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Rifle Scopes LPVO Evaluation Vortex Gen III 1-10 - March Shorty 1-10 - ATI SAI 6 1-6

Glassaholic

Optical theorist and conjecturer
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Minuteman
  • Nov 30, 2012
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    Panhandle, FL
    A crashed hard drive and another review has caused me to be delayed in providing more information on the 3 LPVO's that I had in hand last April. In December I ordered the Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10x24 in MOA BDC and after what seemed like forever it finally arrived in April. I bought my DT MDRx 7.62 in March after selling my Sig 716 G2 to get something more compact and wanted a nice optic to complement the MDRx. Originally it was just going to be the Gen III and the March Shorty, but ATI announced their new SAI 6 and I really liked the reticle design. For many years I have been a proponent of mrad based reticles and have turned my nose at BDC styles but for an LPVO and the desire for a system to be "quick" I decided to return to this feature to see if I could make it work... for me and my specific platform. For those who may not be aware, ATI is the parent company of Tangent Theta in Canada, but the SAI series are not part of TT's lineup and instead ATI decided to use a Japanese OEM to produce their new LPVO. The fact that the best LPVO scopes are of Japanese manufacturer makes sense for ATI's first foray into this market.

    Unlike most of my reviews of long range scopes, I am not doing my typical full optical review, instead this is more of an evaluation of what I like or do not like about each scope and then there will be a few pages of through the scope reticle images (please pay attention to the notes).

    20210410_LPVO_March_SAI6_VortexGenIII_ 001.jpg


    If "short" is your forte, it's pretty clear which scope wins that challenge, but what is surprising is how compact Vortex kept their 1-10x24 as it is essentially the same size as the 1-6 scope. SAI uses a 30mm tube while the Vortex has the larger 34mm tube and while March's tube is 30mm there is no space to mount in front of the turret housing and March is using a 33mm diameter bell which will require a special mount. Audere (a specialized manufacturer in Italy) happens to make a mount and March has assured me they objective bell is strong enough for this mount. If you'd rather not use this style mount, some have used Aimpoint Pro mounts like the one from Scalarworks, but I put up two of my ARC M10 rings and they will both fit behind the turret housing as the picture below shows.

    20210410_March_Shorty_1-10x24_AudereMount_ 001.jpg


    Some other features to point out is color, March is traditional black and Vortex is their typical anodization they've used with other Razor series scopes, a color that matches... well, nothing. Still not sure why Vortex chose this color to begin with, I assume to be different and so other shooters can quickly identify who has a Razor. For many it is not an issue but for others it is. ATI went with an anodization that is much closer to FDE and may be more aesthetically pleasing to some vs. the Vortex.

    Here's how the scopes setup on my MDRx
    Ignore the mount, it was my only 34mm mount at the time but clearly this would need a cantilever mount if I had kept the Vortex
    20210410_Vortex_GenIII_1-10x24_DT_MDRx_ 001.jpg


    20210410_ATI_SAI6_1-6x24_DT_MDRx_ 001.jpg


    20210410_March_Shorty_1-10x24_DT_MDRx_ 001.jpg


    TURRETS​

    Let's talk about the turrets. For many, a BDC reticle means you are not going to be fiddling with turrets and dialing elevation or wind, this is, after all, what the reticle is designed for. Both the Vortex and the SAI have fixed parallax set at 150 yards for the Vortex and 110 meters for the SAI, while the March is one of the few LPVO designs out that offer's an adjustable parallax. When it comes to illumination both the Vortex and SAI use a more traditional dial with on/off settings between each brightness level while March uses a push button design to scroll through the different settings.

    20210410_LPVO_March_SAI6_VortexGenIII_ 002.jpg

    If you ever do plan to use your LPVO as more of a long range scope, the fact that the March is the only one that offers exposed turrets (with very nice clicks I might add) and the adjustable parallax will probably sway you in that direction. Vortex has capped turrets that are extremely low profile but with the caps removed are very easy to turn like a traditional turret. Now we come to the SAI's turrets and once you unscrew the caps there is a big "what were you thinking?" moment, not only are the turrets tiny, the only way to adjust them are to use the little bump at the top which requires your thumb and index finger. As a set it and forget it scope, you probably won't care, but if you ever intend to "dial" this scope you may be in for a challenge. My recommendation with the SAI 6 is to zero it and don't ever remove those caps again. Both March and SAI offer flip caps, the SAI has the excellent Tenebraex caps and March has their own branded caps which are nice but not Tenebraex nice. Vortex only offers cheap caps that quickly get lost.

    20210410_LPVO_March_SAI6_VortexGenIII_ 003.jpg


    Below are specs on the scopes
    LPVO_evaluation_specs.jpg


    RETICLE​

    So why the SAI 6 when it's only a 1-6, to be honest it was the reticle, I really liked their outside the box thinking with the design and especially for quick short range work without illumination, while most manufacturers opt for a horseshoe style SAI went with four bullets that point toward center. I need a lot more time with the scope but I think it's going to be a benefit for sure and I really like the fact that their BDC goes out to 800 meters, which brings us to the Vortex and the EBR-9 MOA BDC reticle which was clearly designed for 5.56 work as it only goes out to 600 yards, if you intend to go further than 600 I highly recommend the EBR-9 mrad reticle which is a very well thought out reticle, but for 600 and in the Vortex design has the traditional LPVO BDC reticle features but with a different style illuminated quadrant (more on that later). At first glance it appears March is using a standard mil hash reticle but in reality they are using a dual focal plane design, the center (illuminated) dot and the main crosshair stadia are in the second focal plan while all the mrad hash marks are in the FFP, that being said the March is not a Christmas tree design and I wish it was but it doesn't sound like that will be an option with dual focal plane, I think we will end up seeing a tree but it will be FFP only.

    ILLUMINATION​

    Outside of the reticle, illumination may command the most attention feature wise and in this category Vortex hit a home run, their illumination module and reticle etching is the best I've seen, if you prefer how bright RDS sights are then you'll be pleasantly surprised with the Gen III, their illumination is nuclear bright and at the highest setting is really too bright even in full sunlight, I turned my down a few notches and felt it was more than adequate. While March and SAI are not nearly as bright as the Vortex they are what I would call "daylight bright" meaning that you can see the illumination in full sunlight. ATI decided to illuminate the full center cross but not the wind dots, while March chose to only illuminate the center dot and nothing else. While March is not really known for their bright reticles (something they could improve upon) the center dot in the DR-1 reticle is surprisingly bright. If your intended purpose for an LPVO is to shoot mostly at 1x then Vortex has the advantage with the brightest dot in the business, SAI's CX9001 reticle with the four bullets pointing to center are another big advantage when using low magnification as the brightness of illumination doesn't quite cut it for me (at 1x). At 1x the March's center dot illumination is visible.

    DISTANCE​

    In other threads I have seen some chatter about how well these scopes do at distance, especially with the fixed parallax and I found mixed results. After playing with the diopters on each scope and trying to get them dialed in just right to my eye, I aimed the scopes from 100 yards out to 1000 and what I found may surprise you. I found the SAI 6 to have better IQ at distance than the Vortex, even though Vortex has a fixed 150 yd parallax and the SAI 6 has it fixed at 110 meters, but for whatever reason the image through the SAI 6 always look more "pleasing" than the image from the Vortex. I am not saying the Vortex was bad or unusable, I would have no issues with taking a shot at distance with the Vortex as it was very nice on it's own, but when compared side by side with the SAI 6 and March, I did feel those scopes had an edge. The overall optical winner was the March, both near and far the optics in the March held more detail, more contrast and provided that Pop that anyone familiar with alpha glass is used to, but the March is over double the price of the SAI 6 and almost $1k more than the Vortex (if you know where to shop for Vortex), so one would hope that when spending that kind of money it gets you something and indeed it does.

    March has really been upping their game lately with short scope designs that perform very well (something that is difficult to do). Kudos to Vortex for their brilliant illumination and shaking things up with a very capable 1-10 design. And brilliant move from ATI by introducing a budget conscience scope that takes the tried and true 1-6 design and improves upon it with a cleverly designed reticle.

    In the next couple posts are the through the scope images, please keep in mind these are meant for giving you an idea of what the reticle and illumination look like at different magnifications, please do not use these as an idea of IQ. Also, in some of the images you will notice that the reticle starts to blur towards the periphery of the sigh picture, keep in mind we are using an optical system which has it's own issues taking images through another optical system. While some blurriness was noted during testing, it was not as bad as the images show and I found all these scopes gave an acceptable level of IQ both for the reticle and for the test targets.

    All images were taken with a Nikon Z6 DSLR with 24-70 f/4 lens set to 28mm. I used manual exposure mode and fixed ISO to ensure the camera did not adjust, with each scope you will begin to notice some brightness falloff as the magnification gets larger, this was barely noticeable to the naked eye because of our eyes ability to compensate for varying light levels, also the sky was overcast mostly and light was changing but I was doing the best I could to get all images shot within a reasonable amount of time. What I found was that illumination was brighter to my naked eye than it appears my camera (sensor) was able to pick up so keep that in mind, illumination appeared brighter than these images show.
     
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    If you notice the inset image seems to have a darker background than the main image it's because my software modified the blackpoint when I created the proof images, this was not my intention and I'm too lazy to go back and change them all over again so please accept my apology.

    ALL ILLUMINATION SETTINGS IN IMAGES WERE AT MAX FOR EACH SCOPE

    AT 1x​

    20210417_ATI_SAI6_1-6x24_CX9001_at1x_001.jpg

    20210417_March_Shorty_1-10x24_DR-1_at1x_001.jpg

    20210417_Vortex_GenIII_1-10x24_EBR-9_MOA_at1x_001.jpg


    AT 2x​

    20210417_ATI_SAI6_1-6x24_CX9001_at2x_002.jpg

    20210417_March_Shorty_1-10x24_DR-1_at2x_002.jpg

    20210417_Vortex_GenIII_1-10x24_EBR-9_MOA_at2x_002.jpg

    AT 4x​

    20210417_ATI_SAI6_1-6x24_CX9001_at4x_003.jpg

    20210417_March_Shorty_1-10x24_DR-1_at4x_003.jpg

    20210417_Vortex_GenIII_1-10x24_EBR-9_MOA_at4x_003.jpg

    AT 6x​

    20210417_ATI_SAI6_1-6x24_CX9001_at6x_004.jpg

    20210417_March_Shorty_1-10x24_DR-1_at6x_004.jpg

    20210417_Vortex_GenIII_1-10x24_EBR-9_MOA_at6x_004.jpg

    AT 8x​

    20210417_March_Shorty_1-10x24_DR-1_at8x_005.jpg

    20210417_Vortex_GenIII_1-10x24_EBR-9_MOA_at8x_005.jpg

    AT 10x​

    Oops, forgot to take a pic of illumination at 10x on the March, ugh
    20210417_March_Shorty_1-10x24_DR-1_at10x_006.jpg


    20210417_Vortex_GenIII_1-10x24_EBR-9_MOA_at10x_006.jpg
     
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    Just to give perspective, from Left to Right: March 1.5-15x42, ATI SAI 6 1-6x24, Bushnell LRHSi 4.5-18x44. As you can see the March is incredibly small!
    20210615_March_1.5-15x42_SFP_ATI_SAI6_1-6x24_Bushnell_LRHSi_4.5-18x44_001.jpg


    Bushnell LRHSi 4.5-18x44 on my SPR
    20210617_Seekins_Aero_SPR_Bushnell_LRHSi_4.5-18x44_004.jpg


    March 1.5-15x42 on my SPR
    20210618_Seekins_Aero_SPR_March_1.5-15x42_SFP_006.jpg


    March 1.5-15x42 with SIMRAD on my SPR
    20210618_PVS-9_KN203_SIMRAD_March_1.5-15x42_SFP_001.jpg
     
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    I'd like to own one of those March in the future but that razorg3 really looks like the best bang for the buck. It doesn't seem to get as much press as I figured it would and I'm not really clear on why.
     
    Excellent write up sir!

    Im wondering why all of the reticle stadia on the March do not seem “centered up.”
    Seems a bit fucky.
     

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    Excellent write up sir!

    Im wondering why all of the reticle stadia on the March do not seem “centered up.”
    Seems a bit fucky.
    Considering the dual reticle design, I might be willing to look past it as long as they line up enough that zeroing at 10x is still effective at 1x. Looks to be less than 0.5 mils, which is sufficient for 1x use IMO.

    But I can also see myself getting very annoyed if it were off that bad as my brain tries to fight "center of the box" vs "crosshair."
     
    Glassaholic excellent comparison 👏 👍

    I feel that the vortex (especially with the warranty cause I can be "rough") is the best bang for the buck.....

    I do wish it had some of the features of the march(parallax, elevation travel,size)....
    With that said.

    With the march 1.5x15 they are too close for me to decide on lol they are both extremely compact.

    Any input on how the 1.5x15 would stack up to these?
     
    Interestingly the "bullets" on the SAI feature in other, older ATI optics like the Elcan OS3X.
     
    Glassaholic excellent comparison 👏 👍
    Thanks, hopefully it helps for some trying to make a decision, but because they are all in different price brackets I'm not sure. At least you see what you get as you increase your budget.
    I feel that the vortex (especially with the warranty cause I can be "rough") is the best bang for the buck.....
    If their BDC reticle went to 800 instead of 600 I would have kept it, it is a phenomenal scope. I should have also mentioned it has the thinnest periphery of all the scopes, sometimes it almost disappeared and I felt like I wasn't even looking through a scope.
    I do wish it had some of the features of the march(parallax, elevation travel,size)....
    With that said.

    With the march 1.5x15 they are too close for me to decide on lol they are both extremely compact.

    Any input on how the 1.5x15 would stack up to these?
    Would like to get more time with the 1.5-15 but other scopes have captured my attention, being a SFP scope that is fixed and reticle is calibrated to 10x it just doesn't have much appeal for me but I am curious to see how well it does.
     
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    Im wondering why all of the reticle stadia on the March do not seem “centered up.”
    What you are seeing is the difference between the SFP lines and the FFP lines, the distance from center should be accurate even if the hash mark is not completely centered, I will ask March and see how they respond.

    This document here references **Image displacement due to zooming conforms to ISO 14135-2:2017.
     
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    Thanks, hopefully it helps for some trying to make a decision, but because they are all in different price brackets I'm not sure. At least you see what you get as you increase your budget.

    If their BDC reticle went to 800 instead of 600 I would have kept it, it is a phenomenal scope. I should have also mentioned it has the thinnest periphery of all the scopes, sometimes it almost disappeared and I felt like I wasn't even looking through a scope.

    Would like to get more time with the 1.5-15 but other scopes have captured my attention, being a SFP scope that is fixed and reticle is calibrated to 10x it just doesn't have much appeal for me but I am curious to see how well it does.

    Is there some kind of detent or stop at 10x? I'm not by any means an experienced long range shooter but I like using my 3-15s on 8-10x for the improved eyebox and fov so it seems like an interesting feature. I wish my lht 3-15 was set up that way as the eyebox is kind of tight on 15x especially for offhand.

    How is the illumination? I started reading up on 1-10 shorty but for that rifle I think I'd go razor. The 1.5-15 would be great on my light weight 20". It could replace a 1-6 and 3-15 and potentially be better in both roles if the dot is daylight bright.
     
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    Really good write up on these scopes, I have been looking at LPVO's for some time now and really like the idea of dual focal plane, for me it just seems to fit this type of scope. I personally like the exposed turrets and adjustable focus/parallax on the March, the only thing I don't like about this scope is the mounting set up, just seems funky to have two different size rings or only one ring or try to squeeze two rings in there. The Vortex looks really nice but I do like exposed turrets for dialing longer distances. have been looking at the Minox ZP-8 1-8x24 which is also dual focal plane, just don't see much info on this scope, I have a ZP-5 5-25 and love it, would like to see some comparisons between the ZP-8 and some of the other high end LPVO's
     
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    Outstanding review!

    Regarding the march retile at 10x, I have seen some other reviewer posted video and images elsewhere on the Internet. Here are some examples:

    I took the liberty to make some screenshots from the videos in the second link:
    1.JPG

    2.JPG


    I think if you look hard enough, there may be a tiny bit of misalignment between the two reticles. However, I would still applaud March for achieving such feat with a scope that compact.

    Which one are you keeping for your MDR?
     
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    Really good write up on these scopes, I have been looking at LPVO's for some time now and really like the idea of dual focal plane, for me it just seems to fit this type of scope. I personally like the exposed turrets and adjustable focus/parallax on the March, the only thing I don't like about this scope is the mounting set up, just seems funky to have two different size rings or only one ring or try to squeeze two rings in there. The Vortex looks really nice but I do like exposed turrets for dialing longer distances. have been looking at the Minox ZP-8 1-8x24 which is also dual focal plane, just don't see much info on this scope, I have a ZP-5 5-25 and love it, would like to see some comparisons between the ZP-8 and some of the other high end LPVO's
    Talk to @koshkin he is the LPVO master and has more experience than most. He's had the Minox ZP8, the Schmidt and a few other alpha class LPVO's so he can definitely give you the heads up there.
     
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    Which one are you keeping for your MDR?
    As much as I like the Shorty, the MDR is really more designated for CQB type work and having a reticle that I can quickly hold out to distance seems the more logical choice, the Vortex only went to 600 so I've already sold that. If the reticle BDC values are even close to the 7.62 loads then I think the SAI 6 will be the one. This is purely a personal preference for me that is driving this decision.
     
    Is there some kind of detent or stop at 10x? I'm not by any means an experienced long range shooter but I like using my 3-15s on 8-10x for the improved eyebox and fov so it seems like an interesting feature. I wish my lht 3-15 was set up that way as the eyebox is kind of tight on 15x especially for offhand.

    How is the illumination? I started reading up on 1-10 shorty but for that rifle I think I'd go razor. The 1.5-15 would be great on my light weight 20". It could replace a 1-6 and 3-15 and potentially be better in both roles if the dot is daylight bright.
    Alright, I guess it's time to take the 1.5-15 out of the box, but will have to be this next week as I'm getting ready for my daughters graduation (high school) party in a few minutes, so you might need to remind me a few times ;)
     
    As much as I like the Shorty, the MDR is really more designated for CQB type work and having a reticle that I can quickly hold out to distance seems the more logical choice, the Vortex only went to 600 so I've already sold that. If the reticle BDC values are even close to the 7.62 loads then I think the SAI 6 will be the one. This is purely a personal preference for me that is driving this decision.
    Trade you my NX8 for the Shorty. :ROFLMAO:
     
    Is there some kind of detent or stop at 10x? I'm not by any means an experienced long range shooter but I like using my 3-15s on 8-10x for the improved eyebox and fov so it seems like an interesting feature. I wish my lht 3-15 was set up that way as the eyebox is kind of tight on 15x especially for offhand.

    How is the illumination? I started reading up on 1-10 shorty but for that rifle I think I'd go razor. The 1.5-15 would be great on my light weight 20". It could replace a 1-6 and 3-15 and potentially be better in both roles if the dot is daylight bright.
    The March 1.5-15X42 does have a daylight bright center dot. However, let me say this about this riflescope. It is a brand-new design with respect to the objective lens group. A 42mm objective with a 1.5X minimum magnification is quite something. And the whole unit is quite small. When you handle it, you will notice the increased heft in the objective lens group; there's something going on there.

    I have one on my AR-10 and I use it in NRA AR-type competition at 600 yards. It's a lot of fun. I believe the reason the reticle is subtended for 10X is because they are using their existing reticles, such as the awesome MTR-5 in this riflescope, and it is geared for a multiple of 10X magnification. I have that reticle in my March-X 5-50X56 and my March-X 10-60X56 HM. At 40X, the reticle is completely meaningful, but I run my March-X 10-60X56 HM at 50X all the time because its Super ED lenses are so well suited to my eyes in the conditions encountered in South East Texas in the summertime.
     
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    The 1-10 gets way more press and is why I started looking at March products but after doing some reading the 1.5-15 looks more interesting. Seems it would be a great scope for a woods gun and simple to use. A tactile way to know you're at 10x and daylight bright dot for easy both eyes open on 1.5x are key. Is the illumination razor g2, g3, nx8, p4xi bright? I know the illumination thing gets beat to death but being a 1.5 I'm thinking a very bright dot would be key to speed on the bottom end.
     
    Alright, I guess it's time to take the 1.5-15 out of the box, but will have to be this next week as I'm getting ready for my daughters graduation (high school) party in a few minutes, so you might need to remind me a few times ;)
    Paging Glassaholic : This is your "daily reminder " ...🤓
     
    Paging Glassaholic : This is your "daily reminder " ...🤓
    Give him a break. :)

    He did say he was dealing with a daughter graduation this weekend. That can be exhausting.

    My youngest daughter graduated high school 10 days ago and to make it even worse, she graduated summa cum laude. That cost me a bundle and lots of celebration for several days. I'm still recovering.:sleep:
     
    Paging Glassaholic : This is your "daily reminder " ...🤓
    Well I finally pulled it out and began to play with it... umm, maybe I should rephrase that.

    Wow, this scope is short, that fact alone brings a lot of curb appeal. I am not hip on SFP scopes and wish March could somehow work some magic and turn this into a FFP scope. Illumination is a similar dot to the 1-10 Shorty but I do not think they are using the same illumination technology as the dot in the 1.5-15 is not daylight bright, it virtually disappears when looking at anything in the sunlight. There is no detent at the 10x point, that would be a novel feature but what you do have is magnification lettering in red (at 5x and 10x), which means you have to pull your eye off the target to visually see where the magic 10x mark is should you decide to use the moa hash marks. SFP, non-daylight bright illumination and no mechanical indication of being on 10x to use the hash marks really take this out of the running - for me, I can see a lot of other shooters not being bothered by this, I'm just sharing my personal preference. Outside of these issues, I love the scope, size and weight are right (could be awesome for NV clipons), turrets are great, glass is typical March quality which is outstanding.

    Wish list for March on the 1.5-15x42:
    • Make a FFP version of this scope
    • Use the same illumination technology in your 1-10 Shorty, or somehow make it daylight bright. Much cheaper scopes have daylight bright illumination so you should be able to figure this out.
    • Come up with a nice mrad tree reticle that works at 1.5x and not overly thick at 15x
     
    Well that's a boat load of fail. Thanks for telling it like it is.

    The detent thing isn't my idea. The lord of optics guy mentioned it. Don't remember if he'd seen a scope that had it or it was just an idea of his.
     
    Last edited:
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    Well I finally pulled it out and began to play with it... umm, maybe I should rephrase that.

    Wow, this scope is short, that fact alone brings a lot of curb appeal. I am not hip on SFP scopes and wish March could somehow work some magic and turn this into a FFP scope. Illumination is a similar dot to the 1-10 Shorty but I do not think they are using the same illumination technology as the dot in the 1.5-15 is not daylight bright, it virtually disappears when looking at anything in the sunlight. There is no detent at the 10x point, that would be a novel feature but what you do have is magnification lettering in red (at 5x and 10x), which means you have to pull your eye off the target to visually see where the magic 10x mark is should you decide to use the moa hash marks. SFP, non-daylight bright illumination and no mechanical indication of being on 10x to use the hash marks really take this out of the running - for me, I can see a lot of other shooters not being bothered by this, I'm just sharing my personal preference. Outside of these issues, I love the scope, size and weight are right (could be awesome for NV clipons), turrets are great, glass is typical March quality which is outstanding.

    Wish list for March on the 1.5-15x42:
    • Make a FFP version of this scope
    • Use the same illumination technology in your 1-10 Shorty, or somehow make it daylight bright. Much cheaper scopes have daylight bright illumination so you should be able to figure this out.
    • Come up with a nice mrad tree reticle that works at 1.5x and not overly thick at 15x
    Thank you for the update. I was about to pull the trigger on one but I'll give it time to stay in the oven .
     
    Thank you for the update. I was about to pull the trigger on one but I'll give it time to stay in the oven .
    That’s why I wanted to pull it out and take a quick look. I’d like to spend a little more time with it, but those were the items I felt you and others were most interested in that I could check quickly. Denys has said it is ideal for an NRA comp he attends so there is application and it’s possible the scope was designed for this purpose.
     
    Right, but isn’t Elcan a relatively new acquisition for ATI?
    No, I believe they've been the parent company (master distributor?) for quite some time. I used to have an Elcan OS3X and ATI was referenced in the manual.
     
    I was probably being overly harsh. I was after the features rather than the glass and am probably not March's target audience. Seemed like an interesting concept.
    @GreenMushroom I think you were completely above board and stated cogently why this riflescope is not for you. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I have this scope on one of my rifles with which I compete in the NRA Tac division at 600 yards. I have never used illumination in my decades of competition. To be fair, for the first 20 years or so, I was using iron sights. When I switched over to F-Class 16 years ago, I used a series of riflescope that virtually all had illumination. I never used it, reason being that for the accuracy required, illumination brings in artifacts that seem to cause issues with the central dot or cross or whatever is in the scope, to my eye. I have used illumination when hunting hogs at night, but as you might guess, I'm not using an F-TR rifle to do that.

    That said, when I stated that the March 1.5-15X42 had a daylight illuminated dot, I was quoting from the documentation. I simply had never tried it. So after reading other comments, I got off my butt and went down to get that rifle out of the safe and try out the scope with the illuminated dot. As Glassoholic stated, it gets washed out in bright daylight.

    As I have stated before this March 1.5-15X42 is a brand new design in the objective lens group and it's Deon's first design with that technology. I will tell you that I find this scope very impressive for what it is. This is a small, lightweight riflescope with oodles of power and a big-ash objective for a lot of incoming light.

    I have a tendency to compare various riflescopes to my awesome March-X 10-60X56 HM in terms of power, brightness and IQ at high magnification and that's totally unfair. I have explained earlier how the 1.5-15X42 has the same reticle at my 10-60X56, the MTR-5. This further confuses my already-addled brain, especially looking at the same target face and at the same range. I shoot at 50X at 600yards with my 10-60X56 so when I look at essentially the same target also at 600yards but now at 15X, it's confusing to this old man, at least for a few minutes. However, the picture in the 1.5-15X42 is very bright and it's clear and crisp. It's a hoot to shoot with it.

    This scope was initially aimed at the hunting market where SFP seems to be more popular than FFP. When it was pointed out that the new NRA class allowed riflescopes up to but not exceeding 15X, that became an opportunity. Now, I have no insight into the plans and thinking of Deon, but if history is anything to go by, this new riflescope technology may well herald other models and as we saw with the recent announcement about the upcoming tree reticle for the 1-10X24 Dual Reticle, Deon does listen to its customers. So, go to their website and fill out that Contact Us form and tell them what you said here.
     
    ^^^ I agree Denys, I see a very bright future for this scope design (1.5-15x42). I'm going to get it mounted up on my SPR and try it out, the size is just phenomenal. I too have noticed March has been very responsive to their customer base, so who knows what next iteration there might be (y)
     
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    Glass, thank you very much for the review!
    I had the SAI in my cart and I would have been sorely disappointed, as I would have invetetabably compared it to my swaro 1-6 that I so stupidly got rid of.
    Heartfelt congratulations re: the daughter's graduation!
    Jordan
     
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    @GreenMushroom I think you were completely above board and stated cogently why this riflescope is not for you. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I have this scope on one of my rifles with which I compete in the NRA Tac division at 600 yards. I have never used illumination in my decades of competition. To be fair, for the first 20 years or so, I was using iron sights. When I switched over to F-Class 16 years ago, I used a series of riflescope that virtually all had illumination. I never used it, reason being that for the accuracy required, illumination brings in artifacts that seem to cause issues with the central dot or cross or whatever is in the scope, to my eye. I have used illumination when hunting hogs at night, but as you might guess, I'm not using an F-TR rifle to do that.

    That said, when I stated that the March 1.5-15X42 had a daylight illuminated dot, I was quoting from the documentation. I simply had never tried it. So after reading other comments, I got off my butt and went down to get that rifle out of the safe and try out the scope with the illuminated dot. As Glassoholic stated, it gets washed out in bright daylight.

    As I have stated before this March 1.5-15X42 is a brand new design in the objective lens group and it's Deon's first design with that technology. I will tell you that I find this scope very impressive for what it is. This is a small, lightweight riflescope with oodles of power and a big-ash objective for a lot of incoming light.

    I have a tendency to compare various riflescopes to my awesome March-X 10-60X56 HM in terms of power, brightness and IQ at high magnification and that's totally unfair. I have explained earlier how the 1.5-15X42 has the same reticle at my 10-60X56, the MTR-5. This further confuses my already-addled brain, especially looking at the same target face and at the same range. I shoot at 50X at 600yards with my 10-60X56 so when I look at essentially the same target also at 600yards but now at 15X, it's confusing to this old man, at least for a few minutes. However, the picture in the 1.5-15X42 is very bright and it's clear and crisp. It's a hoot to shoot with it.

    This scope was initially aimed at the hunting market where SFP seems to be more popular than FFP. When it was pointed out that the new NRA class allowed riflescopes up to but not exceeding 15X, that became an opportunity. Now, I have no insight into the plans and thinking of Deon, but if history is anything to go by, this new riflescope technology may well herald other models and as we saw with the recent announcement about the upcoming tree reticle for the 1-10X24 Dual Reticle, Deon does listen to its customers. So, go to their website and fill out that Contact Us form and tell them what you said here.

    Will do. I haven't done much long range shooting since I was a teenager 20+ years ago. I have a couple of spr type 556 rifles that normally wear 1-6s. I picked up a couple 3-15 recently to play around with. A Vortex Lht and pst2. Both are nice scopes but the thing that stands out is the eyebox and fov are amazing compared to the hunting scopes of yester year.

    Every since the 1st time I shouldered the lht I couldn't help thinking it would be awesome with a daylight bright dot. It's surprisingly easy to snap shoot as is and I think with a dot and some practice it wouldn't be much slower than a 1-6. I considered an accupoint 2.5-12 (I have the 1-6 and love it) but it doesn't have an exposed elevation turret because a giant glowing triangle is a great bdc reticle.
     
    Every since the 1st time I shouldered the lht I couldn't help thinking it would be awesome with a daylight bright dot. It's surprisingly easy to snap shoot

    I did exactly this on my ar. Its a little slow inside a house BUT DOABLE.......add a 45 degree offset reddot (or piggy back if that's your thing)

    It looks a little funny but it's good from 0-750 yards......... and its light....and it has an excellent warranty so I don't feel bad using it hard....

    Excellent scope for the cash....


    But man that march 1.5x15 is soooo much smaller........I want it to replace the lht......LOL
     
    Thanks, hopefully it helps for some trying to make a decision, but because they are all in different price brackets I'm not sure. At least you see what you get as you increase your budget.

    If their BDC reticle went to 800 instead of 600 I would have kept it, it is a phenomenal scope. I should have also mentioned it has the thinnest periphery of all the scopes, sometimes it almost disappeared and I felt like I wasn't even looking through a scope.

    Would like to get more time with the 1.5-15 but other scopes have captured my attention, being a SFP scope that is fixed and reticle is calibrated to 10x it just doesn't have much appeal for me but I am curious to see how well it does.
    I certainly appreciate the review 👍👍

    I too would like the ret to extend past 600 as I have been shooting my ar at about 750 lately...

    The 2nd focal plane doesn't bother me ,I actually prefer it........yes it can make you mess up if you think your on the right power .

    I like how I can dial down the power and "get more elevation" out of my ret.......
    I also appreciate the consistent aiming dot...

    What can I say I like ffp....but its definitely not a requirement for me at this time.
     
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    I did exactly this on my ar. Its a little slow inside a house BUT DOABLE.......add a 45 degree offset reddot (or piggy back if that's your thing)
    That's how I setup my LRHSi, I love the G2H for close up at low mag, 4.5x is easy with the G2H, and I just started piggybacking my DPP, but now I've got to try it with the March 1.5-15 and see how I like that.

    20210504_Bushnell_LRHSi_4.5-18x44_Spuhr_SCP-3001_Leupold_DPP_ 003.jpg


    20210504_Bushnell_LRHSi_4.5-18x44_Spuhr_SCP-3001_Leupold_DPP_ 005.jpg
     
    I did exactly this on my ar. Its a little slow inside a house BUT DOABLE.......add a 45 degree offset reddot (or piggy back if that's your thing)

    It looks a little funny but it's good from 0-750 yards......... and its light....and it has an excellent warranty so I don't feel bad using it hard....

    Excellent scope for the cash....


    But man that march 1.5x15 is soooo much smaller........I want it to replace the lht......LOL

    Doable is the perfect way to describe it. Not great but good enough to get the gears turning. I live in a rugged heavily wooded area and the rifle in question usually wears a bushy SMRS2 1-6.5 pro which is a perfect walking around the woods scope. The 3-15s ride in my spotter bag and were intended to only be used for setting up somewhere to target shoot off bibods but the lht especially seems to be quite useful as a general purpose optic. I'll still use the bushy most of the time due to size/weight.

    I spent most of my glass budget on spotting equipment and haven't seen a reason to step up from mid range Japanese rifle scopes. Now if I can get the size, weight, magnification range, with a daylight bright dot and top shelf glass all in one package then we're talking about something worth spending 2-3k on.
     
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    Gen3 on steel to 1000y video
    Just saw this.

    Quotable quotes from the video
    "Big girls need lovin' too" seriously :D
    "I never thought I could use a 10 power scope at these distances" I continue to be amazed that so many people still equate distance shooting to greater magnification. That being said I was impressed with his group at 1000.

    I should try the same with the March 1-10 out to 1000...
     
    Quotable quotes from the video
    "Big girls need lovin' too" seriously :D
    "I never thought I could use a 10 power scope at these distances" I continue to be amazed that so many people still equate distance shooting to greater magnification. That being said I was impressed with his group at 1000.

    I should try the same with the March 1-10 out to 1000...
    Agreed.
    Wasn't the standard Marine sniper scope a fixed 10x out to 1k back in the day ?
     
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    10X at 1000 yards is like shooting 1X at 100 yards. It certainly can be done. When I started in F-class 15+ years ago, my rifle had a 2.5-10X44 scope on it. In 2007, when the NRA sanctioned F-class and issued the FC targets, things got very difficult. When the X ring is 5 inches in diameter at 1000 yards with a 10X scope, it's like shooting at a half inch target at 100 yards, with a 1X scope.

    I used to shoot Palma and Fullbore at 1000 yards with iron sights but the peep sights were set to match the apparent size of the aiming black at a set distance. You shoot the 44 inch black dot and you dial the adjustments needed to keep you in the center of the black dot. I was doing the same thing with the 10X scope because centering the rather thick reticle on the black dot was iffy at best and there was no way you could reliably shade the hold.

    Now I run my riflescope at 50X and I can place my dot exactly where I want on the target, pull the trigger and still get surprised by the switch I didn't see and get a 9 or worse. But when I have the read the conditions right, I can blast away on the same spot, say 2 and a half lines right, favor low, and collect Xs one after another, for as long as the conditions hold or I mess up, whichever comes first.
     
    A couple of comments on the 1.5-15x42 reticle illumination.

    The MTR-5 in the scope Bill has is a conventional etch-and-fill illumination and it is not day bright. They do have a version of this scope with FD-1 and FD-2 reticle, but covered turrets. These are fiber dot illuminated designs (FD-1 is the same thing as the SFP reticle in the 1-10x24 Shorty) and they are reasonably daybright.

    ILya
     
    A couple of comments on the 1.5-15x42 reticle illumination.

    The MTR-5 in the scope Bill has is a conventional etch-and-fill illumination and it is not day bright. They do have a version of this scope with FD-1 and FD-2 reticle, but covered turrets. These are fiber dot illuminated designs (FD-1 is the same thing as the SFP reticle in the 1-10x24 Shorty) and they are reasonably daybright.

    ILya
    Brilliant. I’d love to see them produce an SFP variant of your FML-TR1 in the 1.5-15 but calibrated for 15x instead of 10x, if they could somehow make a daylight bright etch-and-fill illumination like many OEM’s from LOW that would be even more compelling. The 1.5-15 is really growing on me, in the right configuration I could see myself wanting that more than the 1-10.
     
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    Brilliant. I’d love to see them produce an SFP variant of your FML-TR1 in the 1.5-15 but calibrated for 15x instead of 10x, if they could somehow make a daylight bright etch-and-fill illumination like many OEM’s from LOW that would be even more compelling. The 1.5-15 is really growing on me, in the right configuration I could see myself wanting that more than the 1-10.

    There isn't really a true daylight bright etch-and-fill reticle out there. The closest is Sig Tango 6t 1-6x24 and they have a pretty thick donut to illuminate. Larger area helps in this case.

    Reticle calibration on 10x is a mistake, I think, but a it is not uncommon when companies want to keep reticle reasonably thin. FML-TR1 was realy designed for FFP scopes. If I were making one for a SFP scope, I would probably do it a little differently.

    ILya
     
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    There isn't really a true daylight bright etch-and-fill reticle out there. The closest is Sig Tango 6t 1-6x24 and they have a pretty thick donut to illuminate. Larger area helps in this case.
    I suppose we need to define what I mean by daylight bright - is the reticle bright enough to see during bright sunlight, it doesn’t have to be glowing but enough to differentiate between the black reticle and see red illumination. And not LPVO mind you but long range scopes. Reticle on the Kahles, ZCO, Bushnell LRHS, NF and Vortex are all what I consider daylight bright, much brighter than anything from March. So what technology are they using that March does not have access to?
     
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    I suppose we need to define what I mean by daylight bright - is the reticle bright enough to see during bright sunlight, it doesn’t have to be glowing but enough to differentiate between the black reticle and see red illumination. And not LPVO mind you but long range scopes. Reticle on the Kahles, ZCO, Bushnell LRHS, NF and Vortex are all what I consider daylight bright, much brighter than anything from March. So what technology are they using that March does not have access to?

    all of these are day visible, but not really day bright and, to me, barely day visible unless against a black background

    Ilya
     
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