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Range Report m118LR deadringer

Dsparil

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 11, 2006
794
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42
Albrightsville, PA
is there an m118LR clone out there that is a deadringer for the original that the military uses in that it'd take hardly any adjustment at all to rezero if any? for m118LR the lake city is a bit expensive but I've seen rounds from us armorment and from Hunting Shack. any input?


thanks
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Switch - 45.0 gr with the 175 and BHA/Win brass will get you 2685.

I clocked my loads EXACTLYI where M118LR is.


Don't forget to use Fed GM210M primers - you can get them anywhere LOL....
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

The current load is

175gr Sierra MK
43.1gr/RL15

I use the Federal 210M primer and Norma brass.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Mine is very close, 43gr RL-15 and 175gr Sierra. Tracks perfectly with my MST-100 knob.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Switch - 45.0 gr with the 175 and BHA/Win brass will get you 2685.

I clocked my loads EXACTLYI where M118LR is.


Don't forget to use Fed GM210M primers - you can get them anywhere LOL.... </div></div>

45 out of my win brass is moving 2694 out of my GAP/AI, and 2672 out of the PSS. M118LR is just a tad slower, with a wider ES, but shoots real good from the GAP/AI
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

From Tech Manual, Army Ammunition Data Sheets (numbers withheld)

7.62 Special Ball M118
COAL 2.830"
Powder WC846 or IMR4895 @44grns
Bullet 172grns
Case and primer unspecified (but l'll take a lash at LC brass)
Velocity predicted @ 2640f/ps
Pressure " @ 50,000psi
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratwhiskers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From Tech Manual, Army Ammunition Data Sheets (numbers withheld)

7.62 Special Ball M118
COAL 2.830"
Powder WC846 or IMR4895 @44grns
Bullet 172grns
Case and primer unspecified (but l'll take a lash at LC brass)
Velocity predicted @ 2640f/ps
Pressure " @ 50,000psi </div></div>

They are talking about the newer M118LR not the old round you described. Totally different.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

The M118LR sublot B chronoed at 2690 in my RTE built M40a1.

Loaded ammo on the range, duplicated the velocity with 42.8 grains of IMR 4895, new Lapua brass, Federal 210Ms, and 2.815 COL.

Oehler 43P at 10 ft from muzzle, K4500 read 102 F temperature, 39 % humidity, GPS read 420 ft.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

what kind of accuracy does the american ballistics m118LR get out of 5r barrels? anyone try running this stuff out of an m24?
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Velocity is not the only goal. Unless the bore transit time is comparable, the velocity might occur with a transit timing that is a mismatch to the barrel's harmonics.

Propellant burn rates are critical to attaining a true match. The military loadings use, IMHO, propellants that are at the faster end of the desirable burn rate band. You are more likely to find a true match using propellants like IMR4895, W748, and R(E?, L?)-15.

My understanding is that the current 175 is the SMK.

Greg
 
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Re: m118LR deadringer

The original loading of the M118 was 44gr of WC846 (occasionally W748 is recommended as closely similar) or 42gr of IMR4895 with the LC 173-175.5gr FMJBT.

The initial M118LR was the same loading with the 175SMK substituted.

The USMC had issues with lot-to-lot consistency of IMR4895, the manufacturer refused to address the issues, and Reloader 15 was pressed into service. I am not privy to the published M118LR data on the Reloader powder.

The loadings are published loadings which are, in fact, simply estimates, or plausible fictions. The arsenals do not load to a recipe, they load to a velocity. They test with the current lot of canister powder, establish a loading which achieves the targeted velocity, and this becomes the recipe for that particular lot.

IMHO, the published WC846 and IMR4198 loadings are hotter than is wise, especially in military brass, and in fact exceed published Sierra max loads, even in commercial casings. Further, the original loads had temp sensitivity issues, and this may or may not have been properly addressed in later loadings.

IMHO, while it may be desirable to duplicate a given load for purposes of matching zeros, the task is not as simple and straight forward as it may appear on the surface; and such a goal may have limited benefit when contrasted against specific load develpment for the specific rifle.

The latter strategy nearly always yields better performance.

Greg
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BHP9,

What was the original loading of the M118-LR?
I've seen you talk about it in the past but haven't seen the charge weight listed.

Was it was 44 grains of Reloader - 15? </div></div>

No. When the M118LR was developed (1998 was the first year of production), Olin (Winchester) ran Lake City. The original powder was W750 (don't know the charge weight). When ATK took over Lake City in 2000, the switch was made to Reloader 15.

Don
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Don;

I didn't know that. Thank you for the correction.

My primary info source predates 1998, and does not refer to the -LR variant. Anecdotal info suggested the straight substitution of the 175SMK with the IMR4895/WC846 load, but I no longer have these sources at hand. I defer, your data is more current (and probably more reliable) than mine.

Greg
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

22" M-24 CLONE
SMK 175
210M
2.800 OAL
LC 07 BRASS
VARVET 42.5 = 2637 AVE.
43.0 = 2662 AVE.
43.5 = 2718 AVE.
87.4 DEG.
78.0 HUM.
1364 ALT.
Hope this helps someone!
sorry 10 shoot groups 15ft from chrony F1 (no can)
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emilio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine is very close, 43gr RL-15 and 175gr Sierra. Tracks perfectly with my MST-100 knob. </div></div>

Agreed with Winchester cases and Fed210M gives me great results with 24 inch 1/11.25 Rock barrel in my GAP TIS @2.800 coal
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

dsparil,
at risk of setting off a argument(seem to be good at it lately) id submit that m118lr can be pretty well duplicated using 42.5 grains of imr4064 in my testings using the same lake city brass and br2 primers. im sure this aint the only way to skin the cat but the only one i worked up.
this is actually a copy of an answer i did to a prior thread of the same type question but still valid.i worked this up during the ammo shortage of 2009 because most other powders were scarce but i stand by it as being pretty temp stable and seems too dupe m118lr out of a 26" bore around 2715fps. my other load wound up being real close to the same as fgmm which runs a bit slower. its 41.5 grains of imr4064 in privi cases with the br2 primer for 2600 fps. hope this helps someone.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Reloader 15 is what is loaded in M118LR rounds. 43.0 grains.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Deparil
A couple of questions? Are you currently shooting M118LR? If so then the simple solution is for you to chrono the M118LR out of your rifle, then load the used brass with Re15 at 43.0grs with +/- .5grs loadings and chrono each and see which one is closest to what your rifle shot? Problem fixed!!

If you are not shooting LR then why do you ask? M118LR is not the end all be all for accurate ammo, there are plenty of others that are readily available and shoot alot better than the military stuff currently produced.

Consistency is key!! Find something that works and stick to it! Good luck!
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

I'm amazed by my new Rock River LAR A4. It has a standard 20" barrel with there free floated tactical handguard. I'm getting .70" groups 100yds with:

175gr SMK
44.5 gr RL-15(Yes and NO SIGNS of pressure)
FED 210M
LC07 LR brass

This gun loves heavier loads it's shooting .40-.55" with:
168gr SMK
45gr RL-15 (again no pressure)
FED 210M
LC07 LR brass
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Switch - I stand corrected but the stuff you sent me (02 stamp I think) ran 2690-2710, so that's why I loaded DOWN to the 45.0 gr Varget...

So for my rifle there is no scope adjustment, run one M118LR or one handload, they shoot within 1/4" of eachother...

I was shooting the 45.5 with the longer AOl when we shot down at Ft Lewis, prior to 9/11 and the closing of the range to civilians...
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Just got done testing a new batch of LC M118-LR out of my M-24 clone 22" 1:10.25 (shoot a lot of subs) LC-08J272-230 SUBLOT A
1.2767
2.2804
3.2837
4.2821
5.2815
6.2813
7.2828
8.2835
9.2842
10.2815 AVE:2816.7
ALT:1366
TEMP:113.1
HUM:75.0
15FT FROM F1-MASTER (NO CAN) Grouped .63in @100yrd
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

Got this from my buddy a few days ago...thought you guys might want to see it

118lrloadmk316.jpg
 
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Re: m118LR deadringer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oldsmobiler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got this from my buddy a few days ago...thought you guys might want to see it

118lrloadmk316.jpg
</div></div>

NICE!!!
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

The data sheet is for Mark 316.

M118LR is made at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for the Army and uses Reloader 15. Mark 316 is loaded at Federal Anoka for USSOCOM with IMR 4064.

Same 175-grain Sierra Match King but different assembly lines, different powders, and different quality control.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USSR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BHP9,

What was the original loading of the M118-LR?
I've seen you talk about it in the past but haven't seen the charge weight listed.

Was it was 44 grains of Reloader - 15? </div></div>

No. When the M118LR was developed (1998 was the first year of production), Olin (Winchester) ran Lake City. The original powder was W750 (don't know the charge weight). When ATK took over Lake City in 2000, the switch was made to Reloader 15.

Don </div></div>

Makes all the sense in the world considering ATK owns Alliant Powders.
 
Re: m118LR deadringer

The M118LR sublot B chronoed at 2690 in my RTE built M40a1.

Loaded ammo on the range, duplicated the velocity with 42.8 grains of IMR 4895, new Lapua brass, Federal 210Ms, and 2.815 COL.

Oehler 43P at 10 ft from muzzle, K4500 read 102 F temperature, 39 % humidity, GPS read 420 ft.

41.8 of IMR 4064 with 175 MK
 

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Man, you should have waited another 35 days...then you could have revived an eight year old thread. :D