Yes, I saw significant ES/SD drop when switching from flame to AMP in both my 6.5cm and 6GT loads. Lapua and Alpha brass specifically. I assume its better neck tension control, as nothing else was changed.
- Thread starter MMH
- Start date
And they would be wrong in that case. Its ok though, no one is perfect.Look, I know you're an AMP fanboy, but dude just wants to know if annealing will help him/her with case neck cracking. If they wanted PhD level knowledge on metallurgy, they'd go take a college course. Don't make it more complicated than needed.
Below, straight up from AMP themselves (the makers of your god tier annealer), if you're looking for a low cost annealer, they recommend a gas flame based option.
https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/52/salt-bath-annealing--does-it-work-/
View attachment 8405248
Got any data to back that up? or you gonna stick with "trust me it works"
I may as well counter and say my limited testing showed no improvement.
SD calcs imply (require) the existence data ...
Got any data to back that up? or you gonna stick with "trust me it don't work"
Flame annealing lowered my SD/ES and Im seeing consistent groups but not smaller ones. I have no data to back that up.
Exactly. I dont record every shot I take. My loads before the amp were around 6-8 SD/ES. Post AMP I am around 3-4.
This wont show up unless you are shooting small targets far away, but its does add up to points gained over a season. To me, That matters.
This wont show up unless you are shooting small targets far away, but its does add up to points gained over a season. To me, That matters.
EXACTLY MY POINT
For starters 6-8 SD or ES? it can't be both.
How many rounds is this over?
What is your sample size?
Don't forget I asked for legitimate testing.
It’s a damn pretty cool lil thing. Now to get it just right 
This isn't a point.
Partner it's NOT difficult to understand at all . Do You run your nail gun dry or do You lube with inline air ?. Do You think running a nail gun would benefit from Lube ?. See it's NOT difficult at all .
Regardless of method used to heat the cartridge case's neck and shoulder ,BENEFITS BRASS LIFE Period .
The faster and more direct one does it at temperature near 1200-1300 Deg. F. or a dull orange glow ,the BETTER .
Just remember REGARDLESS OF METHOD USED , NO one is actually annealing their brass ,the BEST you can achieve is restoring ductility !.
AKA softening or removing brittleness from shoulder ,neck of said cartridge cases .
I would be willing to wager Major Monies on the Conclusive Tests that George Vander Voort performed on Cartridge Brass .
Please be My guest and send in a sample of each of YOUR cases of various manufactures to have them scanned etched and cut and YOU to will know exactly the property of said manufacturers Brass stock .
I don't know about anyone else but when I want a definitive answer to a specific question , I DON'T look to some ass clown on the Boob Tube to answer it . I prefer to consult EXPERTS !. So George just happens to be one of the Worlds Leading Authorities ,so George or Boob you Tube ?.
What is Metallography?
Metallography is the study of the microstructure of all types of metallic alloys. It can be more precisely defined as the scientific discipline of observing and determining the chemical and atomic structure and spatial distribution of the grains, constituents, inclusions or phases in metallic alloys. By extension, these same principles can be applied to the characterization of any material.
Different techniques are used to reveal the microstructural features of metals. Most investigations are carried out with incident light microscopy in brightfield mode, but other less common contrasting techniques, like darkfield or differential interference contrast (DIC), and the use of color (tint) etching are expanding the scope of light microscopy for metallographic applications.
Many important macroscopic properties of metallic materials are highly sensitive to the microstructure. Critical mechanical properties, like tensile strength or elongation, as well as other thermal or electrical properties, are directly related to the microstructure. The understanding of the relationship between the microstructure and macroscopic properties plays a key role in the development and manufacture of materials and is the ultimate aim of metallography.
Metallography, as we know it today, owes much to the contribution of the 19th century scientist Henry Clifton Sorby. His pioneering work with modern manufactured iron and steel in Sheffield (UK) highlighted this intimate bond between the microstructure and macroscopic properties. As he stated towards the end of his life: "In those early days, if a railway accident had occurred and I had suggested that the company should take up a rail and have it examined with the microscope, I would have been looked upon as a fit man to send to an asylum. But that is what is now being done ..."
Being a complete idiot, I anneal with flame after every firing, especially with gas gun brass. I see how much easier it is to size cases and have what I sense as more consistent seating of bullets. My very limited testing showed me that my annealing also results in lower SD's. But mine is not enough to really qualify as it is such a small sample size.
I do know that if some internet ASSCLOWN tells me I'm full of shit for thinking my annealing is helping in any way, well, that particular internet ASSCLOWN can run it in his ass... Just sayin'
I do know that if some internet ASSCLOWN tells me I'm full of shit for thinking my annealing is helping in any way, well, that particular internet ASSCLOWN can run it in his ass... Just sayin'
LOL. Do you just go around believing everything, everyone says on forums?
SD. ES tightened up as well but i dont remember numbers off the top of my head. I think my ES is around 12-15 with the 3.5SD loads. Thats a .04gr spread and the difference between about a kernal or 2 of H4350.
Over hundreds of shots of each. I dont even start to trust SD/ES until I have already 30 shots to measure. I ran the Andiscan so the whole barrel break in had a chrono attached, as well as whenever I zero and verify dope before a match.
Believe it , don't believe it, I dont really give a shit. My goal was never to placate people on here and spoon feed them all my data. Its just observation over many thousands of rounds.
repeat.SD calcs imply (require) the existence data ...
What is the point of even mentioning that it lowered your ES/SD if you don't want to share the numbers to back it up?
Sharing those numbers would be much more effective at conveying your point than calling people stupid and spouting off about brass alloy's which I'm sure you are very educated on.
It sounds like you may actually have some numbers of value, if you've got several 30 round strings of each where the SD was 3.5 vs 8 in AMP vs flame annealed that would be compelling to say the AMP does in fact work better. (not sure I believe it but that doesn't matter)
SD calcs imply (require) the existence data ...
You are absolutely essential to this conversation.
I DGAF if you want to pick a fight bwith DBDM,You are absolutely essential to this conversation.
but don't shit up the thread
with illogical 'witticisms'...
carry on...
Something of interest to those of you who may need to know . Where Your Brass comes from IF YOU'RE buying domestic Brass ,regardless of manufacturer .
http://www.ahgp.org/inter-mt/united-states-smelting-refining-mining-company.html
Now as for say Alpha Brass , CS26000 Cold Rolled plate or HO2 aka 1/2 hard 70/30 cartridge brass .
I know their supplier and who smelts it . Yet that isn't gonna come out of ME ,so Don't ask !. I believe they're on this site and will tell you IF they want anyone to know .
Just as a frame of reference : When I started working before batching for Hercules , I did Drilling & blasting work in nearly every copper strip pit gold marble granite mine in AZ. UT. NV. and CA. as well as . I also batched dynamite which supplied Union Carbide at Pine Creek Mine outside Bishop ,CA. . Being the only other employee at the plant with a class 1 license ,occasionally required my delivering 40K lb. of 2x16 80% Niro industrial gel up too that mine . With an old Pete aka Peterbuilt . So hot one summer I broke down outside Adelanto ,CA. the tires left 4" impressions in the asphalt . CHP came by reported Me down . NO cell phones back in those days or phones out there for that matter and couldn't leave the truck .
It was 126 Deg. F. when I finally pulled out of that hell hole . Try slipping chains on drivers at 6 Deg. F. at 5800 Ft. snowing as never before seen and the mine sets at 11,000 Ft. ! . Failure to chain up at lookout Pt. ,you'll never do it again !!!. Boy the things a guy will do for money
https://www.mtnmouse.com/california/sng11_pine_creek_mine_story_blog.html
http://www.ahgp.org/inter-mt/united-states-smelting-refining-mining-company.html
Now as for say Alpha Brass , CS26000 Cold Rolled plate or HO2 aka 1/2 hard 70/30 cartridge brass .
I know their supplier and who smelts it . Yet that isn't gonna come out of ME ,so Don't ask !. I believe they're on this site and will tell you IF they want anyone to know .
Just as a frame of reference : When I started working before batching for Hercules , I did Drilling & blasting work in nearly every copper strip pit gold marble granite mine in AZ. UT. NV. and CA. as well as . I also batched dynamite which supplied Union Carbide at Pine Creek Mine outside Bishop ,CA. . Being the only other employee at the plant with a class 1 license ,occasionally required my delivering 40K lb. of 2x16 80% Niro industrial gel up too that mine . With an old Pete aka Peterbuilt . So hot one summer I broke down outside Adelanto ,CA. the tires left 4" impressions in the asphalt . CHP came by reported Me down . NO cell phones back in those days or phones out there for that matter and couldn't leave the truck .
It was 126 Deg. F. when I finally pulled out of that hell hole . Try slipping chains on drivers at 6 Deg. F. at 5800 Ft. snowing as never before seen and the mine sets at 11,000 Ft. ! . Failure to chain up at lookout Pt. ,you'll never do it again !!!. Boy the things a guy will do for money
https://www.mtnmouse.com/california/sng11_pine_creek_mine_story_blog.html
