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Suppressors Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

ejg

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Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 9, 2008
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Ireland
www.pse-composites.com
I’m not sure if any of these Euro Suppressors made by Roedale Precision in Germany have made it over the pond yet. In the meantime we have a huge selection of suppressors to choose from in Europe, with the UK also having several manufacturers.
Suppressors have come a long way since the days of the huge and heavy early models, now we can tailor a suppressor for a specific need. The new Delta suppressor is of modular design, meaning it is not a tube filled with baffles but rather baffle sections that are screwed behind each other. Baffle shape was optimised with help of the University of Applied Physics in Osnabrueck. Delta’s are front mounted , have no more awkward rear barrel bushing and unnecessary weight of an over barrel design.
The delta suppressors are offered in three different materials, parkerised steel, stainless steel (bead blasted or TiAlN coated) and aluminium. There are two hole sizes, up to 6.5mm and up to 9.3mm.

This all means that we might find exactly the right suppressor for the task ahead.
At the moment I am using four deltas on my rifles.
My 223 tikka stainless has a stainless bead blasted Delta V (5 baffle) this suppressor weighs 17.5 oz, my remmy 243 sporter which I use as a light deer rifle and also for fox or long range crows has a Delta V “Light” mounted. This mod weighing just under 10 oz is all aluminium except the first two of the five baffles are stainless. The stainless baffles are better at taking the brunt of the hot gases and will prolong the life of the suppressor.
Last my 308 sako which is used for deer and the odd target outing has a steel delta 5 for the range. This one gets taped up with cammo tape and can fry inside as much as it wants, they are tough. For deer and long walks in the hills I use an “ultra Light” all aluminium Delta V , like the others five baffles and 7” long but only 7 oz. At last one can leave a suppressor mounted even for long walks or off-hand shooting. The rifle is less top heavy when slung over the shoulder.
Another advantage of the Roedale design is that one can reduce size and weight of the suppressor by removing baffles which of course leads to less noise reduction . Baffles can also be bought separately and are interchangeable

Each section is sealed via an O-ring
DSCN0495.jpg

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Top; Light delta V , mid; Ultra Light, bottom; ead blasted stainless.
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edi
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Very nice. I like the stacking feature. 2 for entry, 3 for backup, 4 and 5 for longer distance work.. I like the concept, simple straght foward machine work too.. Thanks for the pics...
STL
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Be interesting to see the Legality of these as written in the NFA Rules.I remember reading awhile back about MFR repairs to a registered silencer and they were pretty strict as to altering the length of the can from the measurement on the Form 4.Even being a Roedale fan,I have my doubts about the O ring design holding up under Semi-Auto fire due to the extreme heat generated.I'm sure Pete Lincoln will chime in on this at some point and answer any questions.
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

It would be interesting to see, (assuming the NFA doesnt get butthurt), which part would be the registered part.

I'd assume the main threaded housing, however, i wonder what the life expectancy of the blast baffle threads are. Perhaps 1 random baffle somewhere in the middle, so it can be interchanged/fixed?
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be interesting to see, (assuming the NFA doesnt get butthurt), which part would be the registered part.

I'd assume the main threaded housing, however, i wonder what the life expectancy of the blast baffle threads are. Perhaps 1 random baffle somewhere in the middle, so it can be interchanged/fixed? </div></div>

You should be able to fix it,but the MFR needs to do it as you as a user are not permitted to possess extra baffles of baffle stacks.Again,I need to go back and read the rules again to be sure.Pretty interesting concept and design.Roedale does their homework before releasing anything from what I've seen.
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

wow thats a great concept, just lengthen as cal/suppression need increases...man I wish we didnt have the loops to jump through to make The Man happy...I would love to own a suppressor for each rifle I won...

thanks for the great pics.

DT
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Edi..probably wouldnt fly over here with the bullshit regs on moderators. Having said that the quality of mods available here are world class both in weight and suppression...the hassle in terms of expense and time taken to aquire require some patience...
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Malaga, drove through your home town last weekend. Still there.
GAA pitch was sold a few years back and moved further away...

Thankfully we only need permission for a suppressor, no registering of the actual suppressor. Very often the only writing on suppressors here is what thread and what max cal.

O-rings, the only danger I've seen so far is that one might pinch the o-ring when screwing together. Then again I only have a bolt action and the hottest I run them is a 20 round string at the range with the 308.

I think the biggest innovation are the light and ultra light Delta versions. The ultra light weighs only around 1/3 of conventional suppressors combined with small size. Perfect for hunting.
What is also very good about the Delta's is that one only needs to replace the rear end if one needs to fit the suppressor to differently threaded rifle. Cost is only a fraction of a second or new suppressor.

This Sika stag I bagged last Sunday, less than 200 yds further on we got a second one 20 min later. The first suppressed shot didn't seem to bother the second one.
Image0142.jpg


edi
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Edi, nice little write up, thanks.Glad you like them.

just a couple of corrections, we've 3 basic sizes of baffle bore on these suppressors.
up to 6.5mm ( you can use these on a 7mm but make sure your barrel is threaded right)
up to 9.3mm, these work on anything from 7mm up to 9.3
up to 12mm, these work on things like the .450 Marlin, .416 Rigby, .458 win mag etc.

4 baffles or more will get you the required reduction to under the EU required noise regulations when using full power hunting or match ammunition. less than 4 baffles is ok on selected calibers.
The best balance of weight-length and noise reduction seems to come from 5 baffles.


the O rings are heat rated to a little over 200°C which is fine for a hunting type suppressor. The units actualy work without the O rings fitted if need be.
We've a higher grade O ring ( expensive damn thing) in the model designed for semi / full auto use.There are some QD versions also available shortly.
You can nip the O ring if you're not carefull. I just assembled 100 suppressors last night and only nipped an O ring once, so its not realy an issue.

Life expectancy on the alloy baffles is actualy pretty good. They are made from a specialy manufactured aluminium and are hardened to 400HV ( 41+ Rockwell) so they are pretty tough, one must remember that these things are designed as a hunting type suppressor and not for a wargasm shooting session on the range, Weve tested them out on a bunch of calibers from .22lr ( yes i actualy use one on my Sako Quad which is threaded M18x1.5) through and including .223, .260rem,several 30calibers, 8x57, 9.3, 338winmag, 375 H&H 458 winmag, .416 rigby.
Ive also done a load of semi auto shooting with my H&K MR223 and no ill effects to the suppressors where noted.

Sure if you bang away all day with a magnum or use one on high volume semi automatic you will wear the baffles out due to the high temps. but even if you do, replacements are available. And if you are using a magnum, I suggest replacing the 1st 2 baffles with the TiAIN coated Stainless versions.
Another good point is the very little zero shift from suppressed to non suppressed. and the pricing is a lot more attaractive than a titanium unit.
I'm expecting these suppressors to be very popular in the UK and indeed Europe wide.
Like you pointed out, we had the backing and support of one of the top technical Universities in on the further developement of these and the scientific input was very valuable.

We are also donating a % of all the sales in the UK of these units to the charity Help for Heroes, which is a very worthwhile cause helping our wounded service personel.

Happy Shooting.. Pete
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Pete - I'll be adding one to my build when the QD version is ready and I get the paperwork done.

Is there any longevity benefit or otherwise in having the more expensive O rings on a suppressor for use on a bolt rifle?

Cheers

Andy

PS...great to see your support for Help for Heroes!
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Pete , what akuminum are you useing?
I was thinking about making an all aluminum can for my bolt action 308 made from 7068 with a 17-4 blast baffel

The 7068 has a yield strength about 30% higher than the more common 7075 but i'm wondering if the added cost is worth the strength and if its needed over the typical 7075 strength
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Now that would be telling JJ.
its a trade secret,
we have it made specialy for use in sound moderators, based on the specifications recommended to us by the university.
So far I hve been very impressed by the performance.
very very strong.
We tested to see exactly how light we could go, and how thin we could machine before we arrived at the limits. I have a suppressor for my .260 Rem that weights only 165g or 5.82 oz. that is amaizingly light. as light as many suppressors for .22LR. it has 4 baffles and m18x1 thread and works very satisfactorily giving around 26dB reduction.
I wouldn't release this type of suppressor for sale, because some one would put it on a magnum and split or burn it out at some point and i'd cop for some flack no doubt, but for personal use the thing is amaizing.

The Delta IV Ultralight weighs 200g
The Delta V Ultralight weighs 220g

when swapping the 1st 2 baffles for TiAIN coated stainless steel you only ad a total of 50g ( 1.76 oz) to the weight of the suppressor.
Which makes every one wonder wether the inclreased cost of Titanium is realy worth it for a hunting type suppressor.
That may be a different story for a military model though, hence we are currently looking into titanium.

I'd say it pays dividends to go with the higher spec alloy.
but make sure it is readily machinable, can be hardened and anodised.

regards Pete
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Hi Pete,

Your suppressors seem to be similar in the construction and baffle style to the A-Tec CMM suppressors?

If you dont mind sharing how they differ from those or are they better in certain respects
wink.gif


Take Care!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Hi Tuukka.
yes the A-Tec CMM is similar,(as are a couple more, one from Denmark and another Scandinavian model ive seen) in that the baffles screw into each other, and it is an excellent suppressor.
Where ours exells is that its got the edge on suppression and weight due to the scientific input from the university.Our baffle geometry is shaped differently and machined differently, the diameter is less and the weight is less bringing performance to an optimum. The knurling ( on the production models) is grippier and nicely done. and ours is cheaper RRP.
Also ours is also available in a lengthened spigoted type rear end to suit barrel threads with spigots, is made of specialy manufactured alloy, has stainless TiAIN coated baffles available as an upgrade and a few other points.
See you at the IWA..rgds Pete
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

..


BATF compliance? DOA in the States.

But for Europe? A nice simple way to machine a second gen, volume based suppressor baffle set that can be made and sold inexpensively.

O-Rings and heat? Nope.

Thanks for the great pics.


..
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

crazy laws eh. quite a bit of discussion here in Germany at the mo about what is actualy meant in the law by a silencer (schalldampfer) all the last states is that:

A Silencer ( schalldämpfer) is an implement that can be mounted to a barrel of a firearm in order to greatly reduce the noise.

the whole legality of using silencers, suppressors call em what you want is hinging on 2 words.

1. Schalldämpfer the word dämpfung indicates a large to total reduction. but calling the item a Schalldämmer the word dämmung inducates a lesser reduction,

I expect this is similar to the reason that in the UK the things are called sound moderators.

1. Greatly, ( erheblich) the authorities fail to say exactly what they mean by this. exactly how many decibels reduction is considered permissable and how many arent.

its one hell of a grey area.

In the law on noise pollution, the law on health and safety, the statutory emmision levels set in the public regulations act etc ( I actualy found around a dozen different laws and regulations) the firing of a firearm in a place that is open, ( any forest, woods or fields) accessable by the public ( any outdoor or indoor range) basicaly anywhere, is absolutely illegal if the dB level is above 137dB.

So weve basicaly 2 sets off laws that completely contradict each other,

What the authorities need to set is the permissable dB reduction level within the firearms laws. but i cant see that happening until some one just starts selling the things and using the things or when some one using firearms professionaly ( such as a forestry official or professional hunter) takes his employer to the industrial tribunal and when the shit hits the fan the whole thing will have to be proved by the courts.

Weve different laws in each contry throughout Europe, despite having a United Europe ( bullshit) firearms sound moderators range from not bieng registerable at all, to basicaly penalty of death for owning ( well you get my drift)

I know I dont ever wantb to fire a rifle again without one unless i realy realy have to.

Certainly our suppresor, moderator, call it what you want is idealy suited to the EU market. and thats what it was designed to be. The O rings are fine on a hunting rifle to match rifle, the higher heat rated ones are ok on semi auto, but if you are going to bang of a shed load of rounds in a semi-full auto, then O rings arent an answer, and thats why the Xtrem ( thats the name) model of the Delta series hasn't got any O rings.


Edi hows the performance comparing to other models youve used?

rgds Pete
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Pete,I have almost given up on trying to evaluate sound moderation of a suppressor by ear. One never really has the same conditions over the year to be able to judge when testing a new suppressor. The same suppressor will seem to be extremely efficient and sometimes less depending on the location that a shot is fired. Just too many variables.
On the other hand I shoot two three times a week and after a while one can say which suppressor seems overall better.
To my ear of all the suppressors I had previously none reduced noise more than the delta. The people that come into my shop are all suprised of how small they are especially compared to what is on the market. Weight is the other issue, some older suppressors weighing 1000 grams are still in use and the average weight of modern suppressors being around 600grams.
Huge difference between swinging a 600 gram lump or a small 200gram delta on a light hunting rifle.
I managed to get two sika deer last weekend with my light weight remmy 243. Barrel chopped from 24" to 20", saved 135 grams, delta light 275grams, so only 3" longer with suppressor and only 140grams added weight compared to the original unsuppressed remmy sporter. Stock is PSE carbon ultralight 650grams. Also just testing a german Kaps scope and their new binos. This sika stag was taken running in a dark wood and pissing rain. Very happy with the handling of the rifle.
edi
DSCN5129.jpg
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swedish guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good shooting Edi, as always.

Best regards Chris </div></div>

Thanks Chris,
but be sure it's not " always"
sometimes even the dog seems to laugh at me.

edi
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pete,I have almost given up on trying to evaluate sound moderation of a suppressor by ear. One never really has the same conditions over the year to be able to judge when testing a new suppressor. The same suppressor will seem to be extremely efficient and sometimes less depending on the location that a shot is fired. Just too many variables.
On the other hand I shoot two three times a week and after a while one can say which suppressor seems overall better.
To my ear of all the suppressors I had previously none reduced noise more than the delta. The people that come into my shop are all suprised of how small they are especially compared to what is on the market. Weight is the other issue, some older suppressors weighing 1000 grams are still in use and the average weight of modern suppressors being around 600grams.
Huge difference between swinging a 600 gram lump or a small 200gram delta on a light hunting rifle.
I managed to get two sika deer last weekend with my light weight remmy 243. Barrel chopped from 24" to 20", saved 135 grams, delta light 275grams, so only 3" longer with suppressor and only 140grams added weight compared to the original unsuppressed remmy sporter. Stock is PSE carbon ultralight 650grams. Also just testing a german Kaps scope and their new binos. This sika stag was taken running in a dark wood and pissing rain. Very happy with the handling of the rifle.
edi
DSCN5129.jpg
</div></div>


Good looking buck there. Went out tonight with daughter and passed on 3 blacktails. Looks alot like the Pacific Northwest US there.
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Pete,

how compact could one of these go on a .223AI using steel baffles?
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

we got a 16.6dB reduction with 2 baffles and a 20,9dB reduction with 3 baffles, that was on a .308win. the .223 will be slightly less noisy than the .308 so you'd likely get away with 3 baffles and stay under the recomended peak exposure limit.

If i was buying one i'd buy an ultralight and a couple of space TiAIN stainless baffles, and have a play around until i had it configured exactly like I want. I cant say ive noticed a change in impact point when swapping the 1st 2 baffles for stainless versions, and on stiffer barrels there is hardly a change with or without anyhow.

we just got a batch of 400 suppressors off to anodising yesterday, these are the newer production models with the nicer knurling and engraving on the back of the rear end.
regards Pete
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was planning on doing, chuck in a couple of steel baffles for range use and alu ultralight setup for hunting. 6.5x47 so not a lot of powder being burnt.
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Hi Zak,
as there is no one international standard we followed the UK Forestry Commission guide lines

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/crsafety4.pdf/$file/crsafety4.pdf

as these moderators are designed for civilian use and the state forestry agencies is one of our target customers it made sence to test to thier requirements.

rgds Pete
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Hi Pete,
what model do you advise for a TRG 42 in 338 lapua?
Thanks
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jp67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Pete,
what model do you advise for a TRG 42 in 338 lapua?
Thanks </div></div>
Sorry JP, for the late reply, Pete must have not been on here for a while. Me neither....
I have a stainless steel Delta 5 baffle mod here which has up to 338Lapua written on the box.
Pete could confirm what he thinks might be best.
e-mail him on [email protected]
edi
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

i didnt think suppressors from out side the country where available, to the general public, thats what kept me from buying an HK B&T ump suppressor
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

They must be busy, I ordered a delta can 10 days ago
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i didnt think suppressors from out side the country where available, to the general public, thats what kept me from buying an HK B&T ump suppressor </div></div>

You are partially correct, imported Silencers are available to FFL/SOT's, classified as a Pre-Sample, or to LE Departments/Government.
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Bump.


Finally got to use my Delta. It's great. Extremely light, works well.
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

This would be awesome if an American vendor did a collaboration depending on ITAR and and technology import regs. I could see this as being very popular for "sporting use" if ATF allows.
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

Any suggestions for getting the damn thing apart after putting a heap of rounds through it? I'm thinking soft jawed vise + 'oil filter tool'.


Would something like zinc anti-sieze lubricant work to keep it from becoming insanely difficult to disassemble?
 
Re: Looking at Roedale’s Delta Suppressors

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pete - I'll be adding one to my build when the QD version is ready and I get the paperwork done.</div></div>

Is this going to be 'a real thing'


I would buy one


Please advise