Am looking to swap out stock barrel on my pre64 Win M70 in 30-06 for a heavier target barrel as part of my M70 project. Anyone have a source for these?
- Thread starter Rainier42
- Start date
Re: M70 target barrels ...
Sir,
Are you looking for an original factory replacement barrel or just one of the same contour.
Original, very tough and most that were removed no longer shoot well, thus the removal.
Contour, It is a 24" straight taper. I can get you the specs on either end if you wish.
Mike Lau at TBA will put one on for you. Many use Douglas and I think that is where the USMC got their replacments.
Let me know if you need any more info.
Richard
Sir,
Are you looking for an original factory replacement barrel or just one of the same contour.
Original, very tough and most that were removed no longer shoot well, thus the removal.
Contour, It is a 24" straight taper. I can get you the specs on either end if you wish.
Mike Lau at TBA will put one on for you. Many use Douglas and I think that is where the USMC got their replacments.
Let me know if you need any more info.
Richard
Re: M70 target barrels ...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sir,
Are you looking for an original factory replacement barrel or just one of the same contour.
Original, very tough and most that were removed no longer shoot well, thus the removal.
Contour, It is a 24" straight taper. I can get you the specs on either end if you wish.
Mike Lau at TBA will put one on for you. Many use Douglas and I think that is where the USMC got their replacments.
Let me know if you need any more info.
Richard </div></div>
Great advise!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sir,
Are you looking for an original factory replacement barrel or just one of the same contour.
Original, very tough and most that were removed no longer shoot well, thus the removal.
Contour, It is a 24" straight taper. I can get you the specs on either end if you wish.
Mike Lau at TBA will put one on for you. Many use Douglas and I think that is where the USMC got their replacments.
Let me know if you need any more info.
Richard </div></div>
Great advise!!
Re: M70 target barrels ...
Richard,
Thanks for the info. Looking to replace the standard 30-06 barrel with a heavy target. Wanting to match as close as I can the M70 VN sniper used by the USMC. Any specs you might have on barrel contours would be great.
Thanks,
Rainier
Richard,
Thanks for the info. Looking to replace the standard 30-06 barrel with a heavy target. Wanting to match as close as I can the M70 VN sniper used by the USMC. Any specs you might have on barrel contours would be great.
Thanks,
Rainier
Re: M70 target barrels ...
lilja has the barrel measurments on their web page
lilja has the barrel measurments on their web page
Re: M70 target barrels ...
eodcam ... found measurements but didn't see anything for Win medium heavy target barrel.
eodcam ... found measurements but didn't see anything for Win medium heavy target barrel.
Re: M70 target barrels ...
I think the books are confusing folks. Winchester made the target model. They had the national match, which is a sporter contour and then they had the bull gun, which was pretty darn rare, I don't think it was made in enough numbers that Lilja would say " this is the contour used on pre 64 target models" if it was a bull gun contour,
The Military had to give them different names because they tested them all, and they were all "target" guns made for competition. So to cut back on their confusion they called the national match the target, the target the medium target and the bull a heavy target.
I'd call Lilja and ask to make sure im not talking out my a$$ and later today ill measure the muzzle on my target and see if it matches up.
I think the books are confusing folks. Winchester made the target model. They had the national match, which is a sporter contour and then they had the bull gun, which was pretty darn rare, I don't think it was made in enough numbers that Lilja would say " this is the contour used on pre 64 target models" if it was a bull gun contour,
The Military had to give them different names because they tested them all, and they were all "target" guns made for competition. So to cut back on their confusion they called the national match the target, the target the medium target and the bull a heavy target.
I'd call Lilja and ask to make sure im not talking out my a$$ and later today ill measure the muzzle on my target and see if it matches up.
Re: M70 target barrels ...
The National Match barrel is the one you need. The M70 sniper rifle, was nothing more than a off the shelf Match Rifle with a few items the USMC added.
Take time and go to the NRA National Firearms Museum website and type in M70 Sniper. They have some great picks of one.
Hope this helps.
Doc Les
The National Match barrel is the one you need. The M70 sniper rifle, was nothing more than a off the shelf Match Rifle with a few items the USMC added.
Take time and go to the NRA National Firearms Museum website and type in M70 Sniper. They have some great picks of one.
Hope this helps.
Doc Les
Re: M70 target barrels ...
The national match is a sporter contour, it was called this because the target in a marksman stock was too heavy for competition. So they used a sporter barrel in the marksman stock to make weight, hence the National Match name. This is also why you find targets in sporter stocks as opposed to marksman stocks (it wasn't just for sniping), it is lighter. If you refer to a pre 64 model 70 national match, it's sporter barrel in a marksman stock. It was a factory Winchester configuration.
The national match is a sporter contour, it was called this because the target in a marksman stock was too heavy for competition. So they used a sporter barrel in the marksman stock to make weight, hence the National Match name. This is also why you find targets in sporter stocks as opposed to marksman stocks (it wasn't just for sniping), it is lighter. If you refer to a pre 64 model 70 national match, it's sporter barrel in a marksman stock. It was a factory Winchester configuration.
Re: M70 target barrels ...
The dimensions for a standard .30-06 target Win. contour are:
1.140" x 2.000" (this includes the breech thread length) straight taper to .780 @ 24" finish.
We've made those barrels before. No big deal.
Keep in mind that some of the Win. target barrels had longer lengths etc....depending on caliber. Also the factory barrels tolerances can vary somewhat from one gun to the next. Back then the barrels for the most part where made on tracer lathes/manual machines. So they can vary a few thou. from one to the next.
Even now a days I've seen factory Rem. varmint barrels muzzle diameter range from .820-.850.
Later, Frank
Bartlein barrels
The dimensions for a standard .30-06 target Win. contour are:
1.140" x 2.000" (this includes the breech thread length) straight taper to .780 @ 24" finish.
We've made those barrels before. No big deal.
Keep in mind that some of the Win. target barrels had longer lengths etc....depending on caliber. Also the factory barrels tolerances can vary somewhat from one gun to the next. Back then the barrels for the most part where made on tracer lathes/manual machines. So they can vary a few thou. from one to the next.
Even now a days I've seen factory Rem. varmint barrels muzzle diameter range from .820-.850.
Later, Frank
Bartlein barrels
Re: M70 target barrels ...
Right on, Thanks Frank!
Right on, Thanks Frank!
Re: M70 target barrels ...
You guys are welcome!
You can run a heavier contour on the barrel if you want. You can put a 1.200 or 1.250 breech diameter on the gun and run it bigger at the muzzle as well. It's really personal preference.
but
If you want to duplicate the contour of the factory target the dimensions I listed earlier is what I would go with. It's pretty close and if a gun your picking up measures a tad different from a couple of feet away you will never see it.
The National Match Model 70's had the standard sporter contour barrel (which was said in a earlier post) with that dog leg hump for the rear sight dovetail. Also the front sight base was integrally machined as part of the barrel.
They measure also about 1.140 to 1.143 x 2.000 on the breech end and have the sporter contour with about a .595 - .600 muzzle and are 24" long as well.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
You guys are welcome!
You can run a heavier contour on the barrel if you want. You can put a 1.200 or 1.250 breech diameter on the gun and run it bigger at the muzzle as well. It's really personal preference.
but
If you want to duplicate the contour of the factory target the dimensions I listed earlier is what I would go with. It's pretty close and if a gun your picking up measures a tad different from a couple of feet away you will never see it.
The National Match Model 70's had the standard sporter contour barrel (which was said in a earlier post) with that dog leg hump for the rear sight dovetail. Also the front sight base was integrally machined as part of the barrel.
They measure also about 1.140 to 1.143 x 2.000 on the breech end and have the sporter contour with about a .595 - .600 muzzle and are 24" long as well.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: M70 target barrels ...
mr Frank, Do you folks build, contour the dog knot ,std barrels ? last non factory new dog knot barrel I saw was a Lothar Wather (sp.)? made a sub inch gun with factory ammo. very best
mr Frank, Do you folks build, contour the dog knot ,std barrels ? last non factory new dog knot barrel I saw was a Lothar Wather (sp.)? made a sub inch gun with factory ammo. very best
Re: M70 target barrels ...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cattle buyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> mr Frank, Do you folks build, contour the dog knot ,std barrels ? last non factory new dog knot barrel I saw was a Lothar Wather (sp.)? made a sub inch gun with factory ammo. very best </div></div>
Yes we can do them. It's like $35 extra for that contour for just the rear sight dog leg.
The front sight base is not integrally machined with the barrel. We could turn the muzzle end bigger and I can recommend a place that can machine the material away so you get the front sight ramp machined in then. Might charge extra for the turning of the front end etc...I have to measure the sight base as we might have to go to a larger diameter material to do it. If we have to I would just get a screw on front sight base and save you some $$$. I'll check tomorrow.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cattle buyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> mr Frank, Do you folks build, contour the dog knot ,std barrels ? last non factory new dog knot barrel I saw was a Lothar Wather (sp.)? made a sub inch gun with factory ammo. very best </div></div>
Yes we can do them. It's like $35 extra for that contour for just the rear sight dog leg.
The front sight base is not integrally machined with the barrel. We could turn the muzzle end bigger and I can recommend a place that can machine the material away so you get the front sight ramp machined in then. Might charge extra for the turning of the front end etc...I have to measure the sight base as we might have to go to a larger diameter material to do it. If we have to I would just get a screw on front sight base and save you some $$$. I'll check tomorrow.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: M70 target barrels ...
Mr Frank, I will give you a call, no dovetail for rear sight nor front sight, want to make her a 'Gopher Special'. very best
Mr Frank, I will give you a call, no dovetail for rear sight nor front sight, want to make her a 'Gopher Special'. very best
Re: M70 target barrels ...
To add to what Frank & EOD Cam have said:
"When the rifles arrived we were elated to find they were "sniper pattern" rifles. The rifles, with medium-heavy target weight barrels and sporter stocks, had been used by marine shooters in national competiyion in the early 1950's. At that time the NRA had placed a weight limit on the NRA match rifle which precluded use of both the target barrel & a target/marksman stock. The weight limit remained in effect until 1957". Quoted direct from Peter Senich's book, however have read the same regarding weight restrictions from a number of sources.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The dimensions for a standard .30-06 target Win. contour are:
1.140" x 2.000" (this includes the breech thread length) straight taper to .780 @ 24" finish.
We've made those barrels before. No big deal.
</div></div>
Hi Frank,
Do you (Bartlein) happen to have a distributor in Australia?
I would be interested in getting one of these barrels, would there be a custom programing/profiling charge for this Win medium/heavy contour?
To add to what Frank & EOD Cam have said:
"When the rifles arrived we were elated to find they were "sniper pattern" rifles. The rifles, with medium-heavy target weight barrels and sporter stocks, had been used by marine shooters in national competiyion in the early 1950's. At that time the NRA had placed a weight limit on the NRA match rifle which precluded use of both the target barrel & a target/marksman stock. The weight limit remained in effect until 1957". Quoted direct from Peter Senich's book, however have read the same regarding weight restrictions from a number of sources.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The dimensions for a standard .30-06 target Win. contour are:
1.140" x 2.000" (this includes the breech thread length) straight taper to .780 @ 24" finish.
We've made those barrels before. No big deal.
</div></div>
Hi Frank,
Do you (Bartlein) happen to have a distributor in Australia?
I would be interested in getting one of these barrels, would there be a custom programing/profiling charge for this Win medium/heavy contour?
Re: M70 target barrels ...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrianLara400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To add to what Frank & EOD Cam have said:
"When the rifles arrived we were elated to find they were "sniper pattern" rifles. The rifles, with medium-heavy target weight barrels and sporter stocks, had been used by marine shooters in national competiyion in the early 1950's. At that time the NRA had placed a weight limit on the NRA match rifle which precluded use of both the target barrel & a target/marksman stock. The weight limit remained in effect until 1957". Quoted direct from Peter Senich's book, however have read the same regarding weight restrictions from a number of sources.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The dimensions for a standard .30-06 target Win. contour are:
1.140" x 2.000" (this includes the breech thread length) straight taper to .780 @ 24" finish.
We've made those barrels before. No big deal.
</div></div>
Hi Frank,
Do you (Bartlein) happen to have a distributor in Australia?
I would be interested in getting one of these barrels, would there be a custom programing/profiling charge for this Win medium/heavy contour? </div></div>
No special charge for the contour work. No big deal on the Target type contour. If you wanted the sporter type National Match contour there is a custom charge for that but not for the:
1.140x 2.000 str. taper to .780 @ 24" finish target contour.
Importer in Australia? David Kerr at Progress Equipment. Ph. 08 9472 3062.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrianLara400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To add to what Frank & EOD Cam have said:
"When the rifles arrived we were elated to find they were "sniper pattern" rifles. The rifles, with medium-heavy target weight barrels and sporter stocks, had been used by marine shooters in national competiyion in the early 1950's. At that time the NRA had placed a weight limit on the NRA match rifle which precluded use of both the target barrel & a target/marksman stock. The weight limit remained in effect until 1957". Quoted direct from Peter Senich's book, however have read the same regarding weight restrictions from a number of sources.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The dimensions for a standard .30-06 target Win. contour are:
1.140" x 2.000" (this includes the breech thread length) straight taper to .780 @ 24" finish.
We've made those barrels before. No big deal.
</div></div>
Hi Frank,
Do you (Bartlein) happen to have a distributor in Australia?
I would be interested in getting one of these barrels, would there be a custom programing/profiling charge for this Win medium/heavy contour? </div></div>
No special charge for the contour work. No big deal on the Target type contour. If you wanted the sporter type National Match contour there is a custom charge for that but not for the:
1.140x 2.000 str. taper to .780 @ 24" finish target contour.
Importer in Australia? David Kerr at Progress Equipment. Ph. 08 9472 3062.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: M70 target barrels ...
Here is a Winchester factory Heavy barrel in a sporter stock complete with match sights. Reportedly purchased by a shooter from the Army at the National Matches in 1958:
Good luck
Jerry
Here is a Winchester factory Heavy barrel in a sporter stock complete with match sights. Reportedly purchased by a shooter from the Army at the National Matches in 1958:
Good luck
Jerry
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