I was thinking about buying an AR-15 in the higher end and $2000 ought to buy something pretty nice. It would have to be a piston gun, 223 and capable of 1moa or better. Any suggestions?
- Thread starter the once-ler
- Start date
You can get something pretty nice for half of what you perceive you need to spend. Consider an impingement gun. A good match conditioned commercial equivalent of the M16A4 from WOP or CLE will provide a meaningful experience, that's to say, you can learn everything there is know about good shooting with such a rifle.
Why does it have to be a piston? Are you running a suppressor and worried about the action getting dirty or is it a reliability thing?
Anyways for 2000 you could build one with off the shelf parts that will shoot MOA reliably AND have some money left over for optics.
Anyways for 2000 you could build one with off the shelf parts that will shoot MOA reliably AND have some money left over for optics.
Plenty of high quality ARs on the market for $2k and under (considerably less money unless you are dead set on the piston setup) that are capable of achieving MOA and better accuracy assuming a shooter that knows how to operate a semi-auto properly and with decent ammo (reloads or otherwise) to feed it.
If you MUST have a piston gun, the POF P415 rifles in a variety of flavors/barrel lengths/etc. will get the job done well and for ~$2k.
Personally, I'd opt for a DI rifle/carbine and put the remainder of your $2k budget toward optics/mounts/upgrades (be they stocks/triggers/etc.)/ammo/mags/etc.
I just built one using hand picked off the shelf parts.
(Wilson Recon Upper)
Very happy with the results.
This is before I mounted the NXS Compact 2.5-10X42:
10 shot group @ 100yards (the flyer was me slipping off the rear bag)
(Wilson Recon Upper)
Very happy with the results.
This is before I mounted the NXS Compact 2.5-10X42:
10 shot group @ 100yards (the flyer was me slipping off the rear bag)
I already have optics ready to go. I did really like the look of the new gen4 POF's are they pretty accurate? Piston op for reliability and keeping the debris out of the action, I currently have and have owned DI weapons and it's just a PITA to clean the BCG, action / upper. I guess I'm just a neat freak. I have and am selling an HK-SL8-6 that is extremely accurate and has almost no POI shift that I was gonna do a G36 build off of but my ADD has kicked in and want to go back to an AR platform.
The Gen4 POFs were literally just released ~2mo ago so there isn't a lot of first-hand data out and about on them yet, but aside from the new chamber design (E2 to aid with extraction/reliability), newly revised ambi controls, and new tensioning screw setup/design, the heart of the rifles remain the same as the Gen 3 rifles which, in my experience, were/are highly capable with match ammo and quality reloads.
The POFs definitely run cleaner suppressed for longer between intervals of cleaning/maintenance, but don't kid yourself that they are "maintenance free" as many of the sales pitches, interweb lore, etc. would have you believe.
They do clean up nicely though!!
That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read posted about the AR -15 platform.
https://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/
I like the POFs, it's hard for me to justify buying one when I can build something with a white oak barrel that does the same thing for less money though.
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Yeah I'm in the same camp, oil it and go to the range. But that's the great thing about ARs, if the man wants a piston then the man can get a piston.
You can clean ar's if one of mine starts jamming I just spray some more oil on it. As far as spending 2000 on a MOA AR I think there several factory AR's that are capable of much better than MOA and cost much less. I would call my bushmaster varminter a 1/2 moa rifle all day long.
I've had piston guns from all of them and I've yet to be happy with the accuracy. The LWRC was better than the other but it still wasn't great, my LMT MRP as well as several standard non free floated uppers would shoot circles around it any day. We won't even go into the fact that pistons are a fix for a problem that doesn't exist and that every problem I've had from quality AR's has been on a piston gun. With that out of the way...
For $2K I would either go one of three ways. My first choice would be to spend another $300 and get a KAC LPR. I've got one and it's a fine piece. My second choice would be to spend a little more and get a JP or look for a used one for $2k. Third choice would be to buy a RRA predator pursuit or varmint for $1000 and spend the other grand configuring it the way you want it. Any of the three choice will get your a great and boringly accurate rifle.
For $2K I would either go one of three ways. My first choice would be to spend another $300 and get a KAC LPR. I've got one and it's a fine piece. My second choice would be to spend a little more and get a JP or look for a used one for $2k. Third choice would be to buy a RRA predator pursuit or varmint for $1000 and spend the other grand configuring it the way you want it. Any of the three choice will get your a great and boringly accurate rifle.
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Build something.
I have all the parts to build an SPR ish build and I went high end and I will have roughly 2k into it:
Krieger barrel/CLE bolt-550
Vltor MUR receiver-170
Geissele Mk4 13"-300
JP LMAS carrier and silent capture spring-325
Geissele SSA-E trigger-230
Syrac gas block-100
BCM Mod 4 CH-$45
Misc parts-$50
So roughly 1800 into the upper/trigger. I already have a lower I built out a few years ago thats un-used with an MOE stock I am going to run for a bit while I decide on a stock.
Throw a $100 lower and a $50 parts kit(minus trigger) and some type of stock(you could throw an A2 rifle stock on for 75 bucks or go to a PRS or the new LMT for 250-300).
So roughly 2000-2200 depending on stock choice and you're done and you have a more precise AR than any "factory" gun today.
If you went with a "cheaper" barrel like a White Oak, Douglass, Criterion you could save almost another $200 on the barrel cost. If you went with a regular M4 upper from BCM you would save another $50. Go with a "cheaper" hand guard, you could save another 50-100. Non adjustable gas block save 50. Regular BCG save ~125. So going with less expensive, not quite as high end parts you could build something in the 1600-1800 range complete.
I have all the parts to build an SPR ish build and I went high end and I will have roughly 2k into it:
Krieger barrel/CLE bolt-550
Vltor MUR receiver-170
Geissele Mk4 13"-300
JP LMAS carrier and silent capture spring-325
Geissele SSA-E trigger-230
Syrac gas block-100
BCM Mod 4 CH-$45
Misc parts-$50
So roughly 1800 into the upper/trigger. I already have a lower I built out a few years ago thats un-used with an MOE stock I am going to run for a bit while I decide on a stock.
Throw a $100 lower and a $50 parts kit(minus trigger) and some type of stock(you could throw an A2 rifle stock on for 75 bucks or go to a PRS or the new LMT for 250-300).
So roughly 2000-2200 depending on stock choice and you're done and you have a more precise AR than any "factory" gun today.
If you went with a "cheaper" barrel like a White Oak, Douglass, Criterion you could save almost another $200 on the barrel cost. If you went with a regular M4 upper from BCM you would save another $50. Go with a "cheaper" hand guard, you could save another 50-100. Non adjustable gas block save 50. Regular BCG save ~125. So going with less expensive, not quite as high end parts you could build something in the 1600-1800 range complete.
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My HK-SL-8-6 is a piston gun, functions flawlessly and is a 1 moa or better.. so by what you have said about owning pretty much all makes of piston ARs and they are all problematic you are saying anyone but HK hasn't figured out how to design a piston op AR that works right.. right? not to say the HK is exactly an ar but still there has to be one that has a good product that works correctly
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I do hate waiting for parts and having trouble finding stuff, last time I looked for a Kreiger barrel it was a nightmare and having one made well waiting a year don't jive with me. But if I do go that route I will deff be asking for a lot of help if you guys don't mind answering stupid questions.
Go back and read what I said again. I didn't say they are all problematic, I said every problem I've ever had with a quality AR has been with a piston gun. The piston barrel I had for my MRP as well as the LWRC ran flawlessly.
If your HK shoots MOA or better then stick a scope on it because that's as good as you're going to get and better than the 10 or so piston guns I've owned. Direct gas is more accurate and that's a proven fact.
I called up CLE said send me a Krieger SPR barrel with matched bolt, they said 2 weeks. I should have it next week.
I never would have expected that a DI gun would be more accurate.. Although I am fairly new to owning AR's and I know I got a shit-ton more to learn.
Who is CLE??
Compass Lake Engineering. Would be a very good choice for a barrel.
compass lake engineering.
see you guys are gonna know the good sources for all this stuff.. from what I understand 95% of the accuracy comes from the barrel
Well sort of. A good trigger will help you control the rifle better, reliable sights and consistent ammunition help too. What kind of ARs do you own right now and why do you think you need a 2000$ piston one? If it's just for giggles, you like the POF and have plenty of money I'd say go for it. Get the 16" and play around with it. If you are on a budget and think that spending 2000$ will automatically get you 2x the AR that a 1k dollar one is you might be mistaken though.
Before making any excursion into match conditioning, first get some basic marksmanship training in order that you may realize the advantages that can come from match conditioning. Just having a match conditioned rifle is not a substitute for inadequate marksmanship. Right now, you may think it's all about the gun; but, that's a fanatical view.
The reality is that if an accurate rifle for good shooting is the objective then your mindset must be about you. Begin with this fact: the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. This means if you are not hitting where aimed you either did not know where the barrel was pointed and/or you failed to maintain control of aim. With this basic understanding you should comprehend that any rifle that is not broken will allow for marksmanship development. Only after you peak to a plateau with rack grade supported by marksmanship skill will the match grade concept be useful.
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comfortechinc have you ever heard of brake cleaner? It cleans carbon instantly. Spray down gas tube, barrel and complete action. Then let dry (about10 seconds) then spray lube. Done cleaning except for cleaning the copper out of the bore.
Agree with Sterling Shooter's philosophy.
I also enjoy the thereputic relaxation of cleaning a weapon, just like reloading.
I also enjoy the thereputic relaxation of cleaning a weapon, just like reloading.
I used brake cleaner on an old PSA AR 15 that I owned and it turned the upper kinda white, like it took the finish off or something. And I think I have the handloading and rifle handling down now, I had my first true one hole group yesterday.
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Does that mean you think I am wrong?
