M1A accuracy potential?

[bm11]

Hello all,

Every time I see an M1A in a Sage Mod 0, I really start thinking about how I "need" one. The sticking point for me is that if the rifle is going to weigh 15-20 pounds, it's only real purpose for me at that point would be as a precision rifle. And I would want it to be a sub MOA rifle to fill that roll.

I am curious to know, when properly built/set up/etc, is how accurate can these rifles be? I have read "sub MOA" a lot on the internet, but I have come to find that other peoples definition of "sub MOA" is a lot different than mine, in that I don't consider a rifle that occasionally throws 4 out of the 5 shots fired into a tight group with number 5 being a "called flier." My definition is a lot more strict.

Being that I don't recall seeing a M1A entry in any of the 6x5 shoot out threads, ever, I'm curious to hear (and would prefer evidence along the line of a 6x5 target,) how they really shoot. If it takes being custom built by a specific smith using a specific barrel, than that is good data to have as well.

Basically, I've shot enough rounds through various .308 AR's to know that it is real tough to shoot them real well, real consistently. And I've read about how much more inherently accurate .308 AR's are than M1A's.

Thanks in advance!

-BM

 

[kansas]

My son had a M1A in a sage chassis and I could get 1 1/2 three shot groups with good hand loads. We never shot any good factory through it but standard 150 gr Remington ammo went into a 2" group. The biggest problem we had was POI would change. I was never impressed however we didn't spend a lot of time trying to figure it out. I'd read those stories of moa groups but we couldn't mKe that one do it. He sold it and bought a bolt gun and never looked back.

 

[Kiba]

While YMMV, I've spent about $10K between two M1A's chasing repeatable 1 MOA performance. I never wanted sub MOA-- just reliable, repeatable, day in and day out 1 MOA out of them. When I started out I didn't think 1 MOA was too much to ask and disregarded a lot of advice from others with experience who advised that I was headed down a long and expensive path with what would probably be an unhappy ending.

After trying lots of things and spending lots of money I've come to the realization that expecting such accuracy out of an M1A, while occasionally possible, is asking something of the platform it was never designed to do and neither rifle ever consistently achieved the 1 MOA goal I set. After all these years I've come to the conclusion that while the M1A is a great rifle to shoot steel with the iron sights as soon as you throw a scope on it and chase little groups on paper you are in for frustration-- especially if you want to maintain that level of accuracy.

They're still neat rifles but since I'm normally shooting precision I've decided they are not the right rifle for the job. My AR10s do everything better, more accurately, more consistency, and cheaper-- so that's the direction I took. It's not that I tried to cut corners on the M1A; the last M1A I had built was a Ted Brown build on an LRB M25 receiver with all TRW USGI parts except the barrel... I thought I was mostly happy with that rifle until my first AR10 build with a $750 on sale Armalite 24" AR10T upper outshot it easily. Granted the M1A is a more difficult platform to shoot consistently but I had already been shooting the M1A for about 6 years by the time I built and shot my first AR10-- and when my very first trip to the range with the new AR10 showed better accuracy and consistency than my best M1A it was an eye opener.

Again, your experience may vary, and there are some really good shooting M1As out there... but it takes a lot of money, a good smith, and usually more than a good bit of luck to get them there and more importantly to keep them there. I just got tired of the chase and wanted results and a consistently accurate semi auto rifle that I could grab from the safe and go make little groups with it without having to screw with the rifle constantly-- and with that in mind I'm much happier with my AR10s.

 

[DavidAR10]

An ARMALITE AR-10A4 (20" chrome-lined) has a history of beating
tricked-out SA M1A MATCH rifles right out of the box.

BUTT!!! I do believe that the M14/M1A to be one of the Top 10 most beautiful rifles ever built.

 

[cal50]

Accuracy and the SAGE stock - M14 Forum

The SAGE MOD 1 with the magpul rear stock is almost 2 lbs lighter than the MOD 0 with the steel stock assy. The MOD 1 also uses a standard AR pistol grip.
I have not been able to take my MOD 1 to the rage and ring it out but will post results once I do , good or bad.

The SAGE chassis is a nice idea on an old platform that enhances the inherent accuracy of the base rifle without the need for specialized bedding or NM mods like unitizing the gas cylinder , stock mods, etc.
A properly built M1A with a Krieger barrel should yield MOA results. YMMV

 

[SatCong]

All I know my NM M1A is a MOA rifle. With 168 grain and 155 grains loads. They are my reloads.

 

[Valken]

I would consider a well built M1A a 3/4 shooter with the right ammo and finger behind the trigger. While they are different with enough trigger time it can be done. Beyond 300 my groups open up a bit and after 600 I am. Min plus shooter. I have pulled a few 15 inch and one 11 inch group at 1000 but always under 2 mins. None I of M1A/m14 type rifles run with a safe. All are bedded Ina Mac stock of some kind. I would not expect the safe to shot better but since I have no experience with them I can't say for sure
4 of my M1A/M14 run with Krieger medium weight barrels and the preform the best It's. A hard platform to shot and to shot consistently. Funny I shot this long before I started running a bolt gun. And once I started to ya with My Gap I shot it like poop took awhile for me to keep it tight not to mention pulling the trigger a second time before realizing I needed to cycle the bolt myself. Geez In closing a well built medium weight M1A/M14 type rifle can shoot tight and it will cost a lot these days to build them so they can run like that. All this on top of a platform that take a lot of work to master. And yes flyers still happen even after 15 or so years of playing with the platform. It is a real challah just are you up to it and can you afford it.

 

[08Cayenne]

I like wood.

I have 2 that shoot 1 moa, probably closer to 3/4 if I took the time. Both are set-up for long range, don't waste ammo at 100 yards, just a cold bore and to check for zero. One is a bone stock SAI M21 Supermatch, rear lugged with traditional bedding, not cheap still cost $3k back in 2008.

I just received my latest about a month ago, its in a wood stock also. Fancy Claro walnut M14H3 heavy forend hybrid stock, matching wood hand guard clearanced for the barrel, adjustable cheek riser, Pachmayr D550 pad, rear lug pillar screw, Receiver touches no wood, only bedding, strong barrel draw pressure with NM modified ferrule. It is a pig at 19 pounds empty. I've shot it out to 1165 yards at 12" x 12" plates. It shows promise.

SAI M21 supermatch.


6 shot group at JaimeD's shooting class.


Four 5 shot groups, average 1.08"



LRB



LRB at 125 yards, first time I took it out.

 

[BCP]

Every time I see an M1A in a Sage Mod 0...And I would want it to be a sub MOA rifle to fill that roll.

If you want a sage M1A then get one just don't bank on it being sub moa, or even near MOA.

BTW, the sage gear is costly. 600-800 for the chassis and another couple hundred for accessories. So figure say 1200 for a smoking deal on a standard model, another 800 if you found a deal on a used sage + accessories...or, say you buy a new rifle from someone like LRB...there goes 2500, brand new sage is what 899? You will be balls deep in the thing before you know it.