M21 blued for 2600 or M21 stainless barrel for 2900? I have a dealer who said he would get me one for these prices. I don't know much about these. Does one shoot better than the other.
- Thread starter dar1246
- Start date
Re: M21 help
I personaly never saw the need for stainless to pay more for it. As far as one metal shooting better, I havent noticed that but have noticed some rifles do better than others, might need to know more about the package other than one is stainless.
I personaly never saw the need for stainless to pay more for it. As far as one metal shooting better, I havent noticed that but have noticed some rifles do better than others, might need to know more about the package other than one is stainless.
Re: M21 help
The stainless is probably the Kreiger barrel which is a few hundred more than the Douglas. I have a Supermatch with the blued Douglas barrel on it. It shoots incredibly, I don't know how much better the Krieger could be.
The stainless is probably the Kreiger barrel which is a few hundred more than the Douglas. I have a Supermatch with the blued Douglas barrel on it. It shoots incredibly, I don't know how much better the Krieger could be.
Re: M21 help
I only thing that would be different is the barrels. The one is a Douglass blue barrel and the 2900 is Keieger barrel. I shot a lot of kreieger barrels but never shot a Douglass.
The package is the standard M21 rifle just the barrel.
I only thing that would be different is the barrels. The one is a Douglass blue barrel and the 2900 is Keieger barrel. I shot a lot of kreieger barrels but never shot a Douglass.
The package is the standard M21 rifle just the barrel.
Re: M21 help
I would be willing to bet if you had the Douglas rifle bedded it would shoot as well if not better than the kreiger. May be worth saving money on barrel to fund the bedding job. If cost is no option get the kreig and bed it.
I would be willing to bet if you had the Douglas rifle bedded it would shoot as well if not better than the kreiger. May be worth saving money on barrel to fund the bedding job. If cost is no option get the kreig and bed it.
Re: M21 help
m21 comes bedded if i am not misinformed............
m21 comes bedded if i am not misinformed............
Re: M21 help
The M21 comes bedded... It's basically a SuperMatch in a different stock.
I've always liked Krieger stainless barrels but that's me. Nothing against Douglas, just prefer Krieger and single point cutting. As for stainless, I usually paint the exposed barrel portion with Alumahyde 2 so it's not shiny. My reason for stainless is I don't like rust. I know stainless can rust but it's less likely. A friend pulled the hand guard off his M21 with a chromoly Krieger barrel and it had rust and pits going on. I've yet to have that happen to any of the three stainless Kriegers I've had.
What I don't get is the $300 more, that's almost the cost of a Krieger by itself. I'd almost vote go with the Douglas, save the cash and when you shoot it out get a Krieger.
The M21 comes bedded... It's basically a SuperMatch in a different stock.
I've always liked Krieger stainless barrels but that's me. Nothing against Douglas, just prefer Krieger and single point cutting. As for stainless, I usually paint the exposed barrel portion with Alumahyde 2 so it's not shiny. My reason for stainless is I don't like rust. I know stainless can rust but it's less likely. A friend pulled the hand guard off his M21 with a chromoly Krieger barrel and it had rust and pits going on. I've yet to have that happen to any of the three stainless Kriegers I've had.
What I don't get is the $300 more, that's almost the cost of a Krieger by itself. I'd almost vote go with the Douglas, save the cash and when you shoot it out get a Krieger.
Re: M21 help
I think I will with the Douglass. I knew the kreieger barrels cost around 300 but thought maybe there was some hidden thing. Thanks for you help
I think I will with the Douglass. I knew the kreieger barrels cost around 300 but thought maybe there was some hidden thing. Thanks for you help
Re: M21 help
Learn something new everyday I was under the impression that just the fiberglass McM stocks were factory bedded. Didnt think they bedded the wood ones...good to know.
Learn something new everyday I was under the impression that just the fiberglass McM stocks were factory bedded. Didnt think they bedded the wood ones...good to know.
Re: M21 help
I'd rather have a loaded/nm & spend the $$$$ on a custom stock. Troy, JAE, or God help me one of those EBR stocks that H20MAN is obsessed with.
I'd rather have a loaded/nm & spend the $$$$ on a custom stock. Troy, JAE, or God help me one of those EBR stocks that H20MAN is obsessed with.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn something new everyday I was under the impression that just the fiberglass McM stocks were factory bedded. Didnt think they bedded the wood ones...good to know.
</div></div>
The National Match version is also bedded, in a wood stock. So National Match, M21 and Super Match rifles are all bedded in either wood or fiberglass stocks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn something new everyday I was under the impression that just the fiberglass McM stocks were factory bedded. Didnt think they bedded the wood ones...good to know.
</div></div>
The National Match version is also bedded, in a wood stock. So National Match, M21 and Super Match rifles are all bedded in either wood or fiberglass stocks.
Re: M21 help
The douglas on my supermatch is great. I would save the cash and put it in the right mount and optics.
The douglas on my supermatch is great. I would save the cash and put it in the right mount and optics.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn something new everyday I was under the impression that just the fiberglass McM stocks were factory bedded. Didnt think they bedded the wood ones...good to know.
</div></div>
The National Match version is also bedded, in a wood stock. So National Match, M21 and Super Match rifles are all bedded in either wood or fiberglass stocks. </div></div>
Actually the M21 is a wood stock only, no fiberglass option. No Fiberglass option with the NM either. Though at one time I thought it had the option.
Seriously I'd get the Krieger. The counties SWAT rifle is an M21 and my M21 smokes it every time with just minor tweaks, but mainly Krieger vs Douglas barrels. Krieger used to be an option on the Super Match, why it isn't anymore is beyond me. All I know is the M21 is their current flagship rifle and it drives tacks with a Krieger. Don't get me wrong, both are quite good, but the Krieger edges out the Douglas. Firing both, I'm impressed more by Krieger. My .02
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn something new everyday I was under the impression that just the fiberglass McM stocks were factory bedded. Didnt think they bedded the wood ones...good to know.
</div></div>
The National Match version is also bedded, in a wood stock. So National Match, M21 and Super Match rifles are all bedded in either wood or fiberglass stocks. </div></div>
Actually the M21 is a wood stock only, no fiberglass option. No Fiberglass option with the NM either. Though at one time I thought it had the option.
Seriously I'd get the Krieger. The counties SWAT rifle is an M21 and my M21 smokes it every time with just minor tweaks, but mainly Krieger vs Douglas barrels. Krieger used to be an option on the Super Match, why it isn't anymore is beyond me. All I know is the M21 is their current flagship rifle and it drives tacks with a Krieger. Don't get me wrong, both are quite good, but the Krieger edges out the Douglas. Firing both, I'm impressed more by Krieger. My .02
Re: M21 help
Could have sworn they offered a factory supermatch with a green camo McMillan stock.
Regardless all of these recent threads about M14's is making me itch really bad and I fear there is only one way to scratch it.
I have worked on and shot them over the years in the Navy, my dad has a few but every time I decide I need one I chicken out get something else and "borrow" one of my dads for a prolonged period of time
Really giving serious thought to trying my hand at building one.
Could have sworn they offered a factory supermatch with a green camo McMillan stock.
Regardless all of these recent threads about M14's is making me itch really bad and I fear there is only one way to scratch it.
I have worked on and shot them over the years in the Navy, my dad has a few but every time I decide I need one I chicken out get something else and "borrow" one of my dads for a prolonged period of time
Really giving serious thought to trying my hand at building one.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually the M21 is a wood stock only, no fiberglass option. No Fiberglass option with the NM either. Though at one time I thought it had the option.</div></div>
My mistake, I wasn't specific. NM, wood only. M21, wood only with adjustable comb. SM, wood or fiberglass.
Wasn't the green M3A stock on the M25 or was it only in black? I don't recall.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually the M21 is a wood stock only, no fiberglass option. No Fiberglass option with the NM either. Though at one time I thought it had the option.</div></div>
My mistake, I wasn't specific. NM, wood only. M21, wood only with adjustable comb. SM, wood or fiberglass.
Wasn't the green M3A stock on the M25 or was it only in black? I don't recall.
Re: M21 help
I would think the adjustable check piece is a must if putting a scope on it.
I would think the adjustable check piece is a must if putting a scope on it.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could have sworn they offered a factory supermatch with a green camo McMillan stock.
Really giving serious thought to trying my hand at building one. </div></div>
Marine Camo Mcmillan was all I remember for the last 20+ years.
Building one you can do anything you want, std to wild. Pretty fun to pick and choose parts while learning. A qualified smith or armorer is going to have to do some of it. That cost can fluctuate depending. All and all prepare to spend some coin. This isn't a puke AR where you build it sitting on the crapper. Well worth the trouble though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could have sworn they offered a factory supermatch with a green camo McMillan stock.
Really giving serious thought to trying my hand at building one. </div></div>
Marine Camo Mcmillan was all I remember for the last 20+ years.
Building one you can do anything you want, std to wild. Pretty fun to pick and choose parts while learning. A qualified smith or armorer is going to have to do some of it. That cost can fluctuate depending. All and all prepare to spend some coin. This isn't a puke AR where you build it sitting on the crapper. Well worth the trouble though.
Re: M21 help
I have some ARs sitting around and thought I might sell them and get what I really want. 2 of these I want. One is the M21 and the Scout. I have shot them and like them more than the AR platforms. I have and own ARs for years but never really like them.
The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me.
I have some ARs sitting around and thought I might sell them and get what I really want. 2 of these I want. One is the M21 and the Scout. I have shot them and like them more than the AR platforms. I have and own ARs for years but never really like them.
The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me.
Re: M21 help
building one is half the fun, i personaly bought a nm for the medium weight barrel its have with the standard barrel much less a medium or a heavy. yes nm are bedded in a walnut stock and you can get a fat supermatch stock or the thin standard width stock.
building one is half the fun, i personaly bought a nm for the medium weight barrel its have with the standard barrel much less a medium or a heavy. yes nm are bedded in a walnut stock and you can get a fat supermatch stock or the thin standard width stock.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Building one you can do anything you want, std to wild. Pretty fun to pick and choose parts while learning. A qualified smith or armorer is going to have to do some of it. That cost can fluctuate depending. All and all prepare to spend some coin. This isn't a puke AR where you build it sitting on the crapper. Well worth the trouble though. </div></div>
I have taken these things down all the way short of removing the barrel, that is the one step I'm leary of but I think I'm willing to try it and see how it goes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Building one you can do anything you want, std to wild. Pretty fun to pick and choose parts while learning. A qualified smith or armorer is going to have to do some of it. That cost can fluctuate depending. All and all prepare to spend some coin. This isn't a puke AR where you build it sitting on the crapper. Well worth the trouble though. </div></div>
I have taken these things down all the way short of removing the barrel, that is the one step I'm leary of but I think I'm willing to try it and see how it goes.
Re: M21 help
I hear you dar. A nice trigger is a must. When a friend offered me a go around with his LRB scout length build I couldn't resist. He had a Smith Max Pack trigger job in his. It was very nice. It is far better feeling than what SAi passes for match triggers in the rifles today. I'd be gtg with it on everything. It is well worth the money.
Personally mine has a SAi M25 trigger group in it. Better be dead calm if you take up the slack or your sending one. In a socom maybe to whole mag! Not for the inexperienced. I can actually feel the take up, after more than a decade with it, while most don't. It is darn near a hair trigger factory set at 1.5#. To me the very best trigger group ever devised for this rifle in a precision role though.
I hear you dar. A nice trigger is a must. When a friend offered me a go around with his LRB scout length build I couldn't resist. He had a Smith Max Pack trigger job in his. It was very nice. It is far better feeling than what SAi passes for match triggers in the rifles today. I'd be gtg with it on everything. It is well worth the money.
Personally mine has a SAi M25 trigger group in it. Better be dead calm if you take up the slack or your sending one. In a socom maybe to whole mag! Not for the inexperienced. I can actually feel the take up, after more than a decade with it, while most don't. It is darn near a hair trigger factory set at 1.5#. To me the very best trigger group ever devised for this rifle in a precision role though.
Re: M21 help
Dar,
Springfield M21
SA9121 Douglas is a 6 groove 1:10 righthand twist(Parkerized)
SA9131 Krieger is a 4 groove 1:10 righthand twist (Stainless)
Hope this helps with your choice. You will be happy with either. My personal opinion is go with the Krieger.
Monnie
Dar,
Springfield M21
SA9121 Douglas is a 6 groove 1:10 righthand twist(Parkerized)
SA9131 Krieger is a 4 groove 1:10 righthand twist (Stainless)
Hope this helps with your choice. You will be happy with either. My personal opinion is go with the Krieger.
Monnie
Re: M21 help
From the responses I got. I think both shoot the same. So, I think I might go with the Douglas and save 300.
From the responses I got. I think both shoot the same. So, I think I might go with the Douglas and save 300.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... He had a Smith Max Pack trigger job in his. It was very nice. It is far better feeling than what SAi passes for match triggers in the rifles today. I'd be gtg with it on everything. It is well worth the money.</div></div>
+1
I have a few SEI MAX-PAK trigger groups and they are the best I have ever used.
Two are TRW, two are ChiCom... 4 break @ 4.5 lbs, 1 breaks @ 4.0 lbs and all of them feel lighter now that I am using EBR trigger shoes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M21guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... He had a Smith Max Pack trigger job in his. It was very nice. It is far better feeling than what SAi passes for match triggers in the rifles today. I'd be gtg with it on everything. It is well worth the money.</div></div>
+1
I have a few SEI MAX-PAK trigger groups and they are the best I have ever used.
Two are TRW, two are ChiCom... 4 break @ 4.5 lbs, 1 breaks @ 4.0 lbs and all of them feel lighter now that I am using EBR trigger shoes.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From the responses I got. I think both shoot the same. So, I think I might go with the Douglas and save 300. </div></div>
The Douglass barrels will shoot lights out. They are great barrels. I have observed more than once where a 4 grooved Kreiger shot like a rack grade M14. Just not impressed with their 4-groovd barrels on a M1A.
Now go with a Douglas and cut up that X-Ring!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From the responses I got. I think both shoot the same. So, I think I might go with the Douglas and save 300. </div></div>
The Douglass barrels will shoot lights out. They are great barrels. I have observed more than once where a 4 grooved Kreiger shot like a rack grade M14. Just not impressed with their 4-groovd barrels on a M1A.
Now go with a Douglas and cut up that X-Ring!
Re: M21 help
I don't know much about the Kreiger barrels. I've been shooting the Douglas Barrels for over 30 years on my Super Match M1A and differant NG Match M14s.
The military use to have some med heavy match barrels they put on the NM M14s and M-21s. They were 4 grove barrels and shoot the 174s (M118) pretty good. Used them when I went to AMU Sniper School and when I taught Sniper Schools for the Guard.
BUT: When we started mexican matching with 168 SMKs and later when they came out with the M852, we found we needed the 6 groove Douglas Barrels. The 6 groove barrels didn't shoot the 174s as good as the 4 grooves did. Back then supply being what it was we never knew if we were getting M118 or M852s, or how much money I could squeese out of the state to by 168s. I had to issue two rifles to my State Rifle team, The 4 groove military match barrel for M118 and the 6 Groove Douglas (Barnett) barrels for 852 or Mexican Match.
This was before the M118LRs came out. For 1000 yard service rifle matches I used state funds to buy 180 SMKs (the older 180s, not the 180s Serria puts out today). So we if we had M118s, we used the 4 groove military barrels for 1000 yard service rifle matches, If we could get the 180s we used the 6 Barnett (Douglas) barrels.
Again I don't know about the Kreiger barrels but if they are 4 groove, I would do some investigating before I made the choice.
I don't know much about the Kreiger barrels. I've been shooting the Douglas Barrels for over 30 years on my Super Match M1A and differant NG Match M14s.
The military use to have some med heavy match barrels they put on the NM M14s and M-21s. They were 4 grove barrels and shoot the 174s (M118) pretty good. Used them when I went to AMU Sniper School and when I taught Sniper Schools for the Guard.
BUT: When we started mexican matching with 168 SMKs and later when they came out with the M852, we found we needed the 6 groove Douglas Barrels. The 6 groove barrels didn't shoot the 174s as good as the 4 grooves did. Back then supply being what it was we never knew if we were getting M118 or M852s, or how much money I could squeese out of the state to by 168s. I had to issue two rifles to my State Rifle team, The 4 groove military match barrel for M118 and the 6 Groove Douglas (Barnett) barrels for 852 or Mexican Match.
This was before the M118LRs came out. For 1000 yard service rifle matches I used state funds to buy 180 SMKs (the older 180s, not the 180s Serria puts out today). So we if we had M118s, we used the 4 groove military barrels for 1000 yard service rifle matches, If we could get the 180s we used the 6 Barnett (Douglas) barrels.
Again I don't know about the Kreiger barrels but if they are 4 groove, I would do some investigating before I made the choice.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
You can get a standard SAI or USGI trigger group polished internally to give a nice consistent first stage play with a clean break at 4-4.5 lbs. I had an armorer do it to mine while he had it replacing the barrel, cost me all of $35 - and well worth it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
You can get a standard SAI or USGI trigger group polished internally to give a nice consistent first stage play with a clean break at 4-4.5 lbs. I had an armorer do it to mine while he had it replacing the barrel, cost me all of $35 - and well worth it.
Re: M21 help
That is a good option for the trigger.
That is a good option for the trigger.
Re: M21 help
DAR,
If you are interested
Douglas are Button Rifled
Krieger are Cut Rifled
Monnie
DAR,
If you are interested
Douglas are Button Rifled
Krieger are Cut Rifled
Monnie
Re: M21 help
For the $300 difference, I would probably just get the Douglas barrel (and save that money towards getting a Krieger later after you shoot out the Douglas). There are about 30 other things to worry about and perfect before the differences between two premium barrels comes into play. My Criterion medium-heavy barrel, which is button rifled and chrome lined, will make 3/4 MOA 5-shot groups, but it took a lot of stock work, most of which will already be done with the M21, to get it to do that. Personally, I think it's a toss-up which one would shoot better out of the store.
For the $300 difference, I would probably just get the Douglas barrel (and save that money towards getting a Krieger later after you shoot out the Douglas). There are about 30 other things to worry about and perfect before the differences between two premium barrels comes into play. My Criterion medium-heavy barrel, which is button rifled and chrome lined, will make 3/4 MOA 5-shot groups, but it took a lot of stock work, most of which will already be done with the M21, to get it to do that. Personally, I think it's a toss-up which one would shoot better out of the store.
Re: M21 help
I know the latest thing in barrels is to get the cut rifling. I have shot some button cut barrels that shot just as good. Not real picky on that.
I know the latest thing in barrels is to get the cut rifling. I have shot some button cut barrels that shot just as good. Not real picky on that.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bricktop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
You can get a standard SAI or USGI trigger group polished internally to give a nice consistent first stage play with a clean break at 4-4.5 lbs. I had an armorer do it to mine while he had it replacing the barrel, cost me all of $35 - and well worth it. </div></div>
I tried this method and two different armorers. Their work was very good, but the MAX-PAK is so much better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bricktop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
You can get a standard SAI or USGI trigger group polished internally to give a nice consistent first stage play with a clean break at 4-4.5 lbs. I had an armorer do it to mine while he had it replacing the barrel, cost me all of $35 - and well worth it. </div></div>
I tried this method and two different armorers. Their work was very good, but the MAX-PAK is so much better.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bricktop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
You can get a standard SAI or USGI trigger group polished internally to give a nice consistent first stage play with a clean break at 4-4.5 lbs. I had an armorer do it to mine while he had it replacing the barrel, cost me all of $35 - and well worth it. </div></div>
I tried this method and two different armorers. Their work was very good, but the MAX-PAK is so much better. </div></div>
What's even better than the Max-Pak is having the trigger tuned then have it Melonited and essentially get an $85 Max-Pak trigger group. I did this, $75 for SEI to tune it and $10 to have it Melonited (what M80HT is). Butter smooth with a glass rod break.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bricktop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
You can get a standard SAI or USGI trigger group polished internally to give a nice consistent first stage play with a clean break at 4-4.5 lbs. I had an armorer do it to mine while he had it replacing the barrel, cost me all of $35 - and well worth it. </div></div>
I tried this method and two different armorers. Their work was very good, but the MAX-PAK is so much better. </div></div>
What's even better than the Max-Pak is having the trigger tuned then have it Melonited and essentially get an $85 Max-Pak trigger group. I did this, $75 for SEI to tune it and $10 to have it Melonited (what M80HT is). Butter smooth with a glass rod break.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have some ARs sitting around and thought I might sell them and get what I really want. 2 of these I want. One is the M21 and the Scout. I have shot them and like them more than the AR platforms. I have and own ARs for years but never really like them.
The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
That is quite a paint job. Would you care to post some better pictures of it? Did you do the color?
Also, what factors made you decide on an M21 vs. M25 or "just an M1a? Thank you for your time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have some ARs sitting around and thought I might sell them and get what I really want. 2 of these I want. One is the M21 and the Scout. I have shot them and like them more than the AR platforms. I have and own ARs for years but never really like them.
The only thing with the Scout is the trigger would need work. A nice trigger is a must with me. </div></div>
That is quite a paint job. Would you care to post some better pictures of it? Did you do the color?
Also, what factors made you decide on an M21 vs. M25 or "just an M1a? Thank you for your time.
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know much about the Kreiger barrels. I've been shooting the Douglas Barrels for over 30 years on my Super Match M1A and differant NG Match M14s.
The military use to have some med heavy match barrels they put on the NM M14s and M-21s. They were 4 grove barrels and shoot the 174s (M118) pretty good. Used them when I went to AMU Sniper School and when I taught Sniper Schools for the Guard.
BUT: When we started mexican matching with 168 SMKs and later when they came out with the M852, we found we needed the 6 groove Douglas Barrels. The 6 groove barrels didn't shoot the 174s as good as the 4 grooves did. Back then supply being what it was we never knew if we were getting M118 or M852s, or how much money I could squeese out of the state to by 168s. I had to issue two rifles to my State Rifle team, The 4 groove military match barrel for M118 and the 6 Groove Douglas (Barnett) barrels for 852 or Mexican Match.
This was before the M118LRs came out. For 1000 yard service rifle matches I used state funds to buy 180 SMKs (the older 180s, not the 180s Serria puts out today). So we if we had M118s, we used the 4 groove military barrels for 1000 yard service rifle matches, If we could get the 180s we used the 6 Barnett (Douglas) barrels.
Again I don't know about the Kreiger barrels but if they are 4 groove, I would do some investigating before I made the choice. </div></div>
That's a very interesting story, for me having almost zero experience with M14's. I've shot Mex Match, M852, 118SB, 118LR, and 118NM; but, all from a 6 groove, 11.25 cut H-S Precision stainless 24 inch barrel. My conclusion was that the M118LR (pre pro lot A) was the most accurate factory loaded round I could take to the LR firing line. At 600 I could not distinguish between any of these rounds, except the SB, which prompted the notion for making up some Mex Match from those rounds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know much about the Kreiger barrels. I've been shooting the Douglas Barrels for over 30 years on my Super Match M1A and differant NG Match M14s.
The military use to have some med heavy match barrels they put on the NM M14s and M-21s. They were 4 grove barrels and shoot the 174s (M118) pretty good. Used them when I went to AMU Sniper School and when I taught Sniper Schools for the Guard.
BUT: When we started mexican matching with 168 SMKs and later when they came out with the M852, we found we needed the 6 groove Douglas Barrels. The 6 groove barrels didn't shoot the 174s as good as the 4 grooves did. Back then supply being what it was we never knew if we were getting M118 or M852s, or how much money I could squeese out of the state to by 168s. I had to issue two rifles to my State Rifle team, The 4 groove military match barrel for M118 and the 6 Groove Douglas (Barnett) barrels for 852 or Mexican Match.
This was before the M118LRs came out. For 1000 yard service rifle matches I used state funds to buy 180 SMKs (the older 180s, not the 180s Serria puts out today). So we if we had M118s, we used the 4 groove military barrels for 1000 yard service rifle matches, If we could get the 180s we used the 6 Barnett (Douglas) barrels.
Again I don't know about the Kreiger barrels but if they are 4 groove, I would do some investigating before I made the choice. </div></div>
That's a very interesting story, for me having almost zero experience with M14's. I've shot Mex Match, M852, 118SB, 118LR, and 118NM; but, all from a 6 groove, 11.25 cut H-S Precision stainless 24 inch barrel. My conclusion was that the M118LR (pre pro lot A) was the most accurate factory loaded round I could take to the LR firing line. At 600 I could not distinguish between any of these rounds, except the SB, which prompted the notion for making up some Mex Match from those rounds.
Re: M21 help
I've read from match shooters the SS vs CM barrels. The SS shoots good longer, to a point, then falls off more dramatically when it gets to the end of it's useful life. CM tends to lesson more gradually over the course of it's life. Kreiger claims there is no noticeable difference between their two, but I myself prefer the CM over the SS. Either way your not going to get any more total rounds of life out of either. I prefer the Kreiger 4 groove barrel with it's single cut rifling. While some factory 168gr loads I've ran with can be a little hit or miss on what is better with my 1/10 4 groove Kreiger. It does however seem to really like 175gr loadings. I built the rifle with the intent to shoot 175gr loads almost exclusively. So I'm happy it seems to favor them in all out accuracy.
I've read from match shooters the SS vs CM barrels. The SS shoots good longer, to a point, then falls off more dramatically when it gets to the end of it's useful life. CM tends to lesson more gradually over the course of it's life. Kreiger claims there is no noticeable difference between their two, but I myself prefer the CM over the SS. Either way your not going to get any more total rounds of life out of either. I prefer the Kreiger 4 groove barrel with it's single cut rifling. While some factory 168gr loads I've ran with can be a little hit or miss on what is better with my 1/10 4 groove Kreiger. It does however seem to really like 175gr loadings. I built the rifle with the intent to shoot 175gr loads almost exclusively. So I'm happy it seems to favor them in all out accuracy.
Re: M21 help
I thought the difference between the M21 and the supermatch was the M21 uses a "rear lugged receiver" and the super match did not.
I thought the difference between the M21 and the supermatch was the M21 uses a "rear lugged receiver" and the super match did not.
Re: M21 help
The M21 is a good platform for shooting. I have enough bolt and ARs.
The paint job on the bolt gun, I did around a year ago. I just started blending colors. I did one like that and another with more green in it for the spring and summer.
Maybe I will paint the M21 this color.LOL
The M21 is a good platform for shooting. I have enough bolt and ARs.
The paint job on the bolt gun, I did around a year ago. I just started blending colors. I did one like that and another with more green in it for the spring and summer.
Maybe I will paint the M21 this color.LOL
Re: M21 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the difference between the M21 and the supermatch was the M21 uses a "rear lugged receiver" and the super match did not. </div></div>
Factory direct Sai they both are rear lugged receivers. Same rifle really, just the M21 is stocked with an adj comb for optics use.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the difference between the M21 and the supermatch was the M21 uses a "rear lugged receiver" and the super match did not. </div></div>
Factory direct Sai they both are rear lugged receivers. Same rifle really, just the M21 is stocked with an adj comb for optics use.
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