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LPVO or red dot for general purpose and SHTF truck gun

david walter

david walter

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Jul 22, 2007
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Out west, but not too far west
What are you running, and what advantages does your choice have over the other?

Debating replacing my MRO with a LPVO.

Except for better target ID, is there an advantage in real terms for a SHTF truck gun?

Went to Thunder Ranch a while back wit the Mrs. She was running a red dot, me an LPVO. Hit percentages were pretty close out to 300 yards.
 
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Regional considerations are big when deciding this. Where I live, we have lots of open, high desert terrain. This is totally different than when I lived in New England, the South, or PNW.

Here’s a good image that contrasts the difference in sight picture between RDS and LPVO:

iu


Since more compact LPVOs are available now, I like them a lot, but I’m primarily shooting a lot of long range even with shorter AR-15s in Grendel. For me, it’s hard to beat a 12” or shorter 6.5 Grendel AR with a tiny suppressor on the end, with a good LPVO.

20230519_202059.jpg


If I was still living out East where I rarely saw 200yd+ distances, I might have gone down a different path. The shorty Grendels work great in the thicker terrain as well though, and a small 1-4x or compact prism optic is great in that terrain.

The shape of the optic relative to the blaster is also something to think about when banging it around in the truck, but I use small carbine cases for that. I’m working on a little PDW set-up now that will be even more ideal for the trucks. Something like this seems like a great truck gun option:

iu
 
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I agree for close in (for me) nothing beats a dot. But my truck gun 20" AR has an MPVO for coyotes. My 16" will have a dot, maybe LPVO with offset dot.
 
The LPVO is the choice for the unknown.
It won’t beat red dot for red dot shit but it can come close in some areas.

Many incorrectly equate magnification to distance. “I can shoot 200y with my red dot, you’ll never justify a shot past ## yards”.
Seeing small details/partial targets at short distances is important too 😉
 
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3x Prism. Usually a larger sight picture than an LPVO, etched reticle than is useful even when batteries die. Always the same sight picture when you use it - no throw lever or magnification to adjust in a hurry, if that’s a concern. Economical ie ‘cheap’ examples can punch above their price range relative to variable power optics. DLO has some insight on their value in that regard.
I like the Steiner M332 and Swampfox Trihawk 3x. The Trihawk even has Shake awake illumination.
 
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SHTF think about this.
Batteries and electronics...
A well designed LPVO can be used even if the batteries are dead or there are none and even if somebody has done an EMP spike or such.

Are we talking about a .223 or similar rifle or some small essentially glorified pistol / AR Pistol thing?

My suggestion, is an LPVO with a side mounted (or top mounted) red dot for most "general purpose / truck gun / SHTF gun"
If it's a home defense carbine, then a large window (not the tiny things) true holographic red dot sight is very hard to beat for what it does.

A large window holographic RDS will get you on target minute of bad guy at close range much closer than any LPVO

But once you get out a little further the LPVO starts to beat it easily.

Having both is a good thing.
 
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I'm interested on how the new PA GLx 1X prism will turn out. Pretty much the eye relief of a red dot. It's it's an etched reticle them there will always be some sort of a dot even without illumination.
 
My truck gun used to be a 700 adl in 22-250. Kind of unwieldy but it was my main squeeze until I shot it out.

My ar15 kind of became my go to after that. I ran an eotech for a long time and was good on dog size critters to 300 yards. I don't think you can beat an eotech for close engagements. But how often are we doing that ?

Then I moved to the swfa 1-4x lpvo and then the 1-6x viper pst gen2. I chose the pst for the center dot illumination and the more coarse sfp reticle. It shows up better in dim lighting at all magnification.

Now I'm on to the mpvo. Currently the 2-10x credo. (I actually like the fact it doesn't have parallax adjustment) The 6x left me wanting when trying to make out finer details on animals. For my uses at the moment it's been the best setup so far. My gun travels with me, rides around in the sidexside, frequent trips to the lease etc. It really is my do all gun. A top mounted dot is on the way and I think it'll be my setup for a while.
 
I got an ACOG ECOS 10 years ago and loved it. Then everyone told me it was stoopid and I needed a T2 with FTS magnifier, so I got that. Then everyone told me that was stoopid and an LPVO was the only way Ninjas should roll, so I got a bunch of those too. Then everyone said “Boy! Y’all be needin’ a Red Dot for that LPVO or you gonna die in SHTF!” So I did that.

Now I’m back to my ECOS cuz it’s best afterall.

ARF/Hide Cognoscenti can kiss my ass.
 
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My truck/go to gun is a 16” 556 with a 1-8. It’s perfect for absolutely nothing but does everything good enough.

To me, cheap LPVO’s suck. If your budget is in the $5-600 range, get a good dot or holo sight. I like etched reticles. There are several accounts of delaminating reticles even in the $1000 plus 2nd focal plane lpvo options.

Lots of people think they want a lpvo until they get one. I know quite a few people that bought them, found that they weren’t as fast at 1x as they were with their dots/holos or found out that 8 or 10x with their lpvo wasn’t as easy to get behind as their 2.5-10 or 3-18 mpvo’s. They found out that task specific optics excel at their specific tasks.

They’re compromise optics that for most will never be as fast at 1x as the dots/holos and never be as good at 8/10x as the 2.5ish-20ish mpvo optics at the same magnification when shooting distance. If you buy one knowing it’s a compromise at both ends and are willing live with that, you’d probably be happy with one of the good ffp etched reticle LPVO’s.
 
cannot think of a single instance where a red dot is better than a lpvo unless it's a sbr/short barreled rifle

Burris rt6 is the smallest, most compact under 1k and will do everything you need or could possibly need. Jack of all trades and all that
 
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Jsp556 said:
My truck/go to gun is a 16” 556 with a 1-8. It’s perfect for absolutely nothing but does everything good enough.

To me, cheap LPVO’s suck. If your budget is in the $5-600 range, get a good dot or holo sight. I like etched reticles. There are several accounts of delaminating reticles even in the $1000 plus 2nd focal plane lpvo options.

Lots of people think they want a lpvo until they get one. I know quite a few people that bought them, found that they weren’t as fast at 1x as they were with their dots/holos or found out that 8 or 10x with their lpvo wasn’t as easy to get behind as their 2.5-10 or 3-18 mpvo’s. They found out that task specific optics excel at their specific tasks.

They’re compromise optics that for most will never be as fast at 1x as the dots/holos and never be as good at 8/10x as the 2.5ish-20ish mpvo optics at the same magnification when shooting distance. If you buy one knowing it’s a compromise at both ends and are willing live with that, you’d probably be happy with one of the good ffp etched reticle LPVO’s.
Click to expand...
definitely don't agree

have razors and nx8 and rt6 and zero question, the razor and nx8 are a different class but under 1k, I can't find anything that beat the rt6 enough to warrant the extra coin. In addition that, the inside uses ss vs aluminum and they take a fking beating, tanks!
 
Makinchips208 said:
For truck gun, 556 with nightforce or leupold LPVO


That’s nice! What caliber?
Click to expand...
45 colt
I am using handload data from Paco Kelly. Its a 300 grain XTP pushed to just over 1800fps which gives me 2150-ish muzzle energy. They expand to over .70" at 100 yards. I have only shot them to 150 though but that loading is more powerful than the original Sharps load used for Bison. Rifle holds 12+1

I have the same set up in 357 mag, except is has an MRO on it. I get 2425fps with the 140 grain XTP mags. That one gets just at 1800ft lbs....not bad for a "pistol" cartridge. Its also VERY accurate
20230822_133057.jpg
 

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day to day truck gun for a civilized world….irons

when i’m feeling like cyberpolygon is eminent …lpvo seems like a good idea but ultimately i like an rds or mepro m21 reflex backed up with irons.
 
W54/XM-388 said:
SHTF think about this.
Batteries and electronics...
A well designed LPVO can be used even if the batteries are dead or there are none and even if somebody has done an EMP spike or such.

Are we talking about a .223 or similar rifle or some small essentially glorified pistol / AR Pistol thing?

My suggestion, is an LPVO with a side mounted (or top mounted) red dot for most "general purpose / truck gun / SHTF gun"
If it's a home defense carbine, then a large window (not the tiny things) true holographic red dot sight is very hard to beat for what it does.

A large window holographic RDS will get you on target minute of bad guy at close range much closer than any LPVO

But once you get out a little further the LPVO starts to beat it easily.

Having both is a good thing.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Hence my love for Eotech. Batteries dead? Put the shitbag in the box and pull trigger.
 
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Jsp556 said:
My truck/go to gun is a 16” 556 with a 1-8. It’s perfect for absolutely nothing but does everything good enough.

To me, cheap LPVO’s suck. If your budget is in the $5-600 range, get a good dot or holo sight. I like etched reticles. There are several accounts of delaminating reticles even in the $1000 plus 2nd focal plane lpvo options.

Lots of people think they want a lpvo until they get one. I know quite a few people that bought them, found that they weren’t as fast at 1x as they were with their dots/holos or found out that 8 or 10x with their lpvo wasn’t as easy to get behind as their 2.5-10 or 3-18 mpvo’s. They found out that task specific optics excel at their specific tasks.

They’re compromise optics that for most will never be as fast at 1x as the dots/holos and never be as good at 8/10x as the 2.5ish-20ish mpvo optics at the same magnification when shooting distance. If you buy one knowing it’s a compromise at both ends and are willing live with that, you’d probably be happy with one of the good ffp etched reticle LPVO’s.
Click to expand...

i consider the trijicon tr24 to be a cheap lpvo and for me, its absolutely 99% as fast as an rds from 20yds and out.

i still like an rds though. light. simple.

my tr24 spends the majority of its time at 1x when i’m out training.
 
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I’m about to replace my truck gun optic, sig Romeo 5, with a Burris RT6 I’ve had laying around for a couple years. I was checking batteries one day, which I do regularly, and thought having a reticle not relying on batteries but having illuminated option would be nice. As would the extra zoom.

My truck gun is more likely to be used on coyotes then anything but its ready for whatever. If it gets stolen or burns up in my truck it’s a minor loss and headache compared to my X95/Aimpoint PRO or SBR AR/Aimpoint Duty RDS
 
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RUTGERS95 said:
definitely don't agree

have razors and nx8 and rt6 and zero question, the razor and nx8 are a different class but under 1k, I can't find anything that beat the rt6 enough to warrant the extra coin. In addition that, the inside uses ss vs aluminum and they take a fking beating, tanks!
Click to expand...
Disagree on the price point/quality?
 
tucaz said:
i consider the trijicon tr24 to be a cheap lpvo and for me, its absolutely 99% as fast as an rds from 20yds and out.

i still like an rds though. light. simple.

my tr24 spends the majority of its time at 1x when i’m out training.
Click to expand...
Tr-24’s arent cheap optics. They list for over $1k today but you can definitely find them cheaper.

The key statement you made was that you train with it.
 
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My truck gun is an AR10 carbine with lpvo. My SHTF scenario with it is having to get back home without the truck. Avoid people and thereby conflicts. Avoid buildings and thereby CQB wherever possible. It has 1x if I had to fight close but 8x if I get to choose the engagement distance, which will be long. I never use it for much else but practice.
 
Jsp556 said:
Tr-24’s arent cheap optics. They list for over $1k today but you can definitely find them cheaper.

The key statement you made was that you train with it.
Click to expand...
$780 at midway but ya, i get ya. not cheap but at the bottom of the decent scope range.

i do my part to support the ammo industry. 👍🏻
 
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Jsp556 said:
Disagree on the price point/quality?
Click to expand...
I do, I think you can find some lpvos under 1k that will do what you need. LPVOs by nature are jack of all trades master of none but that doesn't mean they aren't effective. All arent' created equal but price doesn't dictate effective quality either

just my opinion on my experience:)
 
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RUTGERS95 said:
I do, I think you can find some lpvos under 1k that will do what you need. LPVOs by nature are jack of all trades master of none but that doesn't mean they aren't effective. All arent' created equal but price doesn't dictate effective quality either

just my opinion on my experience:)
Click to expand...

I have a XTRII 1-8 on my "class" rifle (pws mk216). Its been to CQC, Urban Sniper and Counter Sniper courses. Zero regrets on that purchase.
 
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I would say an lpvo with top or 45 off-set mount micro dot or a red dot/halo sight with a magnifier for a "general purpose truck gun" in any area/situation. I have a 16" AR in 5.56 with a red dot and back up irons.
 
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wvfarrier said:
Not for Urban Courses. If I was going to be humping it across the mountains, definitely. Keep in mind that in these courses you also are not carrying a ruck with 65 pounds of pain in them.
Click to expand...
That would fit in the truck gun category. Not humping much. Basically a rifle of opportunity. You're running around and something pops up while you're out and about. A quick day pack with your essentials augments this.
 
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My truck gun, I keep in my semi truck Winchester defender 1300 12ga w/ 00 buck and no sights. Pistol grip, no stock. In a SHTF scenario which plagued 2020, stopped traffic, rioters, protestors, I just dont want to be a Reginald Denny. SHTF scenario is just get me the hell out of there alive if i become immobilized in some big city on the highway. No need for sights I dont plan on engaging in a firefight and if they are far enough away to require a magnified optic i am gone.

My second choice I almost put in the truck is a 10"5 AR w/ 3x prism scope. Burris AR332, Illuminated its quick acquisition and if battery is dead it still has big etched reticle circle and was cheap. Zeroed at 50yds it groups 2.5" w/ fast follow ups. Tried a red dot Votex strikefire and same results got 4.5" group @50yds and to me isnt any faster target acquisition, and if battery dies its worthless. I prefer the 3x prism scope, its more "do-all". In my SHTF scenarios this may be more viable than the 12ga. if things heat up for this election season... 2020 someone shot my tire out while driving down the highway, I hope this years isnt as bad but they say the dims are going to throw everything they can at it.
 
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Green461 said:
My truck gun, I keep in my semi truck Winchester defender 1300 12ga w/ 00 buck and no sights. Pistol grip, no stock. In a SHTF scenario which plagued 2020, stopped traffic, rioters, protestors, I just dont want to be a Reginald Denny. SHTF scenario is just get me the hell out of there alive if i become immobilized in some big city on the highway. No need for sights I dont plan on engaging in a firefight and if they are far enough away to require a magnified optic i am gone.

My second choice I almost put in the truck is a 10"5 AR w/ 3x prism scope. Burris AR332, Illuminated its quick acquisition and if battery is dead it still has big etched reticle circle and was cheap. Zeroed at 50yds it groups 2.5" w/ fast follow ups. Tried a red dot Votex strikefire and same results got 4.5" group @50yds and to me isnt any faster target acquisition, and if battery dies its worthless. I prefer the 3x prism scope, its more "do-all". In my SHTF scenarios this may be more viable than the 12ga. if things heat up for this election season... 2020 someone shot my tire out while driving down the highway, I hope this years isnt as bad but they say the dims are going to throw everything they can at it.
Click to expand...
I like the primary arms 3X for the same reason
 
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