Theoretically, let's say I want to build a lightweight hunter/do all-ish rifle, but I want to use AW mags. What's a good option with low recoil that will feed reliably ?
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im in Texas. probably not deer with this particular gun but everything below that. although on our sized deer, 223 with 77 grain varmint bullets would do no problem. i use hunting "loosely". if i am driving around on the Ranger and i see hogs, i want to shoot hogs. or a coyote, or raccoons. or whatever.
Now i have a ton of 308s. my other caliber i shoot in my night time GAP10 is 260. i want to be suppressed for sure.
223 intrigues me because i can run a 16-18 inch barrel with my AEM5 and cutdown on overall length but will have to use AICS style mags. with the 260, ill need to add length for the can and what would my realistic shortest barrel be to get decent performance out to 400 yards? 18 inches?
AW mags and .308 boltface are your limiting factors. Obviously it'll be the smallest case capacity and smallest pill that will fit that, and that's probably 22 BR, but there may be some other, smaller wildcat.
A heavy rifle will also mitigate recoil.
A heavy rifle will also mitigate recoil.
It would remain to be seen, but perhaps the .22 Creedmoor would work? Your case capacity is still great enough that a shorter barrel will leave you greater unburnt powder of course, but it might be an option if you're stuck on using AW magazines in a .308 cartridge seat diameter.
6 Dasher, 115 VLDs or 95 LRX, AW mags with HRD kit. Will kill deers and even bears easy inside of 200 yards.
Otherwise 6GT will do the same and you won't need the HRD kit.
If using a CDG actions and coned breech, even 6BR will feed fine.
Otherwise 6GT will do the same and you won't need the HRD kit.
If using a CDG actions and coned breech, even 6BR will feed fine.
Although a bit outdated and missing some newer cartridges, the Chuck Hawks recoil table might help. Rifle weight is important, so adjust from listed weight to actual. It's not categorized by action length, so either go by knowledge or look up the cartridge.
Chuck Hawks Recoil Table - Rifle
Chuck Hawks Recoil Table - Rifle
i love a heavy rifle. have many of them. hell, almost all of them are heavy. looking for something different going lightweight, low recoil just for comfort of shooting.
its not too much i guess, but i own 5 or 6 of them. looking for something a little different.
interestingly enough, i think my AEM5 may have a 2.75" bore diameter. i may call Ron Allen and ask what he thinks about shooting a 260 through that can.
22 bench rest and you could even kill deer with it
you had my attention, now you have my curiosity.
A 6mm of your choice would likely be the best choice. A 70-80 grain bullet and mild load of powder will have very little recoil.
I misspoke... or typed! The 22 Creedmoor is a wildcat round based off the 6mm CM, but I was thinking of the new .22 ARC from Hornady when I wrote my comment. Alas, the .22 ARC uses a different cartridge seat diameter/case head than the Creedmoor or other .308 based cartridges.
My vote is either the 22-250 twisted for the heavier bullets and shoot the 75-77, or the parent cartridge the 250-3000 and shoot the 87 grain.
It's a dandy cartridge, loaded with modern powders to modern pressures, you can get very respectable velocities and still burn the powder in a shorter barrel.
Case taper may be a problem.
It's a dandy cartridge, loaded with modern powders to modern pressures, you can get very respectable velocities and still burn the powder in a shorter barrel.
Case taper may be a problem.
I'm an old school 250-3000 user. First deer rifle was a Ruger in that and I own about 3 more. But I'm certain it won't fit and feed from an Aics pattern mag
Found this old thread. The case taper does present a problem if you're loading 10 rounds.
Gunsmithing - 22-250 Mag Feeding?
I need some input from people with experience! I am considering a 22-250 on a custom action in a Manners TF3 stock. I wanted to run this as a repeater with AW mags. Has anyone built something similar to this? Will the caliber feed reliably from the mags or is the shoulder just to steep? I...
www.snipershide.com Found this old thread. The case taper does present a problem if you're loading 10 rounds.
Gunsmithing - 22-250 Mag Feeding?
I need some input from people with experience! I am considering a 22-250 on a custom action in a Manners TF3 stock. I wanted to run this as a repeater with AW mags. Has anyone built something similar to this? Will the caliber feed reliably from the mags or is the shoulder just to steep? I...
22 creed seems more and more appealing
Yeah I think so too. 18" barrel, reflex style suppressor to cut down overall weight, maybe a 400BB barrel for better life, 1:8 tw and shoot for about 3300 fps... Might be a sweet little rig
Hrd mag kits and a 22br stoked by a heavy load of varget should run an 80 eldm around 3050fps and wreak havoc on deer from a 24" barrel. My 28" 22br has no issues getting 90s near 3100fps, so 80s should run near same speed with a bit shorter barrel. The 77tmk is an absolute murder bullet too, wicked wound channels, bc is shit tho. I have had a couple 22 creeds, they're fun! 85gr hybrids at 3160 from an 18" barrel. Recoil is def higher than as you're burning 10gr more powder than the BR. 6br with 95tmk will kill like crazy. Basically anything 6mm creed and down is a low recoil cartridge especially if running a supressor or brake.
You guys are funny.
8.6 subsonic.
8.6 subsonic.
8.6 is for flat brimmed hats, full sleeve tattoos, and hamster beards. .338 Subsonics if you're flannel wearing, curved brimmed hat.
Fair warning. 6gt can be finicky in AW mags. Runs fine in AICS. But there's plenty of people/rifles that has issues in AW. Even the ones that do run well, you'll likely need to tap the back of the mag and shift all the rounds forward.
Standard size cartridges are the only close to full proof you will get. BR cartridges need a mag kit (or pushed forward) and 6gt will need to be pushed forward most of the time.
I'd personally do something like 22cm, 6cm, or 6x47
Standard size cartridges are the only close to full proof you will get. BR cartridges need a mag kit (or pushed forward) and 6gt will need to be pushed forward most of the time.
I'd personally do something like 22cm, 6cm, or 6x47
Takeing a hrd mag kit and shortening the rear spacer block by 0.150 is the ticket to getting gt to run flawless in aw mags. Worked for mine anyways.
I’m running my 22BR with a 26” barrel with 88eldms at 2990.
My 28" likes em there too, but I never found pressure till north of 3100fps with rl15.5 and Varget. Amazingly fun lil round. 88s, 90 smk and 90 atips all shot very well right at 2980-3000fps. The pointed 90smk from the 7tw shot the best, quite a few 1-1.5" 5 shot groups at 400y on paper. Impressive lil cartridge!
It’s a fun little round. Only shot one competition with it this year. Looking forward to putting more rounds through it this coming year.
Had been considering this. Thanks for confirming it works.
@J. W. said it well.
I would further ask, does it absolutely have to be AW mags?
I ask because Social Regressive (Kyle) outfitted a 6 mm ARC from CMMG to be general use or "truck" gun that could get varmints and predators but be good for deer.
If it must be .308, look into getting an AR-10.
Even though the company is now out of business, you could go on the GB site and still find new one of the Windham Weaponry AR-10s. I have the Windham Weaponry R216SFST-308. Very nice. Chrome molly barrel 4150M.
I would further ask, does it absolutely have to be AW mags?
I ask because Social Regressive (Kyle) outfitted a 6 mm ARC from CMMG to be general use or "truck" gun that could get varmints and predators but be good for deer.
If it must be .308, look into getting an AR-10.
Even though the company is now out of business, you could go on the GB site and still find new one of the Windham Weaponry AR-10s. I have the Windham Weaponry R216SFST-308. Very nice. Chrome molly barrel 4150M.
I have been looking at a build just like you are. 22ARC looks very interesting. 22 Creed looks good also. The issue with those would be ammo availability. 243 Win is a great round and ammo is everywhere...
I'm looking to build something very specific and on a lone peak action. I have AR10s in 308 and 260. Looking to shift gears to something more compact, light , and handy.
AW mags offer 10 rounds in a small package. I use them in my Arctic Warfare so I have a bunch
Two lug action with AW mags? You're definitely going to want a case with the widest case body. Something with a 308 parent case body. An adjustable mag catch would be helpful too. The bolt won't have a lug to strip the case out of the mag and will have to rely on the bolt face which will be shallower. So a case that protrudes out of the feed lips the most will ensure the highest probability of feeding.
thats correct, which is why 22 creed seems like the ticket, based on the 308 parent case and body.
The 6.5 CM is a little shorter at the shoulders than a 260. When I have malfunctions with AW mags it's because the spring doesn't have the strength to push the case all the way up to the top of the feed lips and the front of the round nose dives a little so the bolt skips over the round. A longer case body seems to help avoid that. 308W definitely runs better than 6GT or 6CM in my AW mags. (In an AI)
But otherwise the 22CM is a pretty cool cartridge. Alpha brass and 4831SC are a killer combo.
refocus on this: what twist for 22 creedmore? id like to shoot between 65-75 grainers. will anything between 7.5, 7.7 and 8 twist be fine? anything that a good "all around" twist?
9tw would likely stabilize that. I have ran 88s through 8tw at 2000-6000da. 8 for sure will get you buy at low altitude in cold weather.
These are the velocities that hit 300K RPMs in the following twist rates. Regardless of bullet weight or stability.
7" - 2917fps
7.5" - 3110fps
7.7" - 3209fps
8" - 3334fps
9" - 3750fps
60(12/twist rate)MV=rpms
Use this to answer the other end of the question. Minimum twist to stabilize.
bergerbullets.com
7" - 2917fps
7.5" - 3110fps
7.7" - 3209fps
8" - 3334fps
9" - 3750fps
60(12/twist rate)MV=rpms
Use this to answer the other end of the question. Minimum twist to stabilize.
Twist Rate Stability Calculator
Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.
bergerbullets.com Last edited:
Honestly, I'd go 7 twist because you'll eventually want to shoot the 85-90 grain bullets
Won't be a problem if shooting 65-75 pills
and down to 60 grain v-max? ill need to do the calcs.
How do you figure? Limit a 60gr bullet to 2900fps? Or you don't believe in blowing up bullets?
Ok, got two barrels coming from Kreiger, 1:7.7 and 1:8. Going to match them to a Fusion TI with WTO switch blocked action and an AG composites stock.
Waiting on barrels to get chambered then off to Base Camp to get muzzle profiled for the AEM5 I'm going to run.
Moving slow but it's all coming to. Would like the total weight under 10 lbs. Going to be close
Waiting on barrels to get chambered then off to Base Camp to get muzzle profiled for the AEM5 I'm going to run.
Moving slow but it's all coming to. Would like the total weight under 10 lbs. Going to be close
20x47L with a light load of H4350 pushing 55gr Bergers at 3830 fps out of a 26" 9 twist. Sure does send a Rockchuck helicoptering off the top of a boulder at 412Y.
Not too bad at 1000Y either.
However not great on a barrels throat though.
I used AICS but should work fine in AW too.
Not too bad at 1000Y either.
However not great on a barrels throat though.
I used AICS but should work fine in AW too.
back up top: about to get the final barrel cuts made, but im waivering on the barrel length. thinking 18-18.5" for weight savings but want suggestions about shorter or longer, and why. will be used as a general purpose varmint gun, could be shots to 400-500 yards but will most likely be inside 200. will ride around in the Can Am with me and do whatever i want it to.
final thoughts before the last finished length cut?
final thoughts before the last finished length cut?
My 22cm is 18" 7tw, shoots 85.5 Bergers at 3200fps accurate enough I'll hit whatever I'm aiming at out to 600y. It wears a supressor and thermal more often than not.
