Lyman expander die question on a Dillon 650

[TheGerman]

For 223 Rem, I have a prep toolhead set up that has the Lee Universal Decapper on it as well as the Dillon trimmer with the Dillon full length sizer trim die. For those not familiar with it, its simply a FL sizing die that screws into the trimmer.

On my loading toolhead, I currently have:

1 - Redding neck sizing only die
2- Powder
3- Mr Bullet Feeder
4 - Seater
5 - Crimp

Everything is set up fine but I've been running into 2 constant problems mostly surrounding the Redding neck sizing die. For some odd reason, all of the cases go into all of the dies 100% of the time with no issue except at Station 1 where the case basically rams into the bottom of the die half the time denting the crap out of the neck. Secondly, between the die hitting as well as rifle cases not having a bell on them like pistol cases while loading, the bullets dropped from the Mr Bulletfeeder also fall off the case 50% of the time. Basically I need to get rid of the Redding die but I don't fully understand what I've read online as to what people replace it with.

All suggestions with these 2 problems tell me to go get a Lyman 'M' die which is an expander die. Can I simply swap this out for the Redding? I'm confused because I was using the Redding to neck size only as the Dillon FL size die doesn't do anything with neck tension; will an expander do the same thing as the neck sizer, just in the inverse way? Or do I need something else? Can I simply switch the Lyman for the Redding?

 

[poptart4YALL]

Your first problem with the cases hitting the bottom of the die is likely caused by the case insert slide/slide cam not going far enough forward. If your not priming on the press you still need to press the handle forward to get that to slide to travel fully. Or you may need to adjust the camming pin to insure you're getting proper travel.

For the case flare you might be able to call Dillon or Double Alpha and is if there's a .22cal powder funnel that will flare the brass for you. Then, your brass would get flared during powder drop. I know double alpha makes custom powder funnels for pistols calibers for use with there bullet feeder. But either way I'd call Double Alpha, they've probably seen this problem before.

-Poptart

 

[padom]

This is a known result of the shell plate that the cases slide into isn't tightened down enough meaning it's tilted when operating so the station 1 brass doesn't go straight up into your die. Easily fixable by tightening the center shell holder bolt down until it's too tight then just barely backing it off to where the shell holder spins.

or just get a 21st Century TiN expander mandrel and you won't have this issue. That's what I use for .002 neck tension

 

[FishDr]

You have been given excellent advise above. Check for a loose shell plate, don't forget to tighten the set screw under the platform on the ram to ensure it doesn't loosten up. Also, make sure the cam pin is backed out far enough that the case fully inserts when you push forward on the handle on the down-stroke. That will eliminate much of the "rough stop" of operation.

I'm wondering if your 2nd issue is also related. Perhaps you are using flat based bullets or FMJ, and the rough stop of failed case insertion in station 1 is what causes them to drop off the case mouth?? If you use a boat tail bullet, or a FMJ with a slightly larger taper on the back (I like hornady's 55 gn), I think both issues may smooth out.

Another adjustment to look for is the "hard stop" when the shell plate indexes. If the plate is crashing to a stop at the next station, could this be causing the bullet to drop from case mouth? You would notice this condition if loading 9mm and observing a bit of powder spillage on a full case when the index "stops". This can be smoothed out by adjusting the cam stop under the platform. It's kinda fiddley, but will smooth out with some trial and error.

Sorry for writing a book. Before replacing dies and additional expense, you might be able to overcome these issues with some careful adjustment and operation.

 

[TheGerman]

This is a known result of the shell plate that the cases slide into isn't tightened down enough meaning it's tilted when operating so the station 1 brass doesn't go straight up into your die. Easily fixable by tightening the center shell holder bolt down until it's too tight then just barely backing it off to where the shell holder spins.

or just get a 21st Century TiN expander mandrel and you won't have this issue. That's what I use for .002 neck tension

The shellplate is very tight to where I can't rotate it any further or itll lock completely. I think its the cam timing thats off.

As far as the expander, do I simply trade out the expander for the neck die? Never used an expander before, but I am assuming it does the same thing as a neck die just from the inside of the case neck?

 

[padom]

Yes just trade it out as long as you used the sizing trim die which squeezed the neck down. Then the expander will set proper neck tension

 

[Creek4]

I sold my 650 because it was always something. Got tired of it and went back to my Lee classic turret.

 

[padom]

I've had zero issues with my 650, has ran problem free for 15-20 thousand rounds so far. Understanding how it works and setting it up properly is key to getting it to run properly.

 

[flyright]

All good advice - except swapping it for a Lee - lol - cam pin must allow full insertion of the case on the forward stroke. I ran into this when I recently went from a 550 to the 650. If it's shell plate hop that's dislodging your bullets; there are several ways to fix that. I'd definitely try them before belling the case mouth. Mine runs like butter now and no problems turning out 1/2 moa rounds progressively. I did polish my powder funnel and bar and get at worst +\- .2 gr drops with Varget, usually much better. I also found out a long time ago that if you don't have dies bottoming (or nearly so) on the shell plate on opposite sides at the same time (for support) you'll get some inconsistencies due to the shell plate rocking. Really only an issue if you're using it semi single stage. Finally, if you can neck size via bushing - fine. If you want to expand to size then make sure your expander just touches on its way out. This usually requires a much larger neck bushing. My .02...