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ptm121X

Gunny Sergeant
Rating: 3.4/5 this site
511 posts this site

How to shoot through a loophole
07/21/2016 Last edited 07/21/2016 by ptm121
(2 votes)






There are a lot of tricks and tips out there for making these shots, but most are really overly confusing. This is really quite simple if you have time to set it up beforehand, so let me show you how to do it with your ballistic calculator.
There are two types of loophole shots: those where you are a fixed distance from the loophole, and those where you can choose your distance. If the distance is fixed, you want to know where the bullet it going relative to line-of-sight (LOS) as it passes through the hole, so you can cheat it towards the center. If you can move your firing position, your goal is to perfectly match LOS with the bullet path at the hole - that is, your near zero is the distance to the loophole.
For those who forget, you normally have a Near Zero and a Far Zero, since the bullet has to travel upward from the muzzle, through the LOS (near Zero), and then come back down to intersect the LOS at the target (Far Zero). This is how you can have an AR-15 simultaneously zeroed at 25m and 300m. Most rifles will have the Near Zero equal the Far Zero somewhere around 100yd - the bullet rises to it's apex, just kisses the LOS, and then drops from there. This is one reason that 100 yard zeroes are used a lot - if you're off and it's actually 95 yd or 105yd, the zero won't change much.
Here's a diagram explaining this. The top is showing the trajectory when you are sighted in for a distant target. The bottom left is a close-up of the loophole, and where the bullet is in relation to LOS, based on the position of the barrier relative to the Near Zero.
IMG_7520.JPG

The bottom-right shows scope picture for each scenario. Note that while you can use the reticle and your ballistic calculator to know exactly where the bullet will go relative to the center crosshairs, it's not that important in most cases - if the bullet is clearly going to be below your LOS, just pin the target at the top of the hole. If it's going to be above, pin the target at the bottom of the hole. If it's very close to center, then just aim in the middle. The real trick is knowing your Near Zero, and if the barrier is closer (in which case the bullet will be lower than the crosshairs) or further (in which case it will be higher). To calculate that, follow the steps below.
The first steps are the same, no matter which case we are setting up for. Let's assume the target is 529 yards away.
Look at your dope chart and pick your dial. In this case I'm going to dial 2.9mRad (just interpolating between 500 and 550 in my head, like you would in a match):
IMG_7513.PNG

Then, go to your "Zero Range" (this is Ballistic AE, but you will have a similar field in your app), and input the target range. Note that while normally having your Sight Height over bore axis within 0.1" isn't needed for good calculations, it's very important for these shots! So, if you want to be able to shoot a tiny loophole, you'd better have measured that very carefully.
IMG_7516.PNG

Now go back and check that your 100-yard zero has a click value equal to what you're dialing for the shot, in this case 2.9 mRad. You could tweak it to be exactly 2.9 by changing the zero distance, but if it's within 1/2 click you're good to go. Here I'm happy with 2.86. You should also see ~0 clicks needed to hit your target, which we have.
IMG_7514.PNG

Now go back and change your chart to display 0-50yd, in 1-yd increments. This will let us see exactly what is happening at close range.
IMG_7515.PNG

And, spit out the data:
IMG_7517.PNG

Now we can pick the data for the type of shot we are making.
1) You are a fixed distance from the loophole. Let's say it's 10yd in this match. We can see that the bullet is about 0.46" low at 10yd, which is 1.27 mRad. So, when you aim, you want to aim at the target with your crosshairs (since you are dialed 2.9 mRad), but be sure that the spot on your reticle ~1.3 mRad below the crosshairs is clear of the hole. Ideally, center up the -1.3mRad spot on your reticle with the center of the hole, assuming you can still see the target under the crosshairs at that alignment.
2) You can select your distance. In this case, look for the Near Zero - it's about 13 yd. If you can put your gun between 13 and 14yd from the loophole, you can just line the crosshairs up on the target through the center of the hole, and fire through a VERY tiny hole without hitting the barrier.

 
strikeeagle1X

Sergeant
Rating: 3.4/5 this site
397 posts this site

Re: How to shoot through a loophole
07/24/2016 Last edited 07/24/2016 by strikeeagle1
(1 vote)






Loophole shooting is a quiz to see if the shooter understands the consequences of not reconciling the height-over-bore (HOB) of the rifle being used versus the vertical height of the loophole and the distance between the shooter and the loophole. These three variables have physical geometric constraints that will determine when the shooter can engage a target in a range less than the zero range of the rifle, as well as the variation of target ranges beyond the distance the rifle is zeroed at.


Anytime the vertical height of the loophole of interest is greater than the HOB of your rifle, you will be able to engage a target between you and the zero range of your rifle. As soon as the HOB of your rifle equals or exceeds the vertical height of the loophole of interest, then there is a minimum distance you must be from the loophole aperture in order to engage a target at less than the zero range of your rifle.

Diagrammatically, the ability to see a target within visual "domain" of a loophole relative to the visual domain of your scope is the problem at hand. The greater the HOB of the rifle the further away the loophole domain must be for the bullet to clear the aperture of the loophole; and vice versa, until the HOB=loophole vertical height when there exists no visual / physical restriction to engage a target at a range less than your zero range.

Screen%20Shot%202016-07-24%20at%207.40.05%20AM_zpsc7oaohjp.png


I used a Excel spreadsheet to make a matrix of HOB v. vertical height of loophole of interest to provide the Minimum distance the shooter has to be to clear the bottom edge of a loophole and still be able to engage a target out to the zero range of the rifle. The matrices are in yards / meters with imperial / metric measurements and based on two common caliber sizes, 5.56 (0.224") and 7.62 (.308"). For precision shooting a difference in caliber matters; the diameter of a .308 round is 15% of the vertical height of 2" loophole; a 5.56 round uses 11% of the vertical height available to clear a 2" loophole. Green zone indicates there is no minimum distance needed to the loophole. If you zero your rifle at something other than 100 meters / yards, a different matrix would be used.

Notice that when HOB=loophole vertical height there remains a minimum distance to clear the loophole; the distance varies depending on caliber diameter e.g. notice that the .224 requires 5.6 yards minimum v. 7.5 yards for the .308 for HOB=2"=loop height of interest.

Screen%20Shot%202016-07-24%20at%207.47.07%20AM_zpsb9tetwjn.png


Screen%20Shot%202016-07-24%20at%207.47.17%20AM_zps8wftfuga.png


Then you have to take your specific rifle to the range and experiment at different distances with different size loopholes to realize what range of distance target engagements are possible with your setup. It's easy to construct a target with measurements of various height loopholes to test your setup get the DOPE you need.

IMG_3498_zpst3t7kj3p.jpg



This example was obtained at an indoor range on a rainy day; no way to shoot off a bench or prone so not the best vertical string but you'll get the idea. You aim at the red dot for your various reticle hold-overs or dials, then observe where the bullet impacts relative to the center of the loophole. You can see that even at 22 meters my 100 meter zeroed rifle is 1.5" below even a 4" loophole; at 18 meters, a 200 meter shot would not clear the 4" loophole either.

Using a 5.56 I could engage targets thru a 2" loophole (positioned at 22 meters) at ~ 350 - 525 meters, with a 2.75" HOB; with the loophole at 18 meters the closest range of target engagement is reduced by almost 100 meters, 300-500; thru a 4" loophole @ 18 meters I could engage 230-550 meters; the bottom target shows the difference for 7.62 @ 22 meters. IF shooting thru loopholes is an important part of your needs, these results emphasize the advantage of employing the lowest HOB setup that in turn increases the opportunity to shoot thru smaller loopholes at shorter distances from the shooter.
IMG_3499_zpsolzjrs3d.jpg


This 2.75" HOB problem not clearing the 2" loophole is resolved at 31 meters, the minimum distance to the 2" loophole at which I can clear a shot thru it and still hit a target varying over a range of 69 meters; beyond 31 to the 100 meter zero range.
Screen%20Shot%202016-07-24%20at%2010.33.47%20AM_zps3h7sdcyn.png


You can make simple target loopholes to practice the craft.

I use a PVC pipe with velcro to attach to backside of the target, set in a tripod to control target height.
IMG_3422_zpsliz7d5qb.jpg

IMG_3423_zpsslag8mce.jpg


Windage clearance has similar concerns with small loopholes on windy days.

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DarksideSix
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X

First Sergeant
Rating: 3.6/5 this site
2209 posts this site

Re: How to shoot through a loophole
07/24/2016







Cant you just subtract your 10y DOPE from your Target distance DOPE and hold the difference? It's been a while since I've had to shoot through a loophole but it worked for me so either it worked or I just got lucky.

Example:
Target is 500y away and loophole is 10y away.
My dope for 10y is 4.1 Mils up. For 500y it is 2.7 Mils up. 4.1-2.7 = 1.3.

I dial 1.3 on the gun and the. Hold the difference of 1.4 putting the 1.4 mark on the target.
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strikeeagle1X

Sergeant
Rating: 3.4/5 this site
397 posts this site

Re: How to shoot through a loophole
07/24/2016 Last edited 07/24/2016 by strikeeagle1






^^ Yes . For that specific combination of HOB, loophole distance and vertical loophole height.

That method would not necessarily account for varying loophole vertical heights and distances to the loophole using the same rifle setup; as these two variables change there will be a point with your HOB setup at which either you could not clear the loophole or not engage the target at that specific distance. It's good to know your DOPE for that shot combination.

 
Re: How to shoot through a loophole
07/25/2016 Last edited 07/25/2016 by strikeeagle1




SheldonN wrote:Question for you... how would you handle a "blind" loophole shot? One where your DOPE and the target were such that you couldn't see the target through the loophole at the position required for the bullet to pass through the loophole? (Fixed distance to the loophole, of course).
I wasn't at the Snipers Hide Cup this year, but Frank's comment that it was a defilade shot makes me think you didn't have line of sight on the target at the correct firing solution.​
I don't have any idea to whom this question is directed to nor any idea whether I understand the question correctly, so I will take the question at its face and assume the shooter can see thru the loophole but no target is visible, yet there is a target of interest that can be accessed if you shoot thru the loophole with the correct DOPE to engage the target at a specific distance.

It must appear something like this to the shooter.

Screen%20Shot%202016-07-25%20at%207.36.18%20PM_zpsy83spyv2.png


Rather than the usual situation where the target is seen in the distance thru the sight "picture frame" of the loophole.

Screen%20Shot%202016-07-25%20at%207.30.17%20PM_zpshujnopmj.png


Apparently the intention of the blind drill is to strike a target obscured to the eye of the shooter, as imagined here.
Screen%20Shot%202016-07-25%20at%207.29.11%20PM_zpsanihbgg9.png


In my view, once you have deprived the long range shooter the opportunity to visualize the target of interest, the premise of such an endeavor changes the engagement from a precision shot to a circus shot.

I would liken it to mortar / artillery ranging in a reverse slope defense tactic, lobbing rounds over the top of a mountain ridge to engage unseen enemy; at least one might have the advantage of a forward spotter to adjust the ranging coordinates.
Or the old machine gun tactic of blindly providing suppressive fire via a protective loophole to hopefully strike an unseen enemy position.
Unknown_zpskfyxrieq.png


To be fair, the "blind" loophole dimensions and distance from the designated shooters position would have to designed not to penalize any single shooter due to height-over-bore issues to clear the loophole AND allow enough bore arc / reticle arc thru said loophole for a variety of shooters rifle setups to reach the target range.


As the shooter is deprived (my continuing assumption) seeing the target within the loophole, the shooter would have to assume or be told the point-of-aim at the target is exactly at the vertical center of the loophole and thus dial / hold the reticle at that point for desired range. Importantly, if any wind at any distance would have to considered to accurately impact the target, the shooter would not know how much windage or even the horizontal hold direction (right / left) of the target to obtain the correct firing solution.

Presumably there is a visual barrier prohibiting the shooter from visualizing the actual target, e.g. berm. Again, a variety of vertical height in trajectories may disadvantage one shooter over another, the flatter trajectory more likely to impact the berm then those trajectories with more arc in route to the target to clear the obstruction (berm).

The length of the critical impact zone of target for a 2 MOA (10" tall) target at 500 yards, e.g. ballistic app shows that an average .308 round will incur a 10" drop while traversing 475- 500 over that 25 yard range, whereas another caliber or setup might incur a shorter / longer critical impact zone; to be fair the "hidden" target would have to positioned such that the blind shooter could take maximum advantage of knowing the critical impact zone dimensions for his specific setup.

Final answer: I would handle it like I was at the circus and have fun with it.


 
All my data is based on a min of 5 foot an max of 20 foot spacing. Be very careful of the hole your shooting thru as there is nothing square or round in mother nature. Also make sure your data is with the can installed as barrel droop comes into play quickly on longer shots, as well as flash from a dark spot.
 
All my data is based on a min of 5 foot an max of 20 foot spacing. Be very careful of the hole your shooting thru as there is nothing square or round in mother nature. Also make sure your data is with the can installed as barrel droop comes into play quickly on longer shots, as well as flash from a dark spot.

Frank changed accounts for me, so I have some posts on the new hide are now showing up as a guest.
 
I want to drag/copy this thread over but don't see exactly how other than creating a new entry...
http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...ugh-a-loophole
If I'm getting it wrong...please help. (just doing a copy paste)

I printed this thread for future use. I would request that it be brought over and made a sticky. Some really good knowledge in here.


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