringe....

 

[nn8734]

My Mk12 load is 77g smk over 25g of AA2520 in a lake city case lit by a Remington 7-1/2 primer.

It’s very consistent to 600m. Here’s a couple groups:

500m

600m

Mk12 Mod 1

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I can’t answer your question on which powder, but I use Starline in my 6x6.8 and have had pretty good results with it.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

What velocity are you getting?

 

[kyzim311]

You will find that the best powder for your 12.5" upper will be different that the 18" upper for velocity, so you are going to have to pick one. I would remove benchmark from your list and replace it with IMR 8208 xbr. Benchmark would likely work well in your 12.5", but is a bit fast for your longer barrel. H335 might also struggle a bit with getting to the velocity you are looking for. For brass, I would look for some lake city brass. It has the most case capacity and should allow you to push the velocity a bit without pressure. It is also consistent. I would follow what JRB does more closely than the website, it has 0 data for your bullet. As always, start low and work up.

 

[db2000]

I had best luck with 23.8 gr H4895 in 12.5” BA barrel 2580 fps and 24.5 on RL15 at 2450 fps.

I get 2590 from 14.5” BA barrel and 2680 fps from my 16” Proof barrel and the same H4895 round.

 

[nn8734]

What velocity are you getting?

If you’re asking me, 2810 fps on avg.

 

[db2000]

If you’re asking me, 2810 fps on avg.

Wow. That’s fast from a 12.5”.
1 lb cans of AA2520 are in stock at Powder Valley fyi. Just picked up 5#.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

Wow. That’s fast from a 12.5”.
1 lb cans of AA2520 are in stock at Powder Valley fyi. Just picked up 5#.

I am hoping to get 2700 or near from 12.5" - I think @nn8734 is getting 2810 from a 16" rifle (I am not sure the barrel length, just judging based on looks).

 

[nn8734]

Wow. That’s fast from a 12.5”.
1 lb cans of AA2520 are in stock at Powder Valley fyi. Just picked up 5#.

My Mk12 Mod 1’s barrel is 18”. I’d love to have that kind of speed out of a 12.5”, assuming it was doable safely lol.

 

[huntnh]

24 grains of varget and the 77 smks works for me

 

[Sleddog30]

I’ve had good luck with 23.5 gr of TAC with 77 SMK. They run 2650 using starline and CCI SRP.

 

[db2000]

My Mk12 Mod 1’s barrel is 18”. I’d love to have that kind of speed out of a 12.5”, assuming it was doable safely lol.

Ahhhh. Makes sense.
I get 3037 from 855A1 and 16”” Proof. That’s screaming.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Ive used 24.5 of varget and tac

 

[nn8734]

Ahhhh. Makes sense.
I get 3037 from 855A1 and 16”” Proof. That’s screaming.

Fuck yea, it is….I like it!

 

[kyzim311]

I am hoping to get 2700 or near from 12.5" - I think @nn8734 is getting 2810 from a 16" rifle (I am not sure the barrel length, just judging based on looks).

yeah that velocity is not going to happen. 2500 is more likely.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

24 grains of varget and the 77 smks works for me

I currently run 24.4 Varget + 77 SMK's, but only get 2495 fps. Hence the work to try to get some better velocity. After seeing people get dramatically higher velocities out of similar barrels (for example BH Mk262 runs around 2526fps out of a 11.5" - a friends), I wanted to try to get some higher velocity out of my short barrel, and even my long barrel.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

Also, what is "normal" pricing on LC brass once fired - range pickup (maybe cleaned, but not deprimed etc)?

I found some but don't have a $$ to compare to, and would like to get some LC brass since it seems to be the best value.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

yeah that velocity is not going to happen. 2500 is more likely.

My friend gets 2620 with 8208 XBR from his 12.5" barrel - so this is what I am shooting for if possible -somewhere at least in the mid 2600's.

I found some Accurate 2520 & H335 that I am going to try over Varget, but would love to try some AR Comp but can't seem to find any instock anwhere...

 

[nn8734]

Also, what is "normal" pricing on LC brass once fired - range pickup (maybe cleaned, but not deprimed etc)?

I found some but don't have a $$ to compare to, and would like to get some LC brass since it seems to be the best value.

I bought 1000 pieces of LC 1x fired (not cleaned or prepped) for $120 shipped recently.

Also, I’d avoid any brass already sized as they may or may not be oversized relative to your chamber where you end up paying for someone’s labor that yields no benefit to you.

If you come across LC brass has already been cleaned and swedged (but not sized) and is reasonably priced I’d buy it.

 

[kyzim311]

My friend gets 2620 with 8208 XBR from his 12.5" barrel - so this is what I am shooting for if possible -somewhere at least in the mid 2600's.

I found some Accurate 2520 & H335 that I am going to try over Varget, but would love to try some AR Comp but can't seem to find any instock anwhere...

2600+ is not a realistic number from a 12.5" barrel. Here is a Gordons reloading tool max load of Acccurate 2520 at max load from a 18" barrel, and it gives a similar velocity to the video you linked above (2743 fps). If not familiar with GRT, it is similar to quickload.

Now cut it down to a 12.5" barrel. it is saying 2490 FPS. I am not saying this model is exactly what you will get, but I would not be aiming for 2600+ thinking it was safe. You might have a fast barrel that can go higher than 2500 safely, but it would be the exception not the norm. IMR8208xbr does give a bit higher velocity at 2510.

Also, the link below shows some real world data with a number of different factory offerings in different barrel lengths. Pay attention to the black hills 68 grain load as that is the closest thing to what we are looking at. It is a 223 load, but it is also a ligher bullet. https://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/22...el-length-and-velocity-26-inches-to-6-inches/

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

2600+ is not a realistic number from a 12.5" barrel. Here is a Gordons reloading tool max load of Acccurate 2520 at max load from a 18" barrel, and it gives a similar velocity to the video you linked above (2743 fps). If not familiar with GRT, it is similar to quickload.
View attachment 7708767
Now cut it down to a 12.5" barrel. it is saying 2490 FPS. I am not saying this model is exactly what you will get, but I would not be aiming for 2600+ thinking it was safe. You might have a fast barrel that can go higher than 2500 safely, but it would be the exception not the norm. IMR8208xbr does give a bit higher velocity at 2510.
View attachment 7708771
Also, the link below shows some real world data with a number of different factory offerings in different barrel lengths. Pay attention to the black hills 68 grain load as that is the closest thing to what we are looking at. It is a 223 load, but it is also a ligher bullet. https://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/22...el-length-and-velocity-26-inches-to-6-inches/

Thanks, just heard about Gordon's reloading from someone in the shop today, I appreciate it!