M1917 Rifle

[Marcus Murano]

Had a question regarding barrel length, typical length for this rifle is 26 inches and I have seen some scoped sniper projects with shortened barrels(24 inch I suspect). My question is have any of you seen an m1917 rifle with a 28 inch barrel or anything longer than 26? Just curious as how that looks compared to standard length or shortened length.

 

[camocorvette]

Lot to unpack. Talking M1917 rifles sporterized? Or the M1918 prototype sniper rifle?
I don't recall an official 1917 sniper rifle. The war ended before the project finished. That was the M1918.
But a P14 used by the British would have been selected for a official sniper rifle.
I haven't seen a clone P14 sniper with a longer barrel. If it was 28" instead of 26" it'd look about 2 inches longer.
And be considered sporterized or custom I suppose.
A few replacement barrels but they all seem to be 26". I don't think I've seen a custom 1917 on the Hide.
Certainly one may exist.

 

[Marcus Murano]

Thank you for the response, I see now my post was a little too vague. None of the projects I have seen were sporterized. The current m1917 I have is already bubbaed so I figured I couldn't make it any worse hence me being experimental. I asked this question over on Reddit and someone was actually nice enough to Photoshop what this would look like. Your thoughts?

 

[camocorvette]

Give you alittle more velocity, probably more barrel whip. I say go for it. They are only new once. If your going custom maybe a heavier weight barrel?

 

[Marcus Murano]

I was thinking that. Issue with a heavier contour is getting that front sight to fit. Only thing holding me back is the CMP vintage sniper matches I prob wouldn't be able to use it since it wasn't really ever used as a sniper rifle plus the barrel length

 

[ZG47A]

28" barrels are used on 7.62x51 target rifles, in order to achieve acceptable velocities at 1,000 yards whereas a 24" barreled. 30-06 can, in the right hands, hit targets out to 1,200 yards. I have no doubt that there are numerous P14s and M17s that have been converted to single shot and fitted with 1-14" twist barrels chambered to 7 62x51.
For general use, I would stay with 26" barrel length for full-power 'kill a horse at 1,000 yards' performance. It will do all you need and ... minimise the muzzle-blast complaints from 'mummy's boy' mouse rifle shooters. Otherwise you might injure yourself whilst laughing at their whinges!

 

[MK20]

There is no need to shorten the barrel or lengthen it. Then your sight graduations would be slightly off and your bayonet would not fit.

 

[Modoc]

There is no need to shorten the barrel or lengthen it. Then your sight graduations would be slightly off and your bayonet would not fit.

Bayonet on a sniper rifle, for when the shit has Truly hit the fan.

Personally, I believe that the standard barrel was selected for optimal performance of the 7.62x51 in the majority of situations.

 

[MK20]

Bayonet on a sniper rifle, for when the shit has Truly hit the fan.

Personally, I believe that the standard barrel was selected for optimal performance of the 7.62x51 in the majority of situations.

Well, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case, as the standard barrel was ONLY made in 30-06 in US govt production.

 

[Modoc]

Well, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case, as the standard barrel was ONLY made in 30-06 in US govt production.

You are right, but the premise still stands. The barrel length would have been selected for the best performance of the ammunition. My bad for posting while on pain relievers (blew out my knee today ).

MY opinion is that the Ordinance dept. set the barrel length on the optimum for the cartridge.

 

[MK20]

For the OP, if the metal hasn't been cut, finding a stock and hardware isn't too hard.

Bring that girl back to life a bit.

Criterion also makes new replacement barrels very inexpensively.

 

[Marcus Murano]

I see the points you all are making. If I'm going to be restoring it to og configuration then I would like to know if I could use a scoped version for CMP vintage sniper matches? Since their rules state it needs to be in the milspec config I assume I can't just slap a period correct scope on a bad ace style rail system

 

[6.5SH]

I see the points you all are making. If I'm going to be restoring it to og configuration then I would like to know if I could use a scoped version for CMP vintage sniper matches? Since their rules state it needs to be in the milspec config I assume I can't just slap a period correct scope on a bad ace style rail system

AFAIK the 1917 isn't an accepted rifle for the Vintage Sniper matches unless that has recently changed.
It's "as issued" or a replica of, other than prototypes nothing was ever issued using that as a "sniper rifle" with optic.

Competition Rulebooks - Civilian Marksmanship Program

CMP Competition Rulebooks that govern CMP sponsored and sanctioned competitions are posted here, with downloadable copies.

thecmp.org

 

[Marcus Murano]

AFAIK the 1917 isn't an accepted rifle for the Vintage Sniper matches unless that has recently changed.
It's "as issued" or a replica of, other than prototypes nothing was ever issued using that as a "sniper rifle" with optic.

Competition Rulebooks - Civilian Marksmanship Program

CMP Competition Rulebooks that govern CMP sponsored and sanctioned competitions are posted here, with downloadable copies.

thecmp.org

Figured. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[RTH1800]

Bayonet on a sniper rifle, for when the shit has Truly hit the fan.

Personally, I believe that the standard barrel was selected for optimal performance of the 7.62x51 in the majority of situations.

First part is quite funny.

Second paragraph is missing that the 1917 rifle was designed around oh, let’s say 1917 as a wild guess.

The 7.62x51 came out over 30 years later. Lot of forward planning involved in that!

 

[Random Guy]

I see the points you all are making. If I'm going to be restoring it to og configuration then I would like to know if I could use a scoped version for CMP vintage sniper matches? Since their rules state it needs to be in the milspec config I assume I can't just slap a period correct scope on a bad ace style rail system

I use a M1903 with repo 8x scope, but if one really, REALLY wanted to compete with an M1917 rifle, then one could make a very expensive replica of a British Pattern 1914 sniper rifle in .303 British. The parts and labor to install the correct claw-type scope mounting system on the British Pattern 1914 Enfield might equal or exceed the cost of the donor rifle itself. The CMP rules allow that WWI era Enfield sniper rifle, however, those original British Aldis or M1918 Periscopic 3x scopes are rare and pricey museum pieces that are not really available in the USA...but CMP seems to realize this - and I think that is why they allow the more common Winchester A5 and the repo 'William Malcom 3x" scope - both of which were never used by the British on their Pattern 1914 Enfields in WWI, but are much cheaper to find and install that the WWI British optic set-up...

Attached is some info from J.C. Harrison's book "P-17 The American Enfield: The Collector's Field Guide Series; Volume Five (2003).
Given that CMP allows the Winchester A5 scope on the British M1914, and that the USMC tested 12 prototypes of the M1917 with an A5 scope just after WWI, I suppose one could lobby CMP to allow that configuration... However, the ergonomics of that set-up are suboptimal given the very poor cheek weld, and a building an M1903 w/ repo 8x scope is cheaper and IMO more competitive. I have yet to see a British Pattern 1914 sniper at a CMP vintage sniper match, but it is allowed since thousands were used in WWI and the M1918 model was used by the UK as sniper training rifles in WWII.

 

[Marcus Murano]

I use a M1903 with repo 8x scope, but if one really, REALLY wanted to compete with an M1917 rifle, then one could make a very expensive replica of a British Pattern 1914 rifle in .303 British. The CMP rules allow that rifle, but those original British Aldis and Periscopic scopes are rare and pricey museum pieces that are not really available in the USA...but CMP seems to realize this - and I think that is why they allow the more common Winchester A5 and the repo 'William Malcom 3x" scope - both of which were never used by the British in WWI...
View attachment 8117992

Attached is info from J.C. Harrison's book "P-17 The American Enfield: The Collector's Field Guide Series; Volume Five (2003).
Given that CMP allows the Winchester A5 scope on the M1914, and that the USMC tested 12 prototypes of the M1917 with an A5 scope just after WWI, I suppose one could lobby CMP to allow that configuration, but the ergonomics of that set-up are poor, and a building an M1903 w/ repo 8x scope is cheaper and more competitive, IMO...

Yeah, I never set out with this as my purpose, I just happen to have the rifle then it popped in my head as an idea. Looks like I'm making my no4 a sniper and my m1917 a gun to dick around with. Thank you for the info

 

[cplnorton]

I think the story of the USMC testing the M1917 with A5 scope as a sniper rifle after WWI is likely just a urban legend.

By the docs, the Marines turned in all their M1917's by 1920. There is never a mention anywhere in the WWI or post WWI sniper docs that I have seen where they say they tested the m1917 as a sniper.

The closest they ever came, they liked the bolt handle of the M1917, and actually welded the M1917 bolt handle to a M1903 bolt body on some of their test rifles post WWI.

That's really the only connection I have seen of the m1917 and the Marine Sniper program.