Has anyone here duplicated the M118 Long Range that the military is using? I know they are using the Sierra 175 gn match bullet, but what are they using for brass, powder, and primer?
Re: M118 Long Range
Semper Fi, brass is Lake City lr,powder is win750,dont know on the special primers?this info came from a book i read.Military and Police Sniper by Mike Lau.
Semper Fi, brass is Lake City lr,powder is win750,dont know on the special primers?this info came from a book i read.Military and Police Sniper by Mike Lau.
Re: M118 Long Range
Brass LC Reloader 15 43.3 SMK 175 2690 FPS if you go to Reloading section and look at the top entry it says RELOADING DEPOT is were 308 loads have be consolidated
Brass LC Reloader 15 43.3 SMK 175 2690 FPS if you go to Reloading section and look at the top entry it says RELOADING DEPOT is were 308 loads have be consolidated
Re: M118 Long Range
That's '97 info ( Lau's book)..........................M118LR originally was BALL POWDER, and damned accurate........
The Army wanted it SLOWED down, so it woould track the MK4M3 Optic, so it was downloaded to 2600fps.
That's '97 info ( Lau's book)..........................M118LR originally was BALL POWDER, and damned accurate........
The Army wanted it SLOWED down, so it woould track the MK4M3 Optic, so it was downloaded to 2600fps.
Re: M118 Long Range
M852 is 168SMK HPBT
M118 is 173 "special ball" FMJBT
M118LR is 175SMK HPBT
The real thing is with LC LR/Match brass.
For M118LR, you can dupe that with 42.8 - 43.2 gr of RL15 or Varget.
Pretty standard long range load.
M852 is 168SMK HPBT
M118 is 173 "special ball" FMJBT
M118LR is 175SMK HPBT
The real thing is with LC LR/Match brass.
For M118LR, you can dupe that with 42.8 - 43.2 gr of RL15 or Varget.
Pretty standard long range load.
Re: M118 Long Range
I use RL15 which is in M118lr @ 43.1 gr 2.80 oal LC Brass 2599 avg FPS 175 SMK
5R barrel
11.27 twist 24 inch
http://www.dtic.mil/dticasd/sbir/sbir032/a044a.pdf
good read on Military loads
I use RL15 which is in M118lr @ 43.1 gr 2.80 oal LC Brass 2599 avg FPS 175 SMK
5R barrel
11.27 twist 24 inch
http://www.dtic.mil/dticasd/sbir/sbir032/a044a.pdf
good read on Military loads
Re: M118 Long Range
Do you have a newer version of that technical manual?
M118LR 175gr HPBT 7.62NATO and M262(Mk262) 77gr OTM 5.56NATO are not listed.
Do you have a newer version of that technical manual?
M118LR 175gr HPBT 7.62NATO and M262(Mk262) 77gr OTM 5.56NATO are not listed.
Re: M118 Long Range
In the spirit of having these loads in one place, I'm looking for the older M118 173 grain & ss109 62 grain recipes.... Thanks!
In the spirit of having these loads in one place, I'm looking for the older M118 173 grain & ss109 62 grain recipes.... Thanks!
Re: M118 Long Range
FWIW, I chronographed actual '07 M118LR (don't ask how I obtained it) out of my 26" FN SPR, and it clocks at 2718fps. While W750 was used initially when Olin ran Lake City, since ATK took over (about the year 2000), they have used RL15.
Don
FWIW, I chronographed actual '07 M118LR (don't ask how I obtained it) out of my 26" FN SPR, and it clocks at 2718fps. While W750 was used initially when Olin ran Lake City, since ATK took over (about the year 2000), they have used RL15.
Don
Re: M118 Long Range
Out of my M40A3 I use LC LR brass RL 15 42.2 grns with a 175 and I get 2700-2715 FPS. WLR primer.
Out of my M40A3 I use LC LR brass RL 15 42.2 grns with a 175 and I get 2700-2715 FPS. WLR primer.
Re: M118 Long Range
Very Unusual Don, since that would not track any dial they use.
I had some '98, that was Ball, and it smoked also, and was one holer.
Read an article where the Guy's were complaining about it not tracking, and wanted it slowed up.
And, if memory serves, it was corroborated here by active Mil............
Of course your SPR is a Gen 1, and has a CL tube................THE GOOD one.
Very Unusual Don, since that would not track any dial they use.
I had some '98, that was Ball, and it smoked also, and was one holer.
Read an article where the Guy's were complaining about it not tracking, and wanted it slowed up.
And, if memory serves, it was corroborated here by active Mil............
Of course your SPR is a Gen 1, and has a CL tube................THE GOOD one.
Re: M118 Long Range
All my 308's are mil spec and one built by RTE. The load I described above is what they use in M118LR as of now. I am not a reloading expert by any means and I am sure different barrels as well different twist ect can change speeds. I shoot under half moa with 3 and five shot groups out to 300 yards far as my range goes with any of my rifles with that load ..
Jim
All my 308's are mil spec and one built by RTE. The load I described above is what they use in M118LR as of now. I am not a reloading expert by any means and I am sure different barrels as well different twist ect can change speeds. I shoot under half moa with 3 and five shot groups out to 300 yards far as my range goes with any of my rifles with that load ..
Jim
Re: M118 Long Range
Somewhere in my reloading excel.... (i didn't have the reference)
Cartridge Bul Wt (gr) Vel (fps) Suggested Load
M193 5.56 mm 55 3250±40 26 grs. of H335
M855 5.56 mm 62 3020±40 27 grs of 748 or BallC2
M80 7.62 mm 149 2750±20 42.5 IMR4895, 46 grs. 748 or Ball C2
M118 7.62 mm Special Ball 173 2550±30 43 grs. of RL15 or 748
M118 7.62 mm Special Ball LR (Sierra MK bullet) 175 2580±30 42.5 grs. of Varget
M852 7.62 mm MATCH (Sierra MK bullet) 168 2550±30 41.5grs of IMR4895
Somewhere in my reloading excel.... (i didn't have the reference)
Cartridge Bul Wt (gr) Vel (fps) Suggested Load
M193 5.56 mm 55 3250±40 26 grs. of H335
M855 5.56 mm 62 3020±40 27 grs of 748 or BallC2
M80 7.62 mm 149 2750±20 42.5 IMR4895, 46 grs. 748 or Ball C2
M118 7.62 mm Special Ball 173 2550±30 43 grs. of RL15 or 748
M118 7.62 mm Special Ball LR (Sierra MK bullet) 175 2580±30 42.5 grs. of Varget
M852 7.62 mm MATCH (Sierra MK bullet) 168 2550±30 41.5grs of IMR4895
Re: M118 Long Range
For my M118LR loads I use LC LR brass, 175 SMK and 42.8gr of RL-15. It tracks great with my MST-100.
My m118 173 load I got from the May 1966 issue of the American Rifleman. They have all the specs listed. LC Match brass, 174.3gr bullet and 42.1grs of IMR 4895
For my M118LR loads I use LC LR brass, 175 SMK and 42.8gr of RL-15. It tracks great with my MST-100.
My m118 173 load I got from the May 1966 issue of the American Rifleman. They have all the specs listed. LC Match brass, 174.3gr bullet and 42.1grs of IMR 4895
Re: M118 Long Range
This is interesting
To: [email protected]
Subject: Reloader 15 and 7.62 MM, Ball Special, M118: Long Range
X-Attachments: D:\Documents\GunStuff\TM 43-0001-27 7_62 NATO[M118LR].pdf;
According to your information about Reloader 15 (which I have used for years in several rifles) it is the powder that was "Selected as the powder for U.S. Military's M118 special ball long range sniper round."
Looking at the Army Ammunition Data Sheets (TM 43-0001-27) it lists the propellent as "WC 750". Is this Reloader 15? I would like to safely duplicate this load and would appreciate any information or load data that you can provide.
I am attaching the data sheet for your convenience. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. Should you have any questions or require additional information, please advise.
And their response:
"I am not sure what the military calls our RL 15, but I have been told in the past that 44 grs was the charge. We do not give this information out because that charge exceeds the amount recommended in the Sierra manual with their 175 gr bullet and RL 15. According to Sierra they start with 35.8 grs @ 2200 fps and the max is 41.3 grs @ 2600 fps. I recommend that you use the Sierra data. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and let me know if you have any additional questions. Have a nice day."
This is interesting
To: [email protected]
Subject: Reloader 15 and 7.62 MM, Ball Special, M118: Long Range
X-Attachments: D:\Documents\GunStuff\TM 43-0001-27 7_62 NATO[M118LR].pdf;
According to your information about Reloader 15 (which I have used for years in several rifles) it is the powder that was "Selected as the powder for U.S. Military's M118 special ball long range sniper round."
Looking at the Army Ammunition Data Sheets (TM 43-0001-27) it lists the propellent as "WC 750". Is this Reloader 15? I would like to safely duplicate this load and would appreciate any information or load data that you can provide.
I am attaching the data sheet for your convenience. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. Should you have any questions or require additional information, please advise.
And their response:
"I am not sure what the military calls our RL 15, but I have been told in the past that 44 grs was the charge. We do not give this information out because that charge exceeds the amount recommended in the Sierra manual with their 175 gr bullet and RL 15. According to Sierra they start with 35.8 grs @ 2200 fps and the max is 41.3 grs @ 2600 fps. I recommend that you use the Sierra data. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and let me know if you have any additional questions. Have a nice day."
Re: M118 Long Range
I have always found Sierra's maximum charges to be extremely conservative with loads I was familiar with. In fact, I don't think I ever worked up a load - without excessive pressure signs - which wasn't more than their maximum load.
I suspect that's attributable to the influence of attorneys and our litigious society.
I have always found Sierra's maximum charges to be extremely conservative with loads I was familiar with. In fact, I don't think I ever worked up a load - without excessive pressure signs - which wasn't more than their maximum load.
I suspect that's attributable to the influence of attorneys and our litigious society.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tuna921</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looking at the Army Ammunition Data Sheets (TM 43-0001-27) it lists the propellent as "WC 750". Is this Reloader 15?</div></div>
Nope, WC750 is Winchester ball powder. That Army data sheet is from when M118LR was first developed and Olin (Winchester) ran Lake City. ATK (Alliant) has run it since atleast 2000, and uses Alliant RL15 which is an extruded powder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always found Sierra's maximum charges to be extremely conservative with loads I was familiar with.</div></div>
Yep! You'll never have to worry about high pressure using Sierra's load data.
Don
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tuna921</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looking at the Army Ammunition Data Sheets (TM 43-0001-27) it lists the propellent as "WC 750". Is this Reloader 15?</div></div>
Nope, WC750 is Winchester ball powder. That Army data sheet is from when M118LR was first developed and Olin (Winchester) ran Lake City. ATK (Alliant) has run it since atleast 2000, and uses Alliant RL15 which is an extruded powder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always found Sierra's maximum charges to be extremely conservative with loads I was familiar with.</div></div>
Yep! You'll never have to worry about high pressure using Sierra's load data.
Don
Re: M118 Long Range
WHen I pulled down some of my 118LR to duplicate the load, I got 42.6grs of Re15 and its what I use now to load up my "copy"
John
WHen I pulled down some of my 118LR to duplicate the load, I got 42.6grs of Re15 and its what I use now to load up my "copy"
John
Re: M118 Long Range
I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am trying to do the same thing you are and copy the M118LR load. However, I cannot find RL 15 anywhere or Varget for that matter. Anybody know where powder can be found these days? All I have is H4350.
I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am trying to do the same thing you are and copy the M118LR load. However, I cannot find RL 15 anywhere or Varget for that matter. Anybody know where powder can be found these days? All I have is H4350.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shawn b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of my M40A3 I use LC LR brass RL 15 42.2 grns with a 175 and I get 2700-2715 FPS. WLR primer. </div></div>
shawn b what kind of groups are you getting with that load and who built your M40a3? I have an M40a3 too, wanted to compare and see what you were getting at 100.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shawn b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of my M40A3 I use LC LR brass RL 15 42.2 grns with a 175 and I get 2700-2715 FPS. WLR primer. </div></div>
shawn b what kind of groups are you getting with that load and who built your M40a3? I have an M40a3 too, wanted to compare and see what you were getting at 100.
Re: M118 Long Range
I downloaded the original spec for the M118LR just after Alliant got the contract to supply RL15 for that load.
The first fracus in Iraq caused the operating rods on the M14's to bent/break. This load was downloaded to
175gr Sierra MatchKing
43.1gr/RL15
LC brass
A mil spec primer.
I have duped the original load and it turned in a velocity of 2699fps from my PGWDTI Coyote. That was in May.
August the same batch chrono'd at 2755fps, thus proving that RL15 is temperature sensitive.
The 43.1gr load hasn't been chrono'd as of yet - been too damn cold and after a month of nice weather, Monday we got a 5" dump of snow.
I downloaded the original spec for the M118LR just after Alliant got the contract to supply RL15 for that load.
The first fracus in Iraq caused the operating rods on the M14's to bent/break. This load was downloaded to
175gr Sierra MatchKing
43.1gr/RL15
LC brass
A mil spec primer.
I have duped the original load and it turned in a velocity of 2699fps from my PGWDTI Coyote. That was in May.
August the same batch chrono'd at 2755fps, thus proving that RL15 is temperature sensitive.
The 43.1gr load hasn't been chrono'd as of yet - been too damn cold and after a month of nice weather, Monday we got a 5" dump of snow.
Re: M118 Long Range
GAP Built, shoots under .5 but the Gen II reticle is a little to thick for me to try and shoot small groups. Does great at a distance. A buddy shot this out of his A1 and it does great out of mine. The Schnieder barrel seems to run about 50-75fps faster than other like barrels I have had. I would start at 41.7 and work up from there to around 2715fps.
GAP Built, shoots under .5 but the Gen II reticle is a little to thick for me to try and shoot small groups. Does great at a distance. A buddy shot this out of his A1 and it does great out of mine. The Schnieder barrel seems to run about 50-75fps faster than other like barrels I have had. I would start at 41.7 and work up from there to around 2715fps.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...shoots under .5 but the Gen II reticle is a little to thick for me to try and shoot small groups.</div></div>
Interesting observation, which I'm afraid is contradicted by the fact that I've shot 0.4 and 0.5 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards using a scope with a Gen II reticle - in 20 seconds. And I wasn't even trying to shoot small groups - only to hit the target, which was a one inch dot.
I'm afraid that the myth that only reticles of certain thickness can be used to shoot small groups is propogated by the ignorant and the unskilled.
In point of fact, if you had a reticle which was thick enough to completely obscure the target, all you would have to do is to use the point where one edge of the horizontal crosshair intersected an edge of the vertical crosshair, and place it on the edge of the target.
Reticle thickness is not an issue if one is willing to think about what one is doing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...shoots under .5 but the Gen II reticle is a little to thick for me to try and shoot small groups.</div></div>
Interesting observation, which I'm afraid is contradicted by the fact that I've shot 0.4 and 0.5 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards using a scope with a Gen II reticle - in 20 seconds. And I wasn't even trying to shoot small groups - only to hit the target, which was a one inch dot.
I'm afraid that the myth that only reticles of certain thickness can be used to shoot small groups is propogated by the ignorant and the unskilled.
In point of fact, if you had a reticle which was thick enough to completely obscure the target, all you would have to do is to use the point where one edge of the horizontal crosshair intersected an edge of the vertical crosshair, and place it on the edge of the target.
Reticle thickness is not an issue if one is willing to think about what one is doing.
Re: M118 Long Range
I shoot under .5 with the GEN II now that's not a problem, just not my prefered scope for shooting groups.
I shoot under .5 with the GEN II now that's not a problem, just not my prefered scope for shooting groups.
Re: M118 Long Range
"The first fracus in Iraq caused the operating rods on the M14's to bent/break."
Once again, incorrect. The Marines wanted the round to jibe with the Ballistic Drop Compensator engravings on the Unertl scope. The download was from approximately 2680 fps back down to a nominal 2550.
It was always meant to take the M40, M24, and M14 to 1,000 yards with the M14's 22-inch barrel, which it did admirably.
"The first fracus in Iraq caused the operating rods on the M14's to bent/break."
Once again, incorrect. The Marines wanted the round to jibe with the Ballistic Drop Compensator engravings on the Unertl scope. The download was from approximately 2680 fps back down to a nominal 2550.
It was always meant to take the M40, M24, and M14 to 1,000 yards with the M14's 22-inch barrel, which it did admirably.
Re: M118 Long Range
So what was the original spec before in was downloaded to match the BDC?
I've heard nothing but great things regarding that load and have yet to find reliable data on it.
So what was the original spec before in was downloaded to match the BDC?
I've heard nothing but great things regarding that load and have yet to find reliable data on it.
Re: M118 Long Range
Several sources have reported that WC750 canister was most closely duplicated by W748.
My load uses Rem brass, 42.2gr of IMR-4064, Fed 210M match primers, and the 175SMK loaded to 2.815-2.820" for mag feeding in the M14/M1A. This load was specifically developed to be reliably supersonic out of the M14/M1A at 1000yd, and is copied straight out of an article from the 1990's in <span style="font-style: italic">Precision Shooting</span>.
Greg
Several sources have reported that WC750 canister was most closely duplicated by W748.
My load uses Rem brass, 42.2gr of IMR-4064, Fed 210M match primers, and the 175SMK loaded to 2.815-2.820" for mag feeding in the M14/M1A. This load was specifically developed to be reliably supersonic out of the M14/M1A at 1000yd, and is copied straight out of an article from the 1990's in <span style="font-style: italic">Precision Shooting</span>.
Greg
Re: M118 Long Range
With 2004 Head Stamped loadings of M118-LR, I get an average velocity of 2700fps at sea level.
That is using a 24" FN SPR A5-M with a chrome lined barrel.
Just curious to see how much faster the older ones would be.
With 2004 Head Stamped loadings of M118-LR, I get an average velocity of 2700fps at sea level.
That is using a 24" FN SPR A5-M with a chrome lined barrel.
Just curious to see how much faster the older ones would be.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
When you guys talk about a mil spec primer, Im seeing that a lot of guys on here are using the FMMG 210 primers. Is this the closest primer that will match the primer that is used in the M118LR? </div></div>
When I see that reference, CCI #34 is usually what's being referred to...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
When you guys talk about a mil spec primer, Im seeing that a lot of guys on here are using the FMMG 210 primers. Is this the closest primer that will match the primer that is used in the M118LR? </div></div>
When I see that reference, CCI #34 is usually what's being referred to...
Re: M118 Long Range
I don't use milspec primers, but they would be equated closely to CCI #34's. Unless you are doing lots and lots of NRA National Match Highpower, I suspect you'd do better with the FGMM's regarding accuracy, and take care to ensure they are seated flush or slightly below flush.
I don't use milspec primers, but they would be equated closely to CCI #34's. Unless you are doing lots and lots of NRA National Match Highpower, I suspect you'd do better with the FGMM's regarding accuracy, and take care to ensure they are seated flush or slightly below flush.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't use milspec primers, but they would be equated closely to CCI #34's. Unless you are doing lots and lots of NRA National Match Highpower, I suspect you'd do better with the FGMM's regarding accuracy, and take care to ensure they are seated flush or slightly below flush. </div></div>
i have not seen anyone that has worked a m118lr clone load with m-34 primers and posted it unless i have missed it. anyone????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't use milspec primers, but they would be equated closely to CCI #34's. Unless you are doing lots and lots of NRA National Match Highpower, I suspect you'd do better with the FGMM's regarding accuracy, and take care to ensure they are seated flush or slightly below flush. </div></div>
i have not seen anyone that has worked a m118lr clone load with m-34 primers and posted it unless i have missed it. anyone????
Re: M118 Long Range
my other thought is that m118lr would need to have a thicker cup primer like m-34 or such for also being fired in the dmr/emr m-14 to protect against slam fires.
my other thought is that m118lr would need to have a thicker cup primer like m-34 or such for also being fired in the dmr/emr m-14 to protect against slam fires.
Re: M118 Long Range
I am gonna try out this load with the recipes for Reloader 15...now if I could only find Reloader 15.
I am gonna try out this load with the recipes for Reloader 15...now if I could only find Reloader 15.
Re: M118 Long Range
joonemtp,
I've heard that Powder Valley is still taking back orders if you call them up.
They way I understand it is that you get on a list and your order is filled whenever the powder arrives.
Powder Valley is a great company and I would trust them to take good care of you.
I recieved 10lbs from them in Feb.
joonemtp,
I've heard that Powder Valley is still taking back orders if you call them up.
They way I understand it is that you get on a list and your order is filled whenever the powder arrives.
Powder Valley is a great company and I would trust them to take good care of you.
I recieved 10lbs from them in Feb.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tuna921</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://www.dtic.mil/dticasd/sbir/sbir032/a044a.pdf </div></div>
Does anyone have a current link to this? It doesnt come up anymore.
Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tuna921</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://www.dtic.mil/dticasd/sbir/sbir032/a044a.pdf </div></div>
Does anyone have a current link to this? It doesnt come up anymore.
Thanks
Re: M118 Long Range
I have a copy of the military TM 43-0001-27 hanging on the bulletin board over my bench.I don't know what year it was originally printed,but it breaks down the M118 rd.The powders they list are W846 and IMR 4895.Since the wincehster powder is military only,I have always used IMR 4895,and have been quite happy with it's performance,plus it burns very clean.I also use the CCI mil-spec primers(34&41) for all of my gas guns and haven't had any problems.The mil-spec primers just have harder cups,or so I've been told.
I have a copy of the military TM 43-0001-27 hanging on the bulletin board over my bench.I don't know what year it was originally printed,but it breaks down the M118 rd.The powders they list are W846 and IMR 4895.Since the wincehster powder is military only,I have always used IMR 4895,and have been quite happy with it's performance,plus it burns very clean.I also use the CCI mil-spec primers(34&41) for all of my gas guns and haven't had any problems.The mil-spec primers just have harder cups,or so I've been told.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NCHillbilly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a copy of the military TM 43-0001-27 hanging on the bulletin board over my bench.I don't know what year it was originally printed,but it breaks down the M118 rd.The powders they list are W846 and IMR 4895.Since the wincehster powder is military only,I have always used IMR 4895,and have been quite happy with it's performance,plus it burns very clean.I also use the CCI mil-spec primers(34&41) for all of my gas guns and haven't had any problems.The mil-spec primers just have harder cups,or so I've been told. </div></div>
Mil-spec primers also use magnum primer compound or compound volume to ensure ignition of the powder charge, to include ball powders at extremely low temperatures.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NCHillbilly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a copy of the military TM 43-0001-27 hanging on the bulletin board over my bench.I don't know what year it was originally printed,but it breaks down the M118 rd.The powders they list are W846 and IMR 4895.Since the wincehster powder is military only,I have always used IMR 4895,and have been quite happy with it's performance,plus it burns very clean.I also use the CCI mil-spec primers(34&41) for all of my gas guns and haven't had any problems.The mil-spec primers just have harder cups,or so I've been told. </div></div>
Mil-spec primers also use magnum primer compound or compound volume to ensure ignition of the powder charge, to include ball powders at extremely low temperatures.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do have the load for the M118 rounds plus a few others. Does anyone have an electronic copy of the whole thing that I can get? I should of done that a long time ago.
Thanks </div></div>
TM 43-0001-27
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do have the load for the M118 rounds plus a few others. Does anyone have an electronic copy of the whole thing that I can get? I should of done that a long time ago.
Thanks </div></div>
TM 43-0001-27
Re: M118 Long Range
Couple of general observations here guys, which may help a bit. Lake City has used a variety of powders in the M118/M852/M118LR loadings, usually corelating directly to who had the current contract at the time. Most of those who bid are in some way, shape or form affiliated with their own powder works, and that's almost always what winds up in the ammo. When Remington had the contract way back when, M118 was loaded with IMR4895, DuPont at that time being a parent company to Remington. With the later switch to Winchester/Olin, the powder changed over to WC-750 . . . which Olin produced at St. Marks, FL. When ATK got the contract, they changed again, this time to RL-15, which ATK produces. Specs are otherwise the same in terms of performance, since the customer (US Military) dictates what <span style="text-decoration: underline">they</span> want.
As to the primer, they've long used used the M43, which is a military Large Rifle Match primer. It's made on site at Lake City, and has no true commercial equivalent on the open market. The M34 (#34) and M41/#41 primers that CCI puts out are the equivalents to the standard Large and Small rifle primers which Lake City produces for most of their standard ball, AP, tracer, whatever, military ammo. Not really a magnum primer per se, it's simply what they produce, and is pretty similar to what most commercial makers would bill as a "Magnum" primer to ensure performance in sub-zero arctic cold. I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the M43 has the same tougher cup that the M34 does. Aside from that, it's a milder primer intended to produce better accuracy, specifically for competitive matches, sniper use and other accuracy oriented chores.
Hope that helps.
Couple of general observations here guys, which may help a bit. Lake City has used a variety of powders in the M118/M852/M118LR loadings, usually corelating directly to who had the current contract at the time. Most of those who bid are in some way, shape or form affiliated with their own powder works, and that's almost always what winds up in the ammo. When Remington had the contract way back when, M118 was loaded with IMR4895, DuPont at that time being a parent company to Remington. With the later switch to Winchester/Olin, the powder changed over to WC-750 . . . which Olin produced at St. Marks, FL. When ATK got the contract, they changed again, this time to RL-15, which ATK produces. Specs are otherwise the same in terms of performance, since the customer (US Military) dictates what <span style="text-decoration: underline">they</span> want.
As to the primer, they've long used used the M43, which is a military Large Rifle Match primer. It's made on site at Lake City, and has no true commercial equivalent on the open market. The M34 (#34) and M41/#41 primers that CCI puts out are the equivalents to the standard Large and Small rifle primers which Lake City produces for most of their standard ball, AP, tracer, whatever, military ammo. Not really a magnum primer per se, it's simply what they produce, and is pretty similar to what most commercial makers would bill as a "Magnum" primer to ensure performance in sub-zero arctic cold. I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the M43 has the same tougher cup that the M34 does. Aside from that, it's a milder primer intended to produce better accuracy, specifically for competitive matches, sniper use and other accuracy oriented chores.
Hope that helps.
Re: M118 Long Range
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do have the load for the M118 rounds plus a few others. Does anyone have an electronic copy of the whole thing that I can get? I should of done that a long time ago.
Thanks </div></div>
TM 43-0001-27
</div></div>
Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do have the load for the M118 rounds plus a few others. Does anyone have an electronic copy of the whole thing that I can get? I should of done that a long time ago.
Thanks </div></div>
TM 43-0001-27
</div></div>
Thanks
