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Lower/Upper/Handguard set for Long Range Gas Gun

hacabrera071

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Apr 20, 2019
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McAllen, TX
Guys, I'm beginning to build a Gas Gun in 223 Wylde with the intention to use it for long range shooting (up to 800 yards) and for PRS as my backup gun.

So far I've chosen the barrel (Proof CFW 20" 1:8 Tw), BCG (JP Enterprise LMOS) and adjustable gas block (seekins). Now, the question is, with the type of use I intend to have for it, what upper/lower/handguard combo would you say is best? Not to sound pretentious, but, I've learned to "buy one cry once" and knowing myself, if I go for the cheapest option (just based on price), I will end up switching to something of better specs or performance, thus, in an ideal world, what would you say is the best upper/lower/handguard combo for the use case I have?

Afaik the name of the game with upper/lower combos is tolerances... the tighter the tolerances the better (for the most part, not to take it to extremes), but, having so many names and brands out there, its hard to tell them apart (at least for me, non-experience gas gun shooter).

Thanks!

-Eddie
 
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Did you mean 20" barrel?

Do you have any other requirements besides long range shooting (up to 800 yards)? Will you primarily be shooting bench or prone?

Do you have any other gas guns?

Are you going to build the gun or is a gunsmith?
 
Did you mean 20" barrel?

Do you have any other requirements besides long range shooting (up to 800 yards)? Will you primarily be shooting bench or prone?

Do you have any other gas guns?

Are you going to build the gun or is a gunsmith?
I’m sorry bud, I’m sleep deprived at the moment… I have a 10 day old daughter and the sleepless nights are hitting me bad!

Yes, I meant a 20” barrel. As far as shooting I want to be able to do PRS, thus I was thinking on an m-lok hand guard and attaching an arca rail to it, like the one MDT sales, that way I can use the bipods I own already.

I do have a gas gun already, Aero M4 5.56, 12” barrel , I use it for CQB style shooting up to 100yds. As far as building the AR, I’ll physically build it myself… well, I’ll put it together myself and will then take to my gunsmith just for a final checkup before hitting the range with it :)

Cheers!
 
Guys, I'm beginning to build a Gas Gun in 223 Wylde with the intention to use it for long range shooting (up to 800 yards) and for PRS as my backup gun.

So far I've chosen the barrel (Proof CFW 22" 1:8 Tw), BCG (JP Enterprise LMOS) and adjustable gas block (seekins). Now, the question is, with the type of use I intend to have for it, what upper/lower/handguard combo would you say is best? Not to sound pretentious, but, I've learned to "buy one cry once" and knowing myself, if I go for the cheapest option (just based on price), I will end up switching to something of better specs or performance, thus, in an ideal world, what would you say is the best upper/lower/handguard combo for the use case I have?

Afaik the name of the game with upper/lower combos is tolerances... the tighter the tolerances the better (for the most part, not to take it to extremes), but, having so many names and brands out there, its hard to tell them apart (at least for me, non-experience gas gun shooter).

Thanks!

-Eddie

....there have been posts touting the Aero M4E1 Enhanced upper receivers due the robust barrel attachment at front of receiver, kind of like a monolithic upper, and claims of greater rigidity over the threaded receiver. There is a company that markets their ARCA rail that is used on the M4E1 Enhanced handguard, which also has a larger ID so AGB's have more room to avoid contacting the inside of the rail.

...you may want to check their site out... https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15/combo-sets
 
I’m sorry bud, I’m sleep deprived at the moment… I have a 10 day old daughter and the sleepless nights are hitting me bad!

Yes, I meant a 20” barrel. As far as shooting I want to be able to do PRS, thus I was thinking on an m-lok hand guard and attaching an arca rail to it, like the one MDT sales, that way I can use the bipods I own already.

I do have a gas gun already, Aero M4 5.56, 12” barrel , I use it for CQB style shooting up to 100yds. As far as building the AR, I’ll physically build it myself… well, I’ll put it together myself and will then take to my gunsmith just for a final checkup before hitting the range with it :)

Cheers!
I have a few more questions. Do you have a weight requirement? Do you have a rail length requirement?

The secret to accuracy in an AR (other than barrel and trigger selection which are the top priorities) is rigidity of the barrel to upper lockup and generally a more rigid rail. Thermal fit is ideal but can oftentimes be an issue with tolerance stacking. BCM uppers generally always require thermal fitting of the barrel extension to the upper (heating up the upper to slightly open up where the upper and barrel meet facilitating a very tight fit), although this can be done with Loctite and or shims to take up any additional volume in the meetup. When done properly I have seen the same result in regards to accuracy. At the end of the day it comes down to the barrel, and the difference between all the things I am about to say and just throwing a gun together is probably .35 MOA. There is bell curve to this and it all depends on how anal you want to get and how much money you want to spend.

The second piece to that is the how the upper reciver and the rail interface. You have three types of options:
1) a tradition barrel nut / upper receiver interface. Probably the least ideal for your use case but there have been a million amazing precion ARs built off this setup so there is an argument to not overthink it. It has far more to do with the indian than the arrow.
2) a monolithic upper receiver like LMT's or VLTOR's. The general negative to this type of system is weight and probably more important in your case, the length of the handguard as they are typically shorter than 13". But this is probably the best option if you are looking for pure precision.
3) the third is more of a hybrid approach like you see from Larue, DD, Aero, KAC ect. where the flex of the rail is be transferred to the upper reciver vs the barrel nut. They all have different ways of doing it and the systems can oftentimes be proprietary and not meant for builders, as in you would need to buy a full upper and swap parts.

Upper to lower tightness is not as important as the upper itself but looking for builders sets is helpful.

If I was in your shoes and I wanted to build it myself I would probably look at Aero on the affordable end with their M4E1 upper receivers & handguards (they sell M4E1 builders sets from time to time that for the money are the easy button). If I was looking to spend more money I would be looking at radian with their builders set, V Severn builders set if you are looking to save weight, a KAC URX4 rail along with a BCM Upper, or buying a Larue ultimate upper when they come back in stock and selling the barrel and BCG or doing the same with a DD V7 upper.

But most likely I would call up Steve at Citizen Arms and tell him I have a 20" proof barrel and let him work his magic. He will point you in the right direction as far as parts go and it will be a .5 MOA shooter. He has made made amazing guns with decent mil spec parts and ALG handguards that shoot lights out. His customer service is some of the best in the industry. I can't say enough good things about him.

I have been involved in more than a few of these types of builds so if you have specific questions - shoot.
 
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I really like the JP hand guards. They have them in an XL length, so you can get your bipod way out front. They also make an arca rail that perfectly matches the bottom contour, so you will have a plethora of mounting positions. The only thing a little odd is the JP mounting system. It works a little differently (not the nut, how the hand guard mates to the nut). If you go that route just give it a dry run first, but make sure that you don’t cross thread the screws. They are very fine and it would be easy to do. I have two of them on my precision ARs and the mounted fine, but cross threading was a definite concern.
 
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I have a few more questions. Do you have a weight requirement? Do you have a rail length requirement?

The secret to accuracy in an AR (other than barrel and trigger selection which are the top priorities) is rigidity of the barrel to upper lockup and generally a more rigid rail. Thermal fit is ideal but can oftentimes be an issue with tolerance stacking. BCM uppers generally always require thermal fitting of the barrel extension to the upper (heating up the upper to slightly open up where the upper and barrel meet facilitating a very tight fit), although this can be done with Loctite and or shims to take up any additional volume in the meetup. When done properly I have seen the same result in regards to accuracy. At the end of the day it comes down to the barrel, and the difference between all the things I am about to say and just throwing a gun together is probably .35 MOA. There is bell curve to this and it all depends on how anal you want to get and how much money you want to spend.

The second piece to that is the how the upper reciver and the rail interface. You have three types of options:
1) a tradition barrel nut / upper receiver interface. Probably the least ideal for your use case but there have been a million amazing precion ARs built off this setup so there is an argument to not overthink it. It has far more to do with the indian than the arrow.
2) a monolithic upper receiver like LMT's or VLTOR's. The general negative to this type of system is weight and probably more important in your case, the length of the handguard as they are typically shorter than 13". But this is probably the best option if you are looking for pure precision.
3) the third is more of a hybrid approach like you see from Larue, DD, Aero, KAC ect. where the flex of the rail is be transferred to the upper reciver vs the rail nut. They all have different ways of doing it and the systems can oftentimes be proprietary and not meant for builders, as in you would need to buy a full upper and swap parts.

Upper to lower tightness is not as important as the upper itself but looking for builders sets is helpful.

If I was in your shoes and I wanted to build it myself I would probably look at Aero on the affordable end with their M4E1 upper receivers & handguards (they sell M4E1 builders sets from time to time that for the money are the easy button). If I was looking to spend more money I would be looking at radian with their builders set, V Severn builders set if you are looking to save weight, a KAC URX4 rail along with a BCM Upper, or buying a Larue ultimate upper when they come back in stock and selling the barrel and BCG or doing the same with a DD V7 upper.

But most likely I would call up Steve at Citizen Arms and tell him I have a 20" proof barrel and let him work his magic. He will point you in the right direction as far as parts go and it will be a .5 MOA shooter. He has made made amazing guns with decent mil spec parts and ALG handguards that shoot lights out. His customer service is some of the best in the industry. I can't say enough good things about him.

I have been involved in more than a few of these types of builds so if you have specific questions - shoot.
Here you go! That’s stuff I hadn’t thought about at all! I had read about monolithics and understood what the advantages were but didn’t think of it as a crucial part of the system, but, it all makes sense, if there’s any flexing/bending in the handguard to upper joint the POI may shift and that something we want to avoid at all cost.

Weight is definitely not a concern to me, actually, I want the rifle to be heavy… all my bolt guns are north of 20 pounds and I’m accustomed to shooting and balancing the rifles that way.

Now, as far as handguard length requirement I think the bare minimum would be 15”, but 16 I think would be my sweet spot.

I’ll do some research on those brands you recommended and will then call Citizen Arms once I have a more solid idea of what I’m looking for, that way I can take informed decisions.

I appreciate the knowledge drop here, thanks a lot @the monk !

-Eddie
 
I really like the JP hand guards. They have them in an XL length, so you can get your bipod way out front. They also make an arca rail that perfectly matches the bottom contour, so you will have a plethora of mounting positions. The only thing a little odd is the JP mounting system. It works a little differently (not the nut, how the hand guard mates to the nut). If you go that route just give it a dry run first, but make sure that you don’t cross thread the screws. They are very fine and it would be easy to do. I have two of them on my precision ARs and the mounted fine, but cross threading was a definite concern.
iirc those JP handguards are cylindrical, right? How does the rigidity on them feel to ya?

I’ve read their upper/lower fit is very tight, I think that’s a plus, aside from the fact that my BCG is a JP as well and should fit right in! What are your thoughts on their buffer systems? What do you run in your rifles?

Thanks for the help bud!
 
SGT at arms makes a 15 and 17.5 same as Aero but with arca built in.
Been waiting for the Geissele MK18 to come back in stock, might have to give up and jump on one of these.
 
The JP is very solid. It is pretty well thought out. It actuall uses a big nut for the barrel, so you arent trying to line up little holes and stuff. I believe it is 17.5" but you have to get the arca separately. If Sgt at Arms is making an integral arca that may be a way to go if the rest of the piece is good stuff. Im just spoiled by JP. All of their stuff has always worked good for me.
 
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