Looking for scope experience/advice

[Jackpine Cowboy]

I have been a long time off and lurker, but this is my first post.

My previous competitive shooting has been in vintage style, iron sight single shot and lever action rifles. I am interested in the NRL22 game and am looking to buy a scope to try it, with as little investment as I can get by without being foolishly tight. (but will readily admit that I am cheap!!) I own a fair number of "better" rimfires, but am planning on shooting a Ruger Precision (I understand my CZ455 will not qualify for Base Class)

I have narrowed my choices to Vortex Diamondback, Athlon Argos, either Gen 1 or Gen 2, all with the "Christmas tree" reticle, or a Athlon Talos with the ATMRI IR reticle (fairly fine, half Mil hash marks) All are 6-24x50. While I would probably use it at something in the range of 16x, I am assuming the clarity will be as good at 16x as a 4-16 at full power, plus having the higher magnification available.

I am thinking if starting out, because of my previous experience of using hold over/under instead of adjusting scope for each distance. My reasoning is that the lower end scope my not in the long term be that dependable, that is my previous experience and it will also be faster.

I am leaning towards one of the Athlons, primarily because I understand their customer service is great. I waffle back and forth on the three Athlons. I would like to go with the Talos, because it is the lowest price ($200) and am thinking, because I plan on holding over/under, the superior tracking of the Agros is not that important. Then I think that for another $70 bucks I should go to the Gen 1 Argos and get the FFP and the full Christmas tree. Then I look at what folks are saying about the benefits of the Gen 2 Argos and wonder if I am foolish not to spend the $400 have the benefits.

My additional question, should I go with the Argos Gen 2, is whether Mil or MOA. I was originally thinking MOA, because that my previous experience in both scopes and many years of vernier irons, I easily think in MOA. Plus, because I plan to hold over using the hashmarks, the graduations are 1 MOA vs 1/2 Mil, almost half the relative spacing.

Am interested in the opinion of folks with experience in any and/or all of these areas and feedback on whether or not my thinking is flawed and if I am missing some obvious points or choices.

I realize I am asking a lot of questions in one post, so if I should be breaking this up, please advise. A

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

The athlon talos, Argos and helos are nit very well made,i have had them all 3 ,i also don't think starting off you need a n.f. kahles,s&b or high end vortex..
JUST MY OPINION i would get a vortex diamondback tactical in mils minimum of 20-30 moa base. Then as you already know, grow or upgrade from there. I have 5 d.b. tactical scopes on different calibers,it has its limits but jeez what a good scope for the money..
BUY ONCE CRY ONCE thats the motto of the precision shooters world.. we have all done it....

 

[littlepod]

Choose mil/moa based on who you shoot with. If everyone that you shoot with shoots moa, then go moa, etc. Everyone I shoot with uses mils.

Athlon Argos would be what I would choose.

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

I shoot a vuduu v22 and have a vortex strike eagle on it now, 5-25x56 zero stop,locking turrets etc. And i have a kidd 1022 with the vortex d.b. tactical and only thing i wish it had was locking turrets...
The talos i felt the turets were to small,the argos gen 1 the turrets marks did not line up,(maybe im o.c.d.) the helos would not paralax consistantly returned 3x then they upgraded me to a midas tac,, no complaints with that scope but its about 500.00 more,i use it on a ar platform 6.5 grendel for coyote hunting... And yes customer service was great,but so is vortex or nightforce. Just my 2 nickels...

 

[Boxerglocker]

RPRimfire and Athlon Argos Gen2 6-24x50 Mil would be a good base class rifle.

 

[fdkay]

I'm not much into recommending Chinese made scopes, but if you don't mind the wait, this would be an excellent choice, they also have a mil version:

SH4 6-24X50 GEN2 FFP MOA VPR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 34mm Tube

7-9 Week Backorder Arken SH4 GENII: 6-24x50 Lifetime Warranty Precision Tracking Guaranteed HD Glass First Focal Plane (FFP) Zero Stop Specification: Magnification: 6-24 x Objective Diameter: 50 mm Eye Relief: 3.5 inches Field of View: 20.88-5.22 ft @100 Yards Tube Size: 34 mm Turret Adjustment...

arkenopticsusa.com

 

[Jackpine Cowboy]

Thanks to all that responded.

Don't think I want to wait seven plus weeks, but appreciate the info on the Arken.

Can anyone give me any feedback or comparison, between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Argos and whether it is wise or foolish to save the money with the Gen 1.

Also, I have been reading some old posts and have seen the recommendation to contact Doug at Cameraland several times. Do you generally get a better price calling him than the prices listed on their website?

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

I havent owned a athlon argos GEN 1 since about 3 yrs ago, i didnt like the turrets knobs not lining up and the muschy turret.,, Also i failed to say in the last post is if it is a hot day out the argos subtentions seem to be off,i didnt believe that when i was told but i tested that theory one hot Arizona day and i be dammed if it wasnt true. Bought vortex and never looked back. Nit a spokeperson for vortex not a athlon basher just telling you my opinion and what happened with me,,,BUT IF YOU STEP UP to the Midas tac or Cronus those issues go away.. its like the talos,argos,helos, is there cheaper models idk

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

As far as the gen 2 i have no idea,maybe its better than the gen 1

 

[DownhillFromHere]

If you are most interested in the Athlon brand, do yourself a favor and call - on the phone - Doug (@gr8fuldoug) at CameralandNY. It's always a good idea to check in directly with Sniper's Hide supporting vendors.

Keep two things in mind when looking at lower-tier scopes:

• How much elevation do you get per full revolution of the turret? In my experience, the less-expensive ones only give you 5 mils or 10 MOA per turn. That will hurt you in matches where a single stage requires you to dial lots of elevation.... let's see, did I turn that thing all the way around once? Twice? Uhhh....? And a zero-stop is extremely useful (get used to turning the scope back to zero after every stage; a buddy of mine lost top gun in a match because he already had a full turn of "up" dialed when he put in his 2 miuls for 100-some yards - and shot three feet over the plate). Higher-tier scopes give you at least 10 mils / 25MOA of elevation per full turn of the turret.
• Rimfires used in competition actually put more stress on a scope than would be apparent - because that elevation turret is going to get cranked up and down A Lot.

Give Doug a call and be sure to mention you learned about him on SH.

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

Very good point ,i forgot about 5 mils per rev on the turrets. Talos was even worse plus you need a magnifying glass.

 

[Cowpokey]

I have a Ruger American Rimfire Target with a Diamondback Tactical on top, it's a nice scope...but I don't think I could get in "base class" with it, since I also put a Timney trigger in it. Maybe I'm looking at the rules "too" much.

I just got an Athlon Cronus BTR Gen2 4.5-29x56 to put on top of the Vudoo MPA BA 20" MTU barrel I ordered last week.

Anything worth doing, is worth over doing.

 

[Boxerglocker]

Thanks to all that responded.

Don't think I want to wait seven plus weeks, but appreciate the info on the Arken.

Can anyone give me any feedback or comparison, between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Argos and whether it is wise or foolish to save the money with the Gen 1.

Also, I have been reading some old posts and have seen the recommendation to contact Doug at Cameraland several times. Do you generally get a better price calling him than the prices listed on their website?

I own the Gen 1 and have played the Gen 2. As previously stated the Gen 1 turrets are a little mushy but get better if you remove the excess grease, still soft but usable. The Gen 2 turrets are fractionally better with the added zero stop. You may still get a little lash misalignment on the turret with either. That said the Gen 1 served me well on my OEM RPRimfire the tracking was good out to 250 yards which at the time was all I shot it out to. I still keep it as a backup, test scope for rifles when hand loading that normally do not have magnified optics such are AR platforms in 223, 308 and 9mm. I would not hesitate to confidently loan it to someone getting into 22LR precision, actually have. Personal choice would be to get a Gen 2 for base class or move up to a Midas TAC which I own as well.

 

[Defender32]

I’ll only add that the windage tree below has been nice for the holdover instead of dial on some of the NRL22 stages. It just works for me. There are some that absolutely hate it. Go to a couple of matches and look at what others are shooting and I’m sure they will let you shoot their rig. I know I would.

 

[kmckinnon]

Thanks to all that responded.

Don't think I want to wait seven plus weeks, but appreciate the info on the Arken.

Can anyone give me any feedback or comparison, between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Argos and whether it is wise or foolish to save the money with the Gen 1.

Also, I have been reading some old posts and have seen the recommendation to contact Doug at Cameraland several times. Do you generally get a better price calling him than the prices listed on their website?

Arken's web site says it's more like a 16 week wait (as in 4 months). So order one now and find something cheap to get you by until it comes in or move on with another brand.

 

[Boxerglocker]

Arken's web site says it's more like a 16 week wait (as in 4 months). So order one now and find something cheap to get you by until it comes in or move on with another brand.

If you can wait the 16 weeks the Arken SH4 is a great buy as well. Testing one on my RPRimfire myself. if you going to order one though and then order another scope to tide you over. It won't be worth it. Just get the Argos Gen 2.

 

[kmckinnon]

If you can wait the 16 weeks the Arken SH4 is a great buy as well. Testing one on my RPRimfire myself. if you going to order one though and then order another scope to tide you over. It won't be worth it. Kust get the Argos Gen 2. View attachment 7581322

I had an Arken EP-4 on a centerfire rifle. I sold it when I sold that rifle. It is a very good scope for the money. I'm sure the Arken SH4 Gen 2 is a another very good scope for the money. I was unwilling to wait months for one and while considering my options ran across a deal on a Vortex DB. I'll be using the DB until things settle down and other options become available at reasonable prices. The DB has not disappointed though.

 

[BLJ]

Wife has a Diamondback tacticle on her RAR Target. Tracking has been perfect to 175 yards and back on multiple occasions. It gets a little gray above 20x. Evevn on bright days. Still useable, but noticeable.
I have a Bushnell Nitro 5-20 SFP on my 457. Very clear for the money and has also tracked perfectly to 175 yards. Reticle is a little heavy for paper, but on steel in the 2 MOA range it works very well for me.

 

[Jackpine Cowboy]

Thanks for all the advice and help. Called Cameraland this morning and ordered a Athlon Argos. Very interesting place and a smokin deal. The advice to call and not order on line was good.

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

May not be the place to ask ,but anyone have a 34mm scope on a cz455? Cant find any rings high enough for the bolt throw? Any help? Now i know why i shoot a vudoo this is my wifes rifle. Thamks

 

[KnowNothing256]

May not be the place to ask ,but anyone have a 34mm scope on a cz455? Cant find any rings high enough for the bolt throw? Any help? Now i know why i shoot a vudoo this is my wifes rifle. Thamks

Are you not running a rail? I’ve only got a 30mm on mine, but it’s on the DIP rail, which is much shorter than the Area 419 that’s so popular. No scope clearance issues on the stock bolt.

I tried the swept bolt handle with aftermarket knob, though, and was a hard No on that. Even with the 419 rail that I bought specifically to run that bolt handle, the knob hits my trigger finger when I have it in my preferred orientation, bent 90 degrees at the middle knuckle. You can even see it in AO’s video, the guy is having to angle his trigger finger under the bolt knob.

So some JB Weld and online ordering later, I have another knob just screwed up against the stock knob, much better grip although it’s not the prettiest. Clears the scope tho :-D

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

It has a dip 25 moa rail with the anarchy ourdoor swept bolt handle, we ordered a vortex strike eagle 5-25x56 mrad it has a 34mm tube finding the right rings has been a nightmare, at the moment it is sitting in a vortex diamondback tactical mrad with extra high rings... Just cant find high or extra high rings in 34mm and know with confidence it will work.

 

[PPS LRPS.260]

This was my rifle for awhile then i bought a vudoo, she wanted it in a different stock so i pillar bedded and glas bedded this boyds at one stock for her she liked it, she is trying a bolt gun for awhile before dropping 3k on another vudoo, we both have kidd supergrade 1022s as well then i went vudoo so this is the reason and its turned into a hard find on the rings for the cz and 34mm rings. Thanks

 

[Defender32]

This was my rifle for awhile then i bought a vudoo, she wanted it in a different stock so i pillar bedded and glas bedded this boyds at one stock for her she liked it, she is trying a bolt gun for awhile before dropping 3k on another vudoo, we both have kidd supergrade 1022s as well then i went vudoo so this is the reason and its turned into a hard find on the rings for the cz and 34mm rings. Thanks

Try Arken Optics for rings. I have a set of their lows and like them. A buddy is running there High and they are High. Its not on a CZ though.

Halo Scope Rings

ARKEN OPTICS Halo Series billet precision scope rings are CNC machined from 7075 aircraft-grade aluminum that have ZERO tolerances for errors in any conditions. With ARKEN’s endless pursuit for precision, HALO rings are machined in pairs for ultimate accuracy and consistency. Torx style socket...

arkenopticsusa.com

 

[BLJ]

Maybe not exactly what your looking for, but I know of 2 guys that are using the Wheeler brand rings with Strike Eagles on 457's. Maybe worth a look.

 

[fdkay]

Maybe not exactly what your looking for, but I know of 2 guys that are using the Wheeler brand rings with Strike Eagles on 457's. Maybe worth a look.

I have a set of the wheeler's, couldn't get the level to work worth a fuck, but I really like the rings, especially for the price.

 

[littlepod]

I'd consider just getting rid of the throw lever / swapping to a diff throw lever like the vortex one which is much thinner and angling it away from the bolt.

 

[KnowNothing256]

+1 on the throw lever suggestion, but honestly I couldn’t make that bolt handle work. It’d clear the scope, barely, but the trigger finger placement issue was a non-starter for me. Best of luck.