M40A3 Scope and NV mount

[ColRH7]

(This is a repost from Optics and Sighting Devices) Im hoping to build a clone M40a3 (ok, have it built by GAP) over the next year or so. I was looking at ways to outfit it and still be clone correct. Does anyone know the specifications of the Schmidt & Bender 3-12 they used to run on the USMC rifles? I know its a PMII, but are there different generations of PMIIs, do they run illumination, which reticle do they use (I would imagine Mil-Dot/P3)? Also, I have seen some A3s with the night vision rail up front. Was this something the Corps did while transitioning from the A3 to the A5? Thanks!

 

[Stevo86]

(This is a repost from Optics and Sighting Devices) Im hoping to build a clone M40a3 (ok, have it built by GAP) over the next year or so. I was looking at ways to outfit it and still be clone correct. Does anyone know the specifications of the Schmidt & Bender 3-12 they used to run on the USMC rifles? I know its a PMII, but are there different generations of PMIIs, do they run illumination, which reticle do they use (I would imagine Mil-Dot/P3)? Also, I have seen some A3s with the night vision rail up front. Was this something the Corps did while transitioning from the A3 to the A5? Thanks!

Pmii 3-12 mtc turret gen 2 mil dot, ccw, there were some double turn turrets issued too, It does have illumination. Pgw Nv Rail. DD Ross bottom metal. Schneider barrel, dd Ross 30 moa rail.

Rifle 2nd from right is what you’re asking about.

 

[Pinmaster]

1st Gen A3
No NV rail
GEN 2 mil dot reticle
Some gen 1's ran the Unertl from the A1s.

 

[Stevo86]

If you’re looking at a 1st gen…. 3rd from right

 

[Random Guy]

Does anyone know the specifications of the Schmidt & Bender 3-12 they used to run on the USMC rifles? I know its a PMII, but are there different generations of PMIIs, do they run illumination, which reticle do they use (I would imagine Mil-Dot/P3)?

Last time I checked, S&B only makes one version of the PMII 3-12x scope with counter clockwise (CCW) turrets, which I suspect was a USMC requirement. So the civilian version of that scope is what you’ll need. See attached for specific item number.
(removed link as wrong reticle references - refer to picture for correct part number and configuration).

Also, I have seen some A3s with the night vision rail up front. Was this something the Corps did while transitioning from the A3 to the A5? Thanks

Yes, according to a USMC MOS 2112 I spoke to years ago, a Change Order came into effect around 2007(I think) that called for M40A3s that were being serviced at PWS/Quantico (usually for a new barrel) - to have the milling done in the stock for the EGW NV rail. He also noted that this Change Order did not allow the 2112s to make any changes to the bottom metal, so the 'typical' transitional M40A3 would retain the DD Ross bottom metal. I can't recall what he said about the SureFire muzzle brake, but I think that was introduced in 2009 with the then-new M40A5, along with the procurement of the SureFire Suppressors. (I wish I would have bought one for my M40A5 replica a few years ago when they were available and relatively affordable...).

 

[Random Guy]

Rifle 2nd from right is what you’re asking about.

Thanks for that pic. It clearly shows the original "big hook" A4 stock versus the later profile A4 stocks. (bottom rear profile variation/nuance).

 

[Stevo86]

Thanks for that pic. It clearly shows the original "big hook" A4 stock versus the later profile A4 stocks. (bottom rear profile variation/nuance).

Yea I prefer the small hook. Just looks better IMO

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Here is a link to the exact USMC scopes that were recently sold by EuroOptic. There's a few different types of S&B M8541 SSDS 3-12x50 scopes that were used over the years. Asside from changing the DT elevation turret to an MTC elevation turret, all of the spec/characteristics of the various S&B M8541 stayed the same, it was the markings that were changed. The scope in the link below was the very last version of the S&B M8541 to be used, you'll notice how the markings are different than earlier scopes (these EuroOptic scopes are actual contract M8541 scopes that were never delivered to the Corps, since they recently switched to using NightForce Mil-Spec scopes).

My advice is to just find a civilian S&B with the same Gen 2 mildot reticle and the exact same specs that the EuroOptic contract scopes have. The difference between the civilian scope and military scopes is just the markings. Unless you're a high level collector looking to pay a few thousand dollars extra just for military markings, just stick with the cheaper civilian scopes. I just had a page with this scope open in my browser, so it was easy for me to post, I'm not going to hunt down a link to the proper civilian version of the scope. The EuroOptic link in a previous post on this page is incorrect, that scope has the wrong reticle, so look at this link instead:

https://www.eurooptic.com/Schmidt-B...I-USMC-Engraved-CCW-MTC-Riflescope-644-9.aspx

Since you asked about the night vision rail with the S&B 3-12x50 scopes, you're probably referring to the PGW EFR. There is also another option, the USO 360 mount, but that was used with the 4-16x42 S&B scopes. I think we're all on the same page in assuming that you wanted information on the PGW EFR, not the USO 360 mount.

When I got to my SSP in March 2008, our M40A3's had recently been returned to my unit. A few months prior all of the A3's were sent back to PWS to have the scopes converted from the DT elevation turret to the MTC elevation turret. The DT turrets were used from the time that S&B won the contract in 2006 to about late 2007/early 2008. In March of 2008, all of these A3's had the PGW EFR, so I assume that those might have been added when the scopes were swapped out. I'll have to ask my team leader what configuration his A3 was in before sending them back to PWS.

 

[USMCsean]

There were several versions of the M40A3. Which version are you looking to have made?

 

[ColRH7]

There were several versions of the M40A3. Which version are you looking to have made?

I'm not sure. I do not know the main differences between the versions

 

[nn8734]

I'm not sure. I do not know the main differences between the versions

If you're running a PGW EFR mount, you're building a transitional A3 with a M8541 scope (S&B 3-12x50, usmc turrets). Transitional A3 was identical to the A5 except for the brake and can (TrA3 had the std target crown).

 

[Skunk]