if i start hand loading all these loads, and i go out on a calm winter day, will i get accurate results, ( i dont mean shot placement i mean data feed back ) iam not sure if the powder will burn faster or slower or the same as it would on a warm summer evening, so iam not sure if i should start loading and testing now or wait till spring
- Thread starter black_ump
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Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
Load development is an on-going process that need to be done at various environmental settings. Ambient air temperature, elevation, humidity, and barometric pressure all have an effect on both internal and external ballistics. Thus if you really want to know how your ammunition will react in various environmental conditions you need to get out and do load testing in as many different settings/conditions as possible.
Load development is an on-going process that need to be done at various environmental settings. Ambient air temperature, elevation, humidity, and barometric pressure all have an effect on both internal and external ballistics. Thus if you really want to know how your ammunition will react in various environmental conditions you need to get out and do load testing in as many different settings/conditions as possible.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
Load and shoot today in order to get the loading within a small window.
Then as temperatures get higher, continue to refine the load. That is: continue to run small variations of charge weight (+/- 0.1 gr) and bullet seating position (+/- 0.005). You are looking not for that one increadibly small group, but for a load that shoots well all the time (tactical applications: benchrest shooters are allways chasing smaller groups.)
Load and shoot today in order to get the loading within a small window.
Then as temperatures get higher, continue to refine the load. That is: continue to run small variations of charge weight (+/- 0.1 gr) and bullet seating position (+/- 0.005). You are looking not for that one increadibly small group, but for a load that shoots well all the time (tactical applications: benchrest shooters are allways chasing smaller groups.)
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
ya i guess both of you are right, do you think i should invest in a mic seating die so i can make those fine seating adjustmets ?
ya i guess both of you are right, do you think i should invest in a mic seating die so i can make those fine seating adjustmets ?
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
The equipment you use is up to you. For my ammunition I just use the regular Hornady seating dies (Hornady does make a precision mic add-on for these). I've found I can do as well without and thus don't see the need in the expense.
The equipment you use is up to you. For my ammunition I just use the regular Hornady seating dies (Hornady does make a precision mic add-on for these). I've found I can do as well without and thus don't see the need in the expense.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
ya i was just thinking, i could always take a sharpie and mark the dies once i get to a sweet spot and then if i ever want to try somthing else atleast ill know where i was at when i wanna go back.
ya i was just thinking, i could always take a sharpie and mark the dies once i get to a sweet spot and then if i ever want to try somthing else atleast ill know where i was at when i wanna go back.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ya i guess both of you are right, do you think i should invest in a mic seating die so i can make those fine seating adjustmets ? </div></div>
While I have a few of the comp seater dies, for years I made dummy rounds with no primer or powder. I wrote on the side of the case with a fine tip sharpie marker what it was. Back out the seater stem, insert the dummy round into the shell holder and arise the ram. with the die in place, screw the seater plug down until it just touches the top of the dummy round. If you screw it down by hand, you can feel when it makes contact.
Good luck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ya i guess both of you are right, do you think i should invest in a mic seating die so i can make those fine seating adjustmets ? </div></div>
While I have a few of the comp seater dies, for years I made dummy rounds with no primer or powder. I wrote on the side of the case with a fine tip sharpie marker what it was. Back out the seater stem, insert the dummy round into the shell holder and arise the ram. with the die in place, screw the seater plug down until it just touches the top of the dummy round. If you screw it down by hand, you can feel when it makes contact.
Good luck.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
i got one of the mic seating dies recently. it does make adjusting easy. doesnt make it any less frequent it seems. i still have a variance in length from shell to shell. i need to use my comparator dealy (lol) i guess. the way i think about it, if you hunt or shoot in this weather, you need a load for it or at least data for it. you might want to recheck next summer, but keep the winter data handy.
i got one of the mic seating dies recently. it does make adjusting easy. doesnt make it any less frequent it seems. i still have a variance in length from shell to shell. i need to use my comparator dealy (lol) i guess. the way i think about it, if you hunt or shoot in this weather, you need a load for it or at least data for it. you might want to recheck next summer, but keep the winter data handy.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
thanks for all the info and the heads up
thanks for all the info and the heads up
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
Yup but its one of the variables and also one of the last steps for refinement after you do the OCW testing and get a load thats close
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ya i guess both of you are right, do you think i should invest in a mic seating die so i can make those fine seating adjustmets ? </div></div>
Yup but its one of the variables and also one of the last steps for refinement after you do the OCW testing and get a load thats close
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ya i guess both of you are right, do you think i should invest in a mic seating die so i can make those fine seating adjustmets ? </div></div>
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
oh yah testing in the winter is a good idea the more you test the more you will get to know about the load and the rifle
Bill
oh yah testing in the winter is a good idea the more you test the more you will get to know about the load and the rifle
Bill
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
+1 what bill said, i have just started a couple new load work ups in the last month and a half and found they vary a little in the funky weather we have had here lately, anywhere from 60' to 15' in the last month and a half. loads that were loaded all at one time grouped one day and didnt the next time it was shot at a different temp so all data is important even if it was negative data, it helps you decide where to go to next with the recipe
+1 what bill said, i have just started a couple new load work ups in the last month and a half and found they vary a little in the funky weather we have had here lately, anywhere from 60' to 15' in the last month and a half. loads that were loaded all at one time grouped one day and didnt the next time it was shot at a different temp so all data is important even if it was negative data, it helps you decide where to go to next with the recipe
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
I don't. I prefer to develop loads under the conditions that most approximate the ones I'll be doing the bulk of my shooting under. Typically, performance under differnt conditions will be roughly predictable, if not very nearly indistinguishable.
Winter layovers can be difficult to endure. I know because it's getting to me, too, right about now. I'd guess this has something to do with your question. Very simply, I'd strongly suggest we all find something else to occupy our energy until Spring.
Greg
I don't. I prefer to develop loads under the conditions that most approximate the ones I'll be doing the bulk of my shooting under. Typically, performance under differnt conditions will be roughly predictable, if not very nearly indistinguishable.
Winter layovers can be difficult to endure. I know because it's getting to me, too, right about now. I'd guess this has something to do with your question. Very simply, I'd strongly suggest we all find something else to occupy our energy until Spring.
Greg
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
if you are performimng OCW testing you will find the "band" that the barrel is tollerant of this allows you to load and have some change in pressure and temp but still be within the band so good idea
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacomdiver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 what bill said, i have just started a couple new load work ups in the last month and a half and found they vary a little in the funky weather we have had here lately, anywhere from 60' to 15' in the last month and a half. loads that were loaded all at one time grouped one day and didnt the next time it was shot at a different temp so all data is important even if it was negative data, it helps you decide where to go to next with the recipe </div></div>
if you are performimng OCW testing you will find the "band" that the barrel is tollerant of this allows you to load and have some change in pressure and temp but still be within the band so good idea
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacomdiver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 what bill said, i have just started a couple new load work ups in the last month and a half and found they vary a little in the funky weather we have had here lately, anywhere from 60' to 15' in the last month and a half. loads that were loaded all at one time grouped one day and didnt the next time it was shot at a different temp so all data is important even if it was negative data, it helps you decide where to go to next with the recipe </div></div>
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
If you’re going to develop loads in the winter you should buy or borrow a chrony. You may find a sweet load that shoot to your liking, (time to check the speed). Come summer when the difference is temp is +30 degrees from your winter temps and your load has gone to S##t, it would be time to chrony. You may find they the warmer temp has upped your velocity causing the change in group size and you can then go and adjust your charge to get back to your sweet spot.
If you’re going to develop loads in the winter you should buy or borrow a chrony. You may find a sweet load that shoot to your liking, (time to check the speed). Come summer when the difference is temp is +30 degrees from your winter temps and your load has gone to S##t, it would be time to chrony. You may find they the warmer temp has upped your velocity causing the change in group size and you can then go and adjust your charge to get back to your sweet spot.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
sounds good to me..... good ideas all around....... just cause their is snow on the grown doesnt mean i will miss out on range time.
thanks for the heads up every one
sounds good to me..... good ideas all around....... just cause their is snow on the grown doesnt mean i will miss out on range time.
thanks for the heads up every one
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
A while back I was shooting DCM at 200 yards utilizing 748 powder. As the temp rose so did my verticle stringing. A friend of mine who shoots Camp Perry places his loads in a cooler to keep them as stable as possible. One good thing about the new powders is that they are alot more temp. stable than some of the older ones. A few even tout this particular advantage. The only ajustments you should have to make are elevation corrections for the summer or winter if everything else is set up right.
A while back I was shooting DCM at 200 yards utilizing 748 powder. As the temp rose so did my verticle stringing. A friend of mine who shoots Camp Perry places his loads in a cooler to keep them as stable as possible. One good thing about the new powders is that they are alot more temp. stable than some of the older ones. A few even tout this particular advantage. The only ajustments you should have to make are elevation corrections for the summer or winter if everything else is set up right.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
One more thing to watch is pressure increase. if you are running a max load in the winter, watch for excess pressure signs,( primer flow etc. ) in the summer. Back off a little in summer a go hotter in winter.
One more thing to watch is pressure increase. if you are running a max load in the winter, watch for excess pressure signs,( primer flow etc. ) in the summer. Back off a little in summer a go hotter in winter.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
thanks for the heads up
thanks for the heads up
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
Personally, I have some ammo loaded for hunting that I have labeled to NOT use in hot weather. Just for the temperature difference reason.
But they sure do shoot really good in the 40 to 30*F weather.
Personally, I have some ammo loaded for hunting that I have labeled to NOT use in hot weather. Just for the temperature difference reason.
But they sure do shoot really good in the 40 to 30*F weather.
Re: load testing in the winter good or bad idea
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: junk yard dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing to watch is pressure increase. if you are running a max load in the winter, watch for excess pressure signs,( primer flow etc. ) in the summer. Back off a little in summer a go hotter in winter.</div></div>
This is really the important part. If you have a hot load that you worked up at sub 0 degrees and you try to use that same load when it hits 90 in the summer there is almost no doubt you will have some serious pressure issues. You would be surprised at the difference in muzzle velocities with temp changes.
Best thing to do is get a chonograph (every reloader and long range shooter needs one in my opinion), and when you test loads record the conditions and write down velocities. This information is priceless in the future. It will allow you to estimate the muzzle velocity based on temp without setting up the chronograph everytime.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: junk yard dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing to watch is pressure increase. if you are running a max load in the winter, watch for excess pressure signs,( primer flow etc. ) in the summer. Back off a little in summer a go hotter in winter.</div></div>
This is really the important part. If you have a hot load that you worked up at sub 0 degrees and you try to use that same load when it hits 90 in the summer there is almost no doubt you will have some serious pressure issues. You would be surprised at the difference in muzzle velocities with temp changes.
Best thing to do is get a chonograph (every reloader and long range shooter needs one in my opinion), and when you test loads record the conditions and write down velocities. This information is priceless in the future. It will allow you to estimate the muzzle velocity based on temp without setting up the chronograph everytime.
