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Long action with 7SAUM/280AI/284 Winchester?

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ormandj

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Nov 5, 2009
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I'm considering a move to long action, as I'd like a little more velocity out of the 7mm I'm building, but I'm not wanting to go to 28 Nosler levels at this point in time. I realize an XM action would be a better fit, but with the lack of magazine options, and spotty stock options (I love my MDT HNT26, but XM is apparently not on the table currently, as is the case with a lot of stocks - SA/LA are easy to come by) I'm considering a LA.

I know there are better fits for LA such as 28 Nosler/300 PRC, but I'm not going for extreme velocity (and associated recoil). This will be in a lightweight rifle, so I'm not looking to destroy my shoulder, especially as I'll be practicing at the range quite frequently with it. XM length seems perfect, but only MDT makes magazines, and finding stocks is such a disaster, I'm not sure I want to risk it.

Are there any major downsides to running things like 7SAUM/280AI/284 Winchester/6.5PRC/etc on a long action, aside from the ounce or two of additional weight and slightly longer bolt stroke? I'm concerned about magazine feeding with the cartridges being in the 3.1-3.3" COAL range.
 
280AI would be my pic for a long action
It would fill the mag well and you basically get 7 saum performance.
At 3.3 7 saum with the longest of bullets is going to be running out of neck I’d imagine and that’s still a lot wiggle room in a 3.65 magazine.

7WSM would be a consideration but it’s basically dead with limited brass options.

280ai also has the best factory ammo selection.
 
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I've ran 7 saum 7 max 25 prc and never had a feeding issue accurate mags in a krg Whiskey 3 gen 6 arc nucleus long action.
 
I run my 7 Max throated long in a LP Fusion LA w HS mag, no issues.
 
What is the case capacity?
 
I have a 7 WSM long action (in my current picture), it is a beast. Norma 300 WSM brass is your best option (which is a very good option). You can do 7/300 WSM and save the fireforming, or straight 7 WSM without a ton of trouble. 7 WSM will give you more case capacity than 7 SAUM, 280 AI ect and makes more sense to step up to the long action for over 7 SAUM. you will get a nice bump in velocity, matching full 7 rem mag with the 180+ grain bullets. Someone needs to make a dedicated long action cartridge to replace 7 rem mag already, but the wsm is about as close as we have right now. It has its downsides as well, but is more than capable.
 
kyzim311 said:
I have a 7 WSM long action (in my current picture), it is a beast. Norma 300 WSM brass is your best option (which is a very good option). You can do 7/300 WSM and save the fireforming, or straight 7 WSM without a ton of trouble. 7 WSM will give you more case capacity than 7 SAUM, 280 AI ect and makes more sense to step up to the long action for over 7 SAUM. you will get a nice bump in velocity, matching full 7 rem mag with the 180+ grain bullets. Someone needs to make a dedicated long action cartridge to replace 7 rem mag already, but the wsm is about as close as we have right now. It has its downsides as well, but is more than capable.
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Do you just neck down the 300 wsm with false shoulder and shoot it in the 7 wsm chamber and it fireforms to your 7 wsm nothing extra? I agree with you where is the new fancy 7mm we have 6.5 and 30 cals ect but no 7mm.
 
Or better yet 7-300 SM
 
I appreciate all of the suggestions. Some of these sound like amazing cartridges, but it seems like we’ll be up in the 30-40ft/lb range for recoil. The chase for more velocity/heavier projectiles never ends - this rifle is going to be around 9-10lbs max with optics and suppressor, and I tend to put 25-100 rounds down range every weekend. I don’t know how my shoulder is going to feel (no brakes for me, 100% suppressed).
 
Schw15 said:
Do you just neck down the 300 wsm with false shoulder and shoot it in the 7 wsm chamber and it fireforms to your 7 wsm nothing extra? I agree with you where is the new fancy 7mm we have 6.5 and 30 cals ect but no 7mm.
Click to expand...
yes, size a little and feel for a slight crush on the false shoulder. Also, long throat on the chamber to seat the bullet way out there.
 
ormandj said:
I appreciate all of the suggestions. Some of these sound like amazing cartridges, but it seems like we’ll be up in the 30-40ft/lb range for recoil. The chase for more velocity/heavier projectiles never ends - this rifle is going to be around 9-10lbs max with optics and suppressor, and I tend to put 25-100 rounds down range every weekend. I don’t know how my shoulder is going to feel (no brakes for me, 100% suppressed).
Click to expand...
you shouldn't be that high with anything mentioned here, 9 lb with 7 wsm (one of the hot rounds mentioned here) should be in the mid 20's ft/lbs of recoil. I think all of these are going to be in a 200 fps window (maybe less) with the same bullet.
 
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What suppressor? I don't have mine yet I plan on shooting 100% suppressed once it comes in but from my buddies suppressors they seem to cut out just as much recoil as the brakes.
 
kyzim311 said:
yes, size a little and feel for a slight crush on the false shoulder. Also, long throat on the chamber to seat the bullet way out there.
Click to expand...
Nice the 7 wsm seems perfect but no brass but that would fix that problem. What kind of barrel life?
 
Schw15 said:
Nice the 7 wsm seems perfect but no brass but that would fix that problem. What kind of barrel life?
Click to expand...
Norma makes 300 wsm brass, 7/300 wsm is a good option because of this. I haven't shot the barrel out so not sure, but 2000 +- seems reasonable depending on how hard you push it.
 
Steel head said:
My 7 saum is pretty trouble free for 1500, after that I have to start adding powder and then it’s not worth playing catch up at about 1900.
Click to expand...
Yeah sounds about right when target shooting. I usually run 10 shot strings sometimes more when I'm on fire haha
 
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I have a 284 on a LA. Not as much room left in the mag as I was expecting- (that was with a 185 nosler) and it feeds very smooth from AICS mags.

I don't have my notes on it right now but I was getting a little better velocity than what was published in my manuals and wasn't pushing anything hard. It got moved to the back burner- because the only bullet available at the time was the 185 and I had some weird fliers and issues at distance that seemed like bullet issues. At first I had half a box of 168 bergers and it was incredibly accurate with those and easy to load for.

Doesn't seem like you would get much good out of Ackley improving the 284.... it's already a pretty modern looking case- even with its age.
 
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SmartDonkey said:
I have a 284 on a LA. Not as much room left in the mag as I was expecting- (that was with a 185 nosler) and it feeds very smooth from AICS mags.

I don't have my notes on it right now but I was getting a little better velocity than what was published in my manuals and wasn't pushing anything hard. It got moved to the back burner- because the only bullet available at the time was the 185 and I had some weird fliers and issues at distance that seemed like bullet issues. At first I had half a box of 168 bergers and it was incredibly accurate with those and easy to load for.

Doesn't seem like you would get much good out of Ackley improving the 284.... it's already a pretty modern looking case- even with its age.
Click to expand...
Yea
With the common f class throats it would fit a LA magazine well.
 
kyzim311 said:
you shouldn't be that high with anything mentioned here, 9 lb with 7 wsm (one of the hot rounds mentioned here) should be in the mid 20's ft/lbs of recoil. I think all of these are going to be in a 200 fps window (maybe less) with the same bullet.
Click to expand...

The 7 SAUM is in the low 20s throwing 180grs at 2800ish in a reasonable length barrel. The 7-300 PRC, for example, is likely in the mid 30s to 40 ft/lb range and would be tossing the same bullet at 3200fps; I believe it’s actually a little more brutal than the 28 Nosler. That kind of recoil isn’t fun to me for 25 rounds, much less 100, and I’m not shooting past a mile.

Schw15 said:
What suppressor? I don't have mine yet I plan on shooting 100% suppressed once it comes in but from my buddies suppressors they seem to cut out just as much recoil as the brakes.
Click to expand...

On my lightweight rifles, I have a TBAC Ultra7 (gen1) that I primarily use. It definitely cuts down on recoil, but not as much as a good brake.

Steel head said:
Yea
With the common f class throats it would fit a LA magazine well.
Click to expand...
Hm, that might be an option then. I’ve read nothing but good things about 284 Winchester. I’m going to be using a 20” barrel, so I’ll try to dig around and see what velocities people are getting with them throated out further for the higher BC projectiles.
 
ormandj said:
The 7 SAUM is in the low 20s throwing 180grs at 2800ish in a reasonable length barrel. The 7-300 PRC, for example, is likely in the mid 30s to 40 ft/lb range and would be tossing the same bullet at 3200fps; I believe it’s actually a little more brutal than the 28 Nosler. That kind of recoil isn’t fun to me for 25 rounds, much less 100, and I’m not shooting past a mile.



On my lightweight rifles, I have a TBAC Ultra7 (gen1) that I primarily use. It definitely cuts down on recoil, but not as much as a good brake.


Hm, that might be an option then. I’ve read nothing but good things about 284 Winchester. I’m going to be using a 20” barrel, so I’ll try to dig around and see what velocities people are getting with them throated out further for the higher BC projectiles.
Click to expand...
2800 in a pretty short barrel with 180’s
2950 was easy in 28”
With a good brake recoil is less than a 6.5 suppressed AIAX at a similar weight

F class 284’s are commonly in the 2750-2800 range with moderate loads in 30” barrels.
 
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ormandj said:
The 7 SAUM is in the low 20s throwing 180grs at 2800ish in a reasonable length barrel. The 7-300 PRC, for example, is likely in the mid 30s to 40 ft/lb range and would be tossing the same bullet at 3200fps; I believe it’s actually a little more brutal than the 28 Nosler. That kind of recoil isn’t fun to me for 25 rounds, much less 100, and I’m not shooting past a mile.



On my lightweight rifles, I have a TBAC Ultra7 (gen1) that I primarily use. It definitely cuts down on recoil, but not as much as a good brake.


Hm, that might be an option then. I’ve read nothing but good things about 284 Winchester. I’m going to be using a 20” barrel, so I’ll try to dig around and see what velocities people are getting with them throated out further for the higher BC projectiles.
Click to expand...
I'm waiting on the ultra 9 gen 2 and that's what my buddies had that seemed really good.
 
ormandj said:
The 7 SAUM is in the low 20s throwing 180grs at 2800ish in a reasonable length barrel. The 7-300 PRC, for example, is likely in the mid 30s to 40 ft/lb range and would be tossing the same bullet at 3200fps; I believe it’s actually a little more brutal than the 28 Nosler. That kind of recoil isn’t fun to me for 25 rounds, much less 100, and I’m not shooting past a mile.
Click to expand...
There is only one comment mentioning the 7-300PRC and that does not fit your description to begin with. the 280AI-7 WSM range fits what you are talking about best. It is just a matter of what velocity you want to sling the bullets at. I can confirm the 7 wsm feeds from AI mags just fine with long 180s seated way out, 300 win mag ones. 7 saum and 284 could be more fun to get to feed as they will be on the short side.
 
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Steel head said:
2800 in a pretty short barrel with 180’s
2950 was easy in 28”
With a good brake recoil is less than a 6.5 suppressed AIAX at a similar weight

F class 284’s are commonly in the 2750-2800 range with moderate loads in 30” barrels.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I’m going to be rocking a 20” barrel, I have to hike with the thing hence the light weight. I don’t shoot braked, I’ve got enough tinnitus already. 7 SAUM recoil and maybe a little bit more is about the max that doesn’t fatigue me quickly when shooting more than a few rounds. It sounds like 280AI is parity for the 7 SAUM in a longer (but thinner) cartridge. 7 WSM looks like it might have a little more velocity with a little more recoil. I’ll have to read up on the pros/cons; it seems like the 7WSM/280AI will do better in the LA than a 7 SAUM re: @kyzim311 ’s comment, but I wonder if I’m leaving accuracy on the table. I know 7 SAUM brass is periodically available via ADG; is Peterson the go-to for high quality 280AI? What about 7 WSM? Thanks everyone!
 
ormandj said:
Yeah, I’m going to be rocking a 20” barrel, I have to hike with the thing hence the light weight. I don’t shoot braked, I’ve got enough tinnitus already. 7 SAUM recoil and maybe a little bit more is about the max that doesn’t fatigue me quickly when shooting more than a few rounds. It sounds like 280AI is parity for the 7 SAUM in a longer (but thinner) cartridge. 7 WSM looks like it might have a little more velocity with a little more recoil. I’ll have to read up on the pros/cons; it seems like the 7WSM/280AI will do better in the LA than a 7 SAUM re: @kyzim311 ’s comment, but I wonder if I’m leaving accuracy on the table. I know 7 SAUM brass is periodically available via ADG; is Peterson the go-to for high quality 280AI? What about 7 WSM? Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
7 wsm brass source is Norma in the form of 300 wsm. For simplicity, the 7/300 wsm saves a step as the shoulder on the 7 wsm is 0.050" longer than the 270 or 300 wsm. You can fire form it, but not much difference really either way. Norma makes good brass, so no accuracy loss there. Just make sure you can get your brass for whatever before you go that route. Right now the more mainstream cartridges are getting more support, so while they might make brass, you might not get your hands on it. None of the cartridges in contention are in any way bad and should fit the bill, just a matter of how fast you want to go.
 
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ormandj said:
Yeah, I’m going to be rocking a 20” barrel, I have to hike with the thing hence the light weight. I don’t shoot braked, I’ve got enough tinnitus already. 7 SAUM recoil and maybe a little bit more is about the max that doesn’t fatigue me quickly when shooting more than a few rounds. It sounds like 280AI is parity for the 7 SAUM in a longer (but thinner) cartridge. 7 WSM looks like it might have a little more velocity with a little more recoil. I’ll have to read up on the pros/cons; it seems like the 7WSM/280AI will do better in the LA than a 7 SAUM re: @kyzim311 ’s comment, but I wonder if I’m leaving accuracy on the table. I know 7 SAUM brass is periodically available via ADG; is Peterson the go-to for high quality 280AI? What about 7 WSM? Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
A friend built a nice hunter rifle in 7 saum recently.
It’s fairly light and recoil isn’t bad at all with a bare barrel.
I’d say about 270ish recoil
 
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280 ackley is very accurate don't worry about it not being as accurate as others. That was the caliber I got my first hits at 1 mile boy it shot great I regret 100% of rebarreling to a bigger cal. 180 eldm like 2780 26 inch barrel I wasn't pushing it hard at all it was the lower lower node but shot so great I didn't chase speed. The second time I shot 1 mile I went 4 for 5 on a rock that was close to size of man size gong. Now it was the second time and my drops were off and my spotter was terrible so once I got everything figured it that's what I did.
 
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Schw15 said:
280 ackley is very accurate don't worry about it not being as accurate as others. That was the caliber I got my first hits at 1 mile boy it shot great I regret 100% of rebarreling to a bigger cal. 180 eldm like 2780 26 inch barrel I wasn't pushing it hard at all it was the lower lower node but shot so great I didn't chase speed. The second time I shot 1 mile I went 4 for 5 on a rock that was close to size of man size gong. Now it was the second time and my drops were off and my spotter was terrible so once I got everything figured it that's what I did.
Click to expand...
My first fire loads with 7 saum on my first barrel with 180’s shot AMAZING at 2800fps
 
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Steel head said:
2800 in a pretty short barrel with 180’s
2950 was easy in 28”
With a good brake recoil is less than a 6.5 suppressed AIAX at a similar weight

F class 284’s are commonly in the 2750-2800 range with moderate loads in 30” barrels.
Click to expand...
Hope I didn't mess up buying a suppressor haha
 
Love the 7WSM 3010fps with the 190's is golden. 1400rds/barrel is average over my last 4 barrels. Recoil is very manageable and I love what it does to steel out to a mile!
 
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SmartDonkey said:
Doesn't seem like you would get much good out of Ackley improving the 284.... it's already a pretty modern looking case- even with its age.
Click to expand...
It won't be a huge gain, I started wanting a 284 Shehane and figured I'm going through the trouble of having dies made, might as well add the 40* shoulder. I'm hoping for 2900 or a bit better from the 180gr bullets
Steel head said:
Yea
With the common f class throats it would fit a LA magazine well.
Click to expand...
I am putting mine in a long action with a DBM so I can mag feed it.
 
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AA1DE6C1-CDBE-4389-A63E-BF8D53F3C2BF.jpeg


Long action 7WSM for me!
 
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