Rifle Scopes M3A and 20 MOA base
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Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
m24,
Read this article, if you haven't already:
Leupold M3 BDC
The is some question as to whether you need a 20 MOA base at all on some iterations of the M3.
m24,
Read this article, if you haven't already:
Leupold M3 BDC
The is some question as to whether you need a 20 MOA base at all on some iterations of the M3.
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
M24,
I'm not doubting your success with this scope. I was only pointing out that some iterations of the M3 my not require a 20 moa base because of taper built in, and some do not have that taper and do require a 20 moa base to reach 1k. I don't know what scope you have, but M3A is a older designation.
What I am suggesting is, if you already have the scope, and it is not one of the new Mk4 M3's you may want to call Leupold to ascertain what you do have. That's all...
M24,
I'm not doubting your success with this scope. I was only pointing out that some iterations of the M3 my not require a 20 moa base because of taper built in, and some do not have that taper and do require a 20 moa base to reach 1k. I don't know what scope you have, but M3A is a older designation.
What I am suggesting is, if you already have the scope, and it is not one of the new Mk4 M3's you may want to call Leupold to ascertain what you do have. That's all...
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
I got ya and I appreciate the given advice.... I was looking for a fast (1 moa / 1/2 moa)accurate scope to put on a GAP .308 that I'm currently in the process of getting.
What other optics fill the bill??? I was hopeing that this would be alright- http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...524#Post1521524
thanks much,
kinnamon
I got ya and I appreciate the given advice.... I was looking for a fast (1 moa / 1/2 moa)accurate scope to put on a GAP .308 that I'm currently in the process of getting.
What other optics fill the bill??? I was hopeing that this would be alright- http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...524#Post1521524
thanks much,
kinnamon
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
M24,
Yes, that's a nice scope, especially with the Gen II reticle. Perhaps you can ask the owner about the taper?
I'm not a big fan of Leupold at present, so I'm the wrong person to ask about one, but the 10x40mm M3 is certainly one of the best they ever made.
Also IOR has 2.5x10x42mm with 1/2 MOA adjustments (and with 80 moa of adjustment) along with illumination in the same price neighborhood ($899. new). For a big bit more Nightforce has scopes with 1 MOA adjustments as well (and 110 moa of adjustment range).
Bob
M24,
Yes, that's a nice scope, especially with the Gen II reticle. Perhaps you can ask the owner about the taper?
I'm not a big fan of Leupold at present, so I'm the wrong person to ask about one, but the 10x40mm M3 is certainly one of the best they ever made.
Also IOR has 2.5x10x42mm with 1/2 MOA adjustments (and with 80 moa of adjustment) along with illumination in the same price neighborhood ($899. new). For a big bit more Nightforce has scopes with 1 MOA adjustments as well (and 110 moa of adjustment range).
Bob
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
A buddy recently put a M3A on a 20 MOA based rifle and we had to shim the rings to get him on at 100. Didn't have any other choice because it was a templer action with it's matching base and they don't sell those at Joes gunshop. He was leaving to go to a school 2 days later. I imagine you will want a 0 MOA base with the M3A. TJR
A buddy recently put a M3A on a 20 MOA based rifle and we had to shim the rings to get him on at 100. Didn't have any other choice because it was a templer action with it's matching base and they don't sell those at Joes gunshop. He was leaving to go to a school 2 days later. I imagine you will want a 0 MOA base with the M3A. TJR
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
Me and a buddy have the newer m3's w/ 20 moa bases; you can zero at a 100 yds, but it's on the very last click on both of them!
Me and a buddy have the newer m3's w/ 20 moa bases; you can zero at a 100 yds, but it's on the very last click on both of them!
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
A M3A and a Mk4 with M3 knobs are different animals. I too have a Mk4 with M3 knobs and have no trouble zeroing at 100 with plenty of elevation for 1000. The M3A with the covered short knobs(like you linked Kinneson) will need or be damned close to needing a 0 MOA base to zero at 100. If it does zero you will have no trouble getting to 1000 because you will be at the BOTTOM of your adjustment range,not the top. You should only need 40 MOA at most in elevation to reach 1000 with a .308. If you are bottomed out and have 70 MOA left up you're golden.
The task is getting it on at 100.
A M3A and a Mk4 with M3 knobs are different animals. I too have a Mk4 with M3 knobs and have no trouble zeroing at 100 with plenty of elevation for 1000. The M3A with the covered short knobs(like you linked Kinneson) will need or be damned close to needing a 0 MOA base to zero at 100. If it does zero you will have no trouble getting to 1000 because you will be at the BOTTOM of your adjustment range,not the top. You should only need 40 MOA at most in elevation to reach 1000 with a .308. If you are bottomed out and have 70 MOA left up you're golden.
The task is getting it on at 100.
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
That article is old and not uptodate. For the record Leupold doesn't make any Mark4 bases w/ out cant any longer! The M3 will work w/ 0 and 20 degrees cant, and the M3A will only work w/ 0 cant.
That article is old and not uptodate. For the record Leupold doesn't make any Mark4 bases w/ out cant any longer! The M3 will work w/ 0 and 20 degrees cant, and the M3A will only work w/ 0 cant.
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
Here's my situation.... I'll be running this optic on a GAP crusader with a 20 moa base. Which of the two (M3A or Mk 4) would work the best. The one I have linked to (above post) is really what I want with the gen II reticle.
Thanks for the advice guys,
Kinnamon
Here's my situation.... I'll be running this optic on a GAP crusader with a 20 moa base. Which of the two (M3A or Mk 4) would work the best. The one I have linked to (above post) is really what I want with the gen II reticle.
Thanks for the advice guys,
Kinnamon
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
Turk is right giving the criteria you set with the equipment,but if your heart is set on the M3A you linked why not switch to a 0 MOA base? You could still have the scope and rifle you want you just have to change the cheapest part of the system to get exactly what you want. Seem like a win/win to me.
I would rather have the MK4 with the M3 knobs over the M3A any way, but that is not what you asked.....and I have been known to be a bit bullheaded in my equipment choices too!
Turk is right giving the criteria you set with the equipment,but if your heart is set on the M3A you linked why not switch to a 0 MOA base? You could still have the scope and rifle you want you just have to change the cheapest part of the system to get exactly what you want. Seem like a win/win to me.
I would rather have the MK4 with the M3 knobs over the M3A any way, but that is not what you asked.....and I have been known to be a bit bullheaded in my equipment choices too!
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
I have a GAP built Templar with a 20MOA base, and have a M3A mounted on it. I had to shim the front ring to get a ZERO at 100 (referenced above by trobertson) I have also had a Mark4 LR/T M2 on the same rifle. No problems getting a ZERO at 100. I switched from the Mark4 to the M3A to have a more durable scope and it is. The M3A works great but there are a few things to consider. The BDC is for M118LR at 2650. I have to shoot, (department issue) 168 FGMM at 2770 fps, out of my rifle, so the BDC is off and there is no hash marks between the numbers on the turret, nor does it indicate MOA. The M3A also has a CCW rotation of the turret so if you do decide to have a custom one made be sure to make that perfectly clear or you will be very frustrated (been down that road). Another thing to think about is that your GAP rifle will shoot much tighter groups than 1MOA. So you may or may not get an exact ZERO at 100, could be off as much as 3/4 MOA or so. If I had it to do over again and had my heart set on a Leupold 10X, I would use the 10XM1. Just my .02 cents, hope it helps.
I have a GAP built Templar with a 20MOA base, and have a M3A mounted on it. I had to shim the front ring to get a ZERO at 100 (referenced above by trobertson) I have also had a Mark4 LR/T M2 on the same rifle. No problems getting a ZERO at 100. I switched from the Mark4 to the M3A to have a more durable scope and it is. The M3A works great but there are a few things to consider. The BDC is for M118LR at 2650. I have to shoot, (department issue) 168 FGMM at 2770 fps, out of my rifle, so the BDC is off and there is no hash marks between the numbers on the turret, nor does it indicate MOA. The M3A also has a CCW rotation of the turret so if you do decide to have a custom one made be sure to make that perfectly clear or you will be very frustrated (been down that road). Another thing to think about is that your GAP rifle will shoot much tighter groups than 1MOA. So you may or may not get an exact ZERO at 100, could be off as much as 3/4 MOA or so. If I had it to do over again and had my heart set on a Leupold 10X, I would use the 10XM1. Just my .02 cents, hope it helps.
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
I think if you happen to zero the rifle at 100 yds., and it was .25 MOA high then turn the turret down 1MOA it might just shoot .75 MOA Low. I could be wrong thought would not be the first time. Not that anyone would ever do that but the point is you don't have fine adjustment. JAA
I think if you happen to zero the rifle at 100 yds., and it was .25 MOA high then turn the turret down 1MOA it might just shoot .75 MOA Low. I could be wrong thought would not be the first time. Not that anyone would ever do that but the point is you don't have fine adjustment. JAA
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
So you would leave it at the first adjustment and be off by .25 moa; right???
So you would leave it at the first adjustment and be off by .25 moa; right???
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
Turk is correct though as you pointed out yourself that being off by .75 inches one way, you would only be .25 off the other way. Therefor .5 is the furthest you would be able to be off.
As for the OPs question I have a M3 (not a Mk4 with M3 knobs) mounted on a .308 of mine. Back when I had it on a sloped base I had to shim the front to be able to zero at 100, and then reaching 1,000 yards was no problem. Currently I have a 0moa base on the same rifle with the same scope and I can zero at 100 yards and still dial out to 1,000 yards with no problem.
Is it the best scope for the job? No, but my rifle started off with the intention of being "M24-ish" and judging by the OPs screenname he may be having the same intent.
Turk is correct though as you pointed out yourself that being off by .75 inches one way, you would only be .25 off the other way. Therefor .5 is the furthest you would be able to be off.
As for the OPs question I have a M3 (not a Mk4 with M3 knobs) mounted on a .308 of mine. Back when I had it on a sloped base I had to shim the front to be able to zero at 100, and then reaching 1,000 yards was no problem. Currently I have a 0moa base on the same rifle with the same scope and I can zero at 100 yards and still dial out to 1,000 yards with no problem.
Is it the best scope for the job? No, but my rifle started off with the intention of being "M24-ish" and judging by the OPs screenname he may be having the same intent.
Re: M3A and 20 MOA base
No worries; one of the few times I lucked in to being right! It only took someone 43 tries to explain it to me!
Here is mine scroll to the bottom for better pics: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...156#Post1490156
No worries; one of the few times I lucked in to being right! It only took someone 43 tries to explain it to me!
Here is mine scroll to the bottom for better pics: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...156#Post1490156
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