M1A and AR10

[squirrelsnpr]

I do not want to start a thread comparing the M1A to the AR10. What I am interested in doing is getting feedback on potential accuracy of both rifles.

I am caught between both models. Here is what I plan on using the rifle for:
-walking hunting rifle for mid sized deer
-tactical matches (potentialy out to 1000 yards)

I want to go with the M1A, but feel as if I may be limiting myself due to the available caliber selection offered in the AR10 (i.e. the 260 Remington/284 Winchester and so on).

I would plan on going with a custom build either way, and need to know how accurate the M1A and AR10 can be.

Thank you for the input,
Mitch

 

[Strangedays]

Re: M1A and AR10

I have a dpms LR-308 I get under 1/2 MOA at 100 meters all day long.

 

[edgerat]

Re: M1A and AR10

from what I have seen you will spend a good bit more money to get an M1A that is as accurate or more accurate as a similarly tuned up AR10.

 

[jdel]

Re: M1A and AR10

The AR will be more accurate but an M1A is badd ass. AR 10's are sweet too but I'm partial to the M1A.

 

[squirrelsnpr]

Re: M1A and AR10

shepheard, this is another reason why I'm stuck. I think making hits with the M1A would be more difficult, but I like a challenge. I was thinking about putting the M1A in the McM folding stock with a Magpul full sniper stock. It would look like one mean rifle.

 

[Walsh]

Re: M1A and AR10

Well, the M14 wins on reliability, I'd put in in a Sage EBR stock though, why, cause I think it looks way better.

Now if you got a piston AR-10, then flip a coin.

 

[squirrelsnpr]

Re: M1A and AR10

What kind of accuracy could I expect out of each? MOA or less? Let's just say at 500 yards.

And what caliber would you all go with in the AR 10?

 

[Strangedays]

Re: M1A and AR10

My brother has a M1A in a sage stock he is thinking of parting with if anyone was interested I could let him know. I think he has under 50 rounds down the tube.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: M1A and AR10

The M1A is going to be more prone to issues with mounts, bedding and ergonomics.

The AR10 was designed to be a ergonomic, optically mounted platform. It can also be chambered a wide assortment of calibers. You also have the option of having a second upper built in a different caliber and swapping them back and forth. No worries about bedding and the scope mount options are many. You can build it light or heavy. You can build it for close range gunfighting or long range target work.

With the AR10 you have more options than you can imagine and more are available almost weekly.

I do agree the M1A is badass, but as an iron sighted battle rifle. It's the same reason I love my M1, but I don't try to lash up a scope to it and put it head to head with rifles that were designed that way.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: M1A and AR10

They weigh about the same. The ergonomics of the AR control muzzle flip better, and the basic platform is capable of more reliable accuracy since it's not as subject to weather-related stock instabilities. I carried the M14 day in, day out for over a year in 'Nam, and it both stood up to the challenge, and got me through it all intact. I have a sentimental preference for the M14/M1A, and an intellectual preference for the AR. I have owned the M1A and AR15, and feel the same way now.

But I now own neither, and only retain a Garand and and SKS as semiauto battle-type rifles. I consider them both to be more practical for their appropiate applications. The Garand is intended for Main Battle Rifle applications, and the SKS has a dot scope mounted atop the gas tube and is intended for CQB type applications where an assault weapon cartridge is more appropriate.

Greg

 

[merlinnnn]

Re: M1A and AR10

I have both the AR10 and M14. The AR is a GAP build and the M14 is actually a LRB built M25 witch solves the mount issue. Accuracy has been similar, the AR is a 17", I have 2 M25's 18.5 and 21. All I have to say about fun to shoot it's the M25 all the way. The 18.5 has a S&B 1-4 and I run the irons on the 21. Also have a Fulton Armory built M14 which has the ARMS 18 mount, works fine, but the M25 is failsafe.

merlinn

 

[mackdrvr]

Re: M1A and AR10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shepheard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AR will be more accurate but an M1A is badd ass. AR 10's are sweet too but I'm partial to the M1A. </div></div>
I agree with shepheard...The M1A is truly badass, and I own a Loaded model, but I feel the AR10 is the easier of the two to accurize, and maintain.

 

[acehigh]

Re: M1A and AR10

can you even own either one in kalifornicate?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: M1A and AR10

All,

Both concepts will always shoot a bullet in the direction the barrel is pointed; however, understanding where the AR-10 is poinited, is, I believe, easier than understanding where the M1A is pointed.

 

[m21black]

Re: M1A and AR10

I have 2 of each... You can't beat the 14 as a battle rifle but you have to love how much easier it is to get a a AR 10 to be a tackdriver.

 

[asbestosglove]

Re: M1A and AR10

If you actually shoot it you will find the M1A is much harder to keep accuracy tuned over the long haul. Ergonomics are terrible when compared to the AR platform, as are optics mounting choices. Expect everything to cost more, from mounts to maintenance, with the M1A. Everything with the M1A involves a 'smith or an armorer, while the AR-10 or RRA or DPMS can be largely user-serviced, including barrel changes. Try changing a barrel on your M1A in your basement with $50 worth of tools. There is no bedding to contend with, much less re-do, with the various AR's. I know, put it in a chassis...which would add $600-$1000 to the cost of the M1A, to get one to the point the AR was when we started. The AR is much easier to shoot prone...your thumb is not trying to relocate your nose with every shot. I have two M1A's, a Super and a standard. The Super has 3500 rounds on this barrel, so I'm no stranger to lying behind one of them. The AR-10 types were not available when I started so the M1A was the only choice. It was not badass at the time, it was just what was there. Knowing all the compromises one has to make with the M1A and the choices one has today, the AR platform would be my choice. AG

 

[LFOD1776]

Re: M1A and AR10

If your heart is set on the M1A, and if you're building from scratch anyway, then start with the LRB M25 receiver -- it has a mil-spec rail-mount built right in. That will eliminate all the scope-mounting problems M1A owners encounter. Obviously get yourself a good barrel, at least a medium-profile if you're going to shoot matches. For ergonomics and long-lived repeatability, you'll want to go with an after-market stock with a bullet-proof bedding system that won't wear over time: a JAE-100, Sage EBR or Troy MCS stock. Finally, SEI makes an improved bolt stop and Sadlak makes a larger mag release -- combined they will make for quicker magazine changes.

As you can see, that's a lot of upgrades to get what many AR-10s can basically give you out-of-the-box.

Of course, I collect them all!

 

[LukeUSMC]

Re: M1A and AR10

I have an M1A Scout about to get put in a Sage stock. M1A/Garands have always been my pick. But I've seen a few ar10/sr25's do some amazing work.

 

[mbandy13]

Re: M1A and AR10

every thing that has been said so far is right on the money. If you are going the custom route both weapons should shot sub minute. I would add to LFO1776's post and say the JAE 100G2 is the cats ass for the M1A, it takes away all of the bedding issues that are the real pain in the ass for M1A's. It breaks my heart to say it but if I had to choose, it would be the AR-10 just because of the options. Being able to switch out the upper and go to a 260 for example is a really nice feature. That being said, my heart is with the M1A its more fun to shoot, and dead sexy.

mike

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: M1A and AR10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They weigh about the same. The ergonomics of the AR control muzzle flip better, and the basic platform is capable of more reliable accuracy since it's not as subject to weather-related stock instabilities. I carried the M14 day in, day out for over a year in 'Nam, and it both stood up to the challenge, and got me through it all intact. I have a sentimental preference for the M14/M1A, and an intellectual preference for the AR. I have owned the M1A and AR15, and feel the same way now.

But I now own neither, and only retain a Garand and and SKS as semiauto battle-type rifles. I consider them both to be more practical for their appropiate applications. The Garand is intended for Main Battle Rifle applications, and the SKS has a dot scope mounted atop the gas tube and is intended for CQB type applications where an assault weapon cartridge is more appropriate.

Greg</div></div>

Greg,

I'm curious, why do you think the Garand to be more practical than the M14 for its application?

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: M1A and AR10

Go with the AR-10 in .260 Remington.
I have one and it holds 1 moa out to 1000 yards with the 20" stainless factory barrel and that is a realistic expectation for this kind of rifle.
It's easy to shoot well, allows you to spot your hits, and costs less that 1k.
With a mk4 or similar scope you can have the rifle ready to go for about what you'll spend just for a quality M-14.
M-1A's can be finicky but they sure are sweethearts on the range.

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: M1A and AR10

Have Smith Enterprise, Inc. custom build a M21A5/Crazy Horse for you.
You can use a more traditional USGI synthetic stock and over the receiver scope mount just like SEI does.
The configuration described above delivers reliable sub-MOA accuracy out to 1000 yards.

Another option (my favorite) is the M21A5/Crazy Horse EBR.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: M1A and AR10

I recall a newsie commenting when the US troops landed in Haiti/Dominica/whatever that they had no real opposition; the only real rifles around were 'some old National Guard M1 Garands'.

Well, IMHO, those 'old National Guard' Garands were capable of accurate MR/LR supporting fire, with a better than average chance of giving personal armor a run for its money.

I would not want to stand in front of any Battle Rifle at 1000yd, but the one that would scare me most is a Garand. .30-'06 is a MF'er when you're on the receiving end.

Greg

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: M1A and AR10

I just don't see a big enough advantage with a 30-06 over the .308 and when you can have 20rd magazines ready to go, seems like the M14 has the upper hand. I would love to own a Garand one day, there is a degree of nostalgia that the M14 will never have over its predecessor.

 

[merlinnnn]

Re: M1A and AR10

Here is my LRB M25 "Tanker" built by Paul at LRB. Consistant sub MOA out to 600, I have not shot it farther yet. Deadly on Calif wild boar, my bedside bad guy rifle, Great rifle!!

merlinn

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: M1A and AR10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have Smith Enterprise, Inc. custom build a M21A5/Crazy Horse for you.
You can use a more traditional USGI synthetic stock and over the receiver scope mount just like SEI does.
The configuration described above delivers reliable sub-MOA accuracy out to 1000 yards.

Another option (my favorite) is the M21A5/Crazy Horse EBR.</div></div>

Is that your experience..sub MOA performance at 1000 yards?

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: M1A and AR10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have Smith Enterprise, Inc. custom build a M21A5/Crazy Horse for you.
You can use a more traditional USGI synthetic stock and over the receiver scope mount just like SEI does.
The configuration described above delivers reliable sub-MOA accuracy out to 1000 yards.

Another option (my favorite) is the M21A5/Crazy Horse EBR.</div></div>

Is that your experience..sub MOA performance at 1000 yards? </div></div>


I would be very surprised if it were

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: M1A and AR10

I would need to see proof of that on a consistent basis to believe sub-moa, especially on an 18" non-bedded rifle. There are exceptions that defy the standard but there isn't anything to suggest that a Crazy Horse is built in a manner that it would hold that kind of accuracy consistently. If it does then my custom LRB M25 18.5" medium match barrel, bedded into a fiberglass stock that rivals a McMillan in stiffness should shoot 1/2 moa at 1000 all day long. I love Smith Enterprise products but that is one hell of an accuracy claim.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: M1A and AR10

'Horse'

I hope you get your wish, and soon; then you'll understand there's more to it. I have a huge nostalgic lump over the M14, but like the WWII poster says, "My Garand does my talking...". It's like driving a vintage Rolls.

Greg

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: M1A and AR10

Greg,

It's one rifle I have not yet had the pleasure of shooting. I almost feel like I've committed a crime against the firearms industry and done a disservice to my country...just have to spend some time at the Garand matches next year. You ever come out this way to shoot at Forbes Rifle Range?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: M1A and AR10

No, but it's because I can't handle long trips, and don't want to leave my Wife Celia alone for any longer than is absolutely necessary. We both have significant health issue.

I managed to steal my Garand from the DCM in the early '90's for $250, issue grade.

What arrived was a prewar (9/41) S/A with a spotless 1953 Win barrel, and an arsenal refinish job that looked virgin.

I refinished the stock, removing (steaming) all but one truly character laden ding, glassbedded it, replaced the rear sights with N/M .052" and put a hooded ring front sight on it. A 1" rubber extension butt plate completes its configuration as an H/P Match Rifle. Shoots right up there in N/M territory.

As my Dad used to say about other things, "...and every young boy should have one...". Many did, in the 1940's and 1950's; both my Elder Brothers included. Bill used to shoot his on the Battalion Rifle Team.

They used a trick that Garand Class shooters might consider. Modifying the stock was illegal then, as it is now. But they would assemble the action into the stock with shims, using typewriter paper folded in layers, so it would clamp down really solid. Made it shoot a lot tighter; and when they disassembled it, they would just remove the shims, and there the stock would be, as naked as the day it was born.

Greg