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Rifle Scopes Lvpo in lowlight conditions

magtech

Ole one eye
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 22, 2013
289
218
I've been looks to scope a 16" AR for a while now and I think I'm settling towards a LVPO. I know each brand and model are different but in general how do they do in lowlight compared to something like your standard 40mm objective.

I've been tossing the idea around of getting a razor (maybe a Steiner p4 if I'm poor at the time) to throw on it and practice out to 600, but every gun is a hunting gun in my house, even a $1500 AR... So there comes in the lowlight.

On top of all this I acquired a crossbow this year and a LVPO would be fun to switch to this, if it could handle lowlight well.

So, on top of all the other optic qualifications we talk about on here. Are LVPOs descent at the end of shooting light, or am offf my rocker for trying?
 
It's all about glass quality and exit pupil. Depending on your magnification needs, it will not be any worse than a 40mm objective.
 
Like Rfutch said, it’s all about exit pupil. I have a 1-8 Trijicon and it’s great on 1-4x but it gets pretty dark on 8 late in the day.

Consider the distances in which you want to shoot in low light. You should be in great shape at crossbow distances. Trying to make a 300 yard shot on 1x is tough.
 
Most good quality LPVOs right now, worked quite well in low light especially if you restrict the magnification to 4x or so when it gets dark. I tested the Gen 2 Razor in low light and it was quite good as was Meopta R2. I have not tested P4Xi in low light, but plan to at some point. Inexpensive RT-6 was quite respectable as well as was Hawke Frontier. More expensive scopes were generally better in low light, but that should be no surprise.

I use Burris XTR II 1-8x24 and I mostly use it at four magnifications:

1x for speed
3x for offhand slow shooting
4x-5x in low light from a stable position
8x in good light from a stable postion

Since the reticle is in FFP, I just set the magnification for whatever looks appropriate for the conditions and all my reticle-based holds work fine. THen when I am done shooting a I look at the magnification setting and it is usually one of the settings I listed above.

ILya
 
Thanks for the input. I'll have to get to work on it.
 
Just in case you don't know, exit pupil = objective lens diameter/magnification setting. As is universal in optics, all linear measurements in millimeters.

One other thing to think about, you need to consider the typical diameter of the human pupil during what you consider low light. Any scope's exit pupil larger than that is not needed as the eye will not accept any more light than what its pupil will allow.
 
I get the whole exit pupil thing. I know it's a metric people always refer to when talking about low light. But it's just a baseline. Nothing more. Coatings, color, and resolution play a lot into lowlight visibility. That's why I asked about different units and how they are overall. Just because something has a descent exit pupil at x magnification that in itself doesn't mean it will be great in lowlight.
 
I have similar criteria when selecting optics for any of my rifles, since at some point or another they will usually each be a travel companion into the woods, on a buggy, or in a ground blind. I was able to look through several LVPOs side by side by side during low light and dark to get a feel for which ones might have an edge. I was fortunate at the time to have quite a few different optics to look through. I have since culled down my collection to just a few scopes based mostly off of my subjective cost/weight to performance impression.

The short answer for my recommendation would be to get either the Kahles k16i or Swarovski Z6i. In my eyes they were both very noticeably ahead of the other 1-6/8s that I looked through at the time and pretty close to a larger objective scope.

The long answer is that I did a side by side in low light and after dark with a few scopes to see what I could put on a Grendel “pistol” to hunt with. I had multiple optics to look through at the time and was able to sit down and look through each during the same time. I looked through a Kahles k16i, Steiner p4xi, bushnell 1-6.5 smrs, Burris 1-8, vortex Razor 1-6, Trijicon 1-8, swaro Z6i, Leupold Mk6 1-6, bushnell Elite 3-12x44, Swarovski z3 4-12x40, Kahles 312i 3-12x50 and a Leupold vx1 3-9x40. I kept everything on 6x For the LVPOs (except the Steiner) to keep the comparisons the same.

Most of the 1-6/8s were very close. The bushnell, Leupold Mk6, Burris, and Trijicon were all very close to each other. I thought the slightly larger objective of the Trijicon would help, but it did not. The Razor was a little ahead of this group, but it was also heavier than the other 1-6s and I wasn’t a fan of how hard the mag ring is to turn. The Kahles k16i and Swarovski were better than all scopes above by a wide margin and very close to the Leupold vx1 3-9x40 (comparing low light transmission only). They were extremely impressive. It’s also worth noting that the Steiner p4xi was also very clear and bright. I was extremely impressed with the little 1-4, but the ballistic drop reticle wouldn’t work the way I wanted with the Grendel.

As you would guess, the bigger objective scopes fell in line by cost. The Leupold VX1 3-9 is good in low light. The bushnell Elite 3-12x44 was a little better (I also really liked the BTR mil reticle for hunting). Looking through both the Kahles 312i and the Swarovski z3 made things seem brighter than looking at them with my naked eye.

Due to some other projects I had going on at the time, I kept the bushnell 1-6.5 for my Grendel. It wasn’t the lightest of the bunch, nor did it have the best reticle or illumination. It is however, probably one of my favorite value LVPOs out. The reticle is designed in a way that doesn’t make its crappy illumination too much of a downside. It has good clarity and light transmission and a decently flat 1x. Whatever coating that their marketing team dubbed “rainguard” works extremely well at keeping it fog free (as seen during several cold weather hunts). The 3 I’ve owned have stood up to quite a bit of abuse. However, it is still a scope of compromises. If cost wasn’t a concern I would still have either the Z6i or the k16i. If the Burris had a mil reticle, I would probably still have it as well since I liked its turrets/illumination.
 
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I have similar criteria when selecting optics for any of my rifles, since at some point or another they will usually each be a travel companion into the woods, on a buggy, or in a ground blind. I was able to look through several LVPOs side by side by side during low light and dark to get a feel for which ones might have an edge. I was fortunate at the time to have quite a few different optics to look through. I have since culled down my collection to just a few scopes based mostly off of my subjective cost/weight to performance impression.

The short answer for my recommendation would be to get either the Kahles k16i or Swarovski Z6i. In my eyes they were both very noticeably ahead of the other 1-6/8s that I looked through at the time and pretty close to a larger objective scope.

The long answer is that I did a side by side in low light and after dark with a few scopes to see what I could put on a Grendel “pistol” to hunt with. I had multiple optics to look through at the time and was able to sit down and look through each during the same time. I looked through a Kahles k16i, Steiner p4xi, bushnell 1-6.5 smrs, Burris 1-8, vortex Razor 1-6, Trijicon 1-8, swaro Z6i, Leupold Mk6 1-6, bushnell Elite 3-12x44, Swarovski z3 4-12x40, Kahles 312i 3-12x50 and a Leupold vx1 3-9x40. I kept everything on 6x For the LVPOs (except the Steiner) to keep the comparisons the same.

Most of the 1-6/8s were very close. The bushnell, Leupold Mk6, Burris, and Trijicon were all very close to each other. I thought the slightly larger objective of the Trijicon would help, but it did not. The Razor was a little ahead of this group, but it was also heavier than the other 1-6s and I wasn’t a fan of how hard the mag ring is to turn. The Kahles k16i and Swarovski were better than all scopes above by a wide margin and very close to the Leupold vx1 3-9x40 (comparing low light transmission only). They were extremely impressive. It’s also worth noting that the Steiner p4xi was also very clear and bright. I was extremely impressed with the little 1-4, but the ballistic drop reticle wouldn’t work the way I wanted with the Grendel.

As you would guess, the bigger objective scopes fell in line by cost. The Leupold VX1 3-9 is good in low light. The bushnell Elite 3-12x44 was a little better (I also really liked the BTR mil reticle for hunting). Looking through both the Kahles 312i and the Swarovski z3 made things seem brighter than looking at them with my naked eye.

Due to some other projects I had going on at the time, I kept the bushnell 1-6.5 for my Grendel. It wasn’t the lightest of the bunch, nor did it have the best reticle or illumination. It is however, probably one of my favorite value LVPOs out. The reticle is designed in a way that doesn’t make its crappy illumination too much of a downside. It has good clarity and light transmission and a decently flat 1x. Whatever coating that their marketing team dubbed “rainguard” works extremely well at keeping it fog free (as seen during several cold weather hunts). The 3 I’ve owned have stood up to quite a bit of abuse. However, it is still a scope of compromises. If cost wasn’t a concern I would still have either the Z6i or the k16i. If the Burris had a mil reticle, I would probably still have it as well since I liked its turrets/illumination.

Which SMRS version is that? Bushnell has made so many versions...capped vs uncapped turrets, BTR-1 vs BTR-2 reticle (and now QC BCD), FFP vs SFP. I have the ET1626 and love the SFP BTR-2 reticle.
 
I was wanting a scope for similar purposes and decided to go away from true 1x in order to get better low light performance. Picked up a Leica Magnus I 1.5-10x42 cant wait to see if it's as good as what I've heard!
 
Which SMRS version is that? Bushnell has made so many versions...capped vs uncapped turrets, BTR-1 vs BTR-2 reticle (and now QC BCD), FFP vs SFP. I have the ET1626 and love the SFP BTR-2 reticle.
I have the capped version with the SFP BTR2 reticle.