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Made a video about subsonic 308

180 grains x (950 FPS squared) divided by 450240 (ballistic constant) is 360 foot pounds... .45 ACP and .45 Long Colt territory. That can still take hogs and whitetail at closer range and the tradeoff will be very quiet discreet hunting.
Yes but at that point i am going to grab my 45acp AR SBR. To me that would make more sense. And off the shelf ammo would already be subsonic and a whole lot less expensive. That's why for me I didn't see the point of 308 subs.
 
Yes but at that point i am going to grab my 45acp AR SBR. To me that would make more sense. And off the shelf ammo would already be subsonic and a whole lot less expensive. That's why for me I didn't see the point of 308 subs.


.308 sub would most likely be yet another oddball niche offering that will see a very brief spotlight coverage due to manufacturer advertising and hype, and then quickly fall to the very bottom of the page and corners of outdoor catalogs, until it is entirely dropped from production altogether. Besides, handloaders who wish to shoot a subsonic .308 for whatever reason can quickly whip up a batch in their workshops easily.
 
Well....you can always do 300blk suppressed and get better performance all around...quieter, more accurate, still 308 and is a lighter platform.

That being said, I handload the 200 grain Makers for 308 at just over 1000 fps and they are very accurate to 100 (+/-) from my BHO Origin and then not so much but they expand well down to 850 ish fps.
 
So I thought someone might get some info out of this.

I made a video shooting Subsonic .308.... I had no idea it drops like a rock and is basically useless.



Curious on others thoughts on sub 308? Can anyone actually think of a use for that round?

Thanks, I always appreciate a video.
 
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Well....you can always do 300blk suppressed and get better performance all around...quieter, more accurate, still 308 and is a lighter platform.

That being said, I handload the 200 grain Makers for 308 at just over 1000 fps and they are very accurate to 100 (+/-) from my BHO Origin and then not so much but they expand well down to 850 ish fps.


.300 BLK has already proven it's worth on the field and that cartridge is never going to get left by the wayside in the future. When I pick out a rifle platform and caliber for long term and even lifelong use, I take far-future forecasts of that caliber's continued availability and manufacturers' support in terms of components and reloading parts extremely seriously. The top US military calibers from 1905 to the present like .30-06, .308, etc are GUARANTEED to still be here and be supported as long as we are still using rifles. The king of the straight-walls, .45-70 is also guaranteed. .45-70 and .22 LR are the two longest continuously commercially produced cartridges in the world. Since 1873 for the former and 1859 for the latter, and still going strong at the top of their game.
 
Well....you can always do 300blk suppressed and get better performance all around...quieter, more accurate, still 308 and is a lighter platform.

That being said, I handload the 200 grain Makers for 308 at just over 1000 fps and they are very accurate to 100 (+/-) from my BHO Origin and then not so much but they expand well down to 850 ish fps.
He did mention already that at first, he could not see the use of 300 black out but later found why it is helpful.
 
"You're not gonna take out a deer with a 22lr, even if you could it would be inhumane."


Oh Boy....
Just get started shooting did ya?
You are welcome to do you. I have friends who have tracked blood trail from a deer hit with 6.5CM and never found the deer. I myself will stick with calibers that will for sure put the animal down in one shot like 30/06 etc. That is my opinion. Some people will hunt at 600 yards plus, again I would NOT do that as I don't view it as humane because I can't guarantee a kill shot at that distance.

Same for 22LR. Sure if it's the apocalypse and the world ended and you have a pile of 22LR on hand then use what you got. No one will ever be able to convince me it's humane to take a decent sized animal with 22LR. Just because it can't be done doesn't always mean you should. YMMV.
 
Well....you can always do 300blk suppressed and get better performance all around...quieter, more accurate, still 308 and is a lighter platform.

That being said, I handload the 200 grain Makers for 308 at just over 1000 fps and they are very accurate to 100 (+/-) from my BHO Origin and then not so much but they expand well down to 850 ish fps.
The Off shelf 308 subs I tried were looking about 3-4 moa but also keyholed a good number of rounds. To me it just didn't make more sense to spend more money than 300blk for less performance. Also this video was the result f some of us sitting around pondering....
 
.308 subs suppressed. almost as quiet as .22 subs suppressed, bolt guns anyway.
100yds' know yer dope

1693271671894.jpeg
 
That is a TON more power than a 22LR. That is 45acp territory, and we ALL know that is a manstopper. So not apples to oranges at all.


Precharged pneumatic air rifles are absolutely no joke at all. They have come from a long road of continuous evolution and some current day models can even push 340-380 grain polymer tips to power levels approaching a .45 caliber muzzleloader (traditional, non-inline and not "magnum" charges). There are also precharged pneumatic airbows that come in fully ready to shoot packages for under $400 complete with special airbow arrows, broadheads, lasers and optics that will put down ALL species of big game across the world up to 160 yards away...
 
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Same for 22LR. Sure if it's the apocalypse and the world ended and you have a pile of 22LR on hand then use what you got. No one will ever be able to convince me it's humane to take a decent sized animal with 22LR. Just because it can't be done doesn't always mean you should. YMMV.
If you can't shoot a deer in the brain with a 22 you shouldn't hunt squirrels with one either. Its inhumane to gut shoot a squirrel too.

I'm just making a point, I always do when someone starts talking about what is inhumane,That is incredibly subjective.
I absolutely intend to continue to "do me". Thanks for that.
 
Well, it’s that time of year again when the deer hunters crowd the public ranges to punch the edges off of paper plates. They’ll be here for for a month or so, pontificating about terminal ballistics, kinetic energy, and knock down power. With a straight face, they’ll tell you that a 6.5 CM doesn’t have enough ass to take a hill country doe, but you just aim “top of back” with a 270win out to 400.

Does a subsonic 308 win “make sense?” Maybe not in a world with 300BO and the ability to own as many firearms as one likes.

Is a subsonic 308win of limited utility. Certainly more limited by range than a super sonic 308.

Is it “useless?” No. But, it is definitely niche.
 
Well, it’s that time of year again when the deer hunters crowd the public ranges to punch the edges off of paper plates. They’ll be here for for a month or so, pontificating about terminal ballistics, kinetic energy, and knock down power. With a straight face, they’ll tell you that a 6.5 CM doesn’t have enough ass to take a hill country doe, but you just aim “top of back” with a 270win out to 400.

Does a subsonic 308 win “make sense?” Maybe not in a world with 300BO and the ability to own as many firearms as one likes.

Is a subsonic 308win of limited utility. Certainly more limited by range than a super sonic 308.

Is it “useless?” No. But, it is definitely niche.

If you don't have a blackout, its great way to get a kid into centerfire "big person" guns.
Improves fundamentals and confidence in a kid.

Oh....and if you can shoot well...itll kill the absolute shit out of a whitetail.
 
So I thought someone might get some info out of this.

I made a video shooting Subsonic .308.... I had no idea it drops like a rock and is basically useless.



Curious on others thoughts on sub 308? Can anyone actually think of a use for that round?

I love my 308 subs.

Wait till you find out you can load subsonic tracers.

What are they good for? That’s like asking what are titties good for…it’s just good fun
 
.308 subs suppressed. almost as quiet as .22 subs suppressed, bolt guns anyway.
100yds' know yer dope

View attachment 8214964

Titegroup?

I dont think any way in hell I would load 8.8g of titegroup in a 308 case. I would question its burn.

I would have to lookup my recipe for 308 subs but its trailboss and a 150g FMJBT... super cheap and super fun.
 
Titegroup?

I dont think any way in hell I would load 8.8g of titegroup in a 308 case. I would question its burn.

I would have to lookup my recipe for 308 subs but its trailboss and a 150g FMJBT... super cheap and super fun.

If it works, it works.
I can't count the number of pistol powder crazy loads I use to see in IHMSA competition, for bottlenecks.
Way back when, there were lots of pistol powder loads for bottlenecks in loading manuals.
 
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If you can't shoot a deer in the brain with a 22 you shouldn't hunt squirrels with one either. Its inhumane to gut shoot a squirrel too.

I'm just making a point, I always do when someone starts talking about what is inhumane,That is incredibly subjective.
I absolutely intend to continue to "do me". Thanks for that.
At least one person I knew who hunted squirrels preferred head shots in order to capitalize on the meat.
 
If it works, it works.
I can't count the number of pistol powder crazy loads I use to see in IHMSA competition, for bottlenecks.
Way back when, there were lots of pistol powder loads for bottlenecks in loading manuals.

no im not arguing that it works, ive just had odd results loading stuff where case fill is real low and the primer flashes over the top and the burn is inconsistent. velocities all over the map.

Ive got some 203g coated cast lead that I bought for 300blk, I might try to work up some kind of 308 load for them, but only problem is I only have a semi auto 308 anymore so...

Ive shot a bunch of 300blk with H110 out of my 300blk bolt gun suppressed and thats a scary quiet round. You can hear the firing pin hit the primer and the bullet hit the berm.
 
I keep hearingbits the same as a .45 ACP

Except subsonic ballistics are a completely different creature to supersonic exterior ballistics.
On a subsonic round, the most efficient shape of the bullet is inverted.
Again...its not simple as, "all you need is a foety fibe".
 
People wound deer with 30-06, 270 win, 30-30, 45-70, 12 ga, and cartridges both bigger and smaller than all of them. About the only sure way to kill one is with an automobile. But, the DNR looks down on that. This debate is as ludicrous as the recent thread about killing cattle with a 22lr.
 
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When I was living in the north east, I was invited to deer hunt in upstate NY- around the Finger lakes. This is a driven hunt, and a buddy and I were tasked with “driving” a patch of heavy cover while 3 or 4 others posted up in the clearing and waited. Well, we weren’t 30% through the cover when WWiii broke out in front of us. As it turns out, a buck has broken cover and ran the gauntlet through those 3 or 4 hunters. One of them swore he hit the deer- the biggest buck he had ever seen. We spent the better part of the day looking for that deer. They found him the next day, with 4 12 ga slugs in him. He was quite alert, though no longer able to crawl away. A 5th shotgun slug put him away. As an addendum, you could completely cover the antlers with a ball cap.
 
"You're not gonna take out a deer with a 22lr, even if you could it would be inhumane."


Oh Boy....
Just get started shooting did ya?
More deer have been shot with a .22 LR than all the bolt guns put together... just ask any game warden what the poachers have used since the turn of the last century.

And I've trained with .308 Subsonic. Very light loads. And they have their uses at short range in certain circumstances. And if you know your dope, you hit your target.

Not saying it's the best of anything... but it is dooable and useful.

And a .22 will kill just about anything. Not everything. But just about.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
People wound deer with 30-06, 270 win, 30-30, 45-70, 12 ga, and cartridges both bigger and smaller than all of them. About the only sure way to kill one is with an automobile. But, the DNR looks down on that. This debate is as ludicrous as the recent thread about killing cattle with a 22lr.
And Elmer Fudd, I mean, Elmer Keith wounded elk with a .35 Whelen. Bullet placement counts.
 
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I am still trying to figure out a valid reason for having subsonic .308 , other than a curiousity. I mean, I know why people are using straight walls. They may be in a location that does not allow the smaller and faster bullets that can go farther. A .450 BM can drop 5 feet in 300 yards and runs kinda slow. But will definitely do the job. Saw a nice kill shot on a deer at about 100 yards in a heavily wooded area. It did the job, because of bullet placement.

But if 308 is dropping 18 inches in 100 yards and even keyholing, then what use could it be used for?

I don't know.
1693347737573.jpeg
 
When I was living in the north east, I was invited to deer hunt in upstate NY- around the Finger lakes. This is a driven hunt, and a buddy and I were tasked with “driving” a patch of heavy cover while 3 or 4 others posted up in the clearing and waited. Well, we weren’t 30% through the cover when WWiii broke out in front of us. As it turns out, a buck has broken cover and ran the gauntlet through those 3 or 4 hunters. One of them swore he hit the deer- the biggest buck he had ever seen. We spent the better part of the day looking for that deer. They found him the next day, with 4 12 ga slugs in him. He was quite alert, though no longer able to crawl away. A 5th shotgun slug put him away. As an addendum, you could completely cover the antlers with a ball cap.
Lemme see I got this straight.....
Allegedly 3 or 4 standers each manage score at least one hit(I'm assuming they were in the vitals yes) on a running deer with 12ga slugs yet the deer manages to get away apparently without leaving a blood trail and y'all wander around all willy nilly looking for it most of the day without finding it but manage to miraculously happen upon it the next day still alive and quite alert but unable to move. That about right?
Screenshot_20230829-182354.png
 
But if 308 is dropping 18 inches in 100 yards

How sub is your sub?

In the intro of the video I understood him to say 9 mils drop at 200 yds ... 18" at 200 yds ... not 100 yds

I didn't catch the barrel length or twist on the OP rifle ... most factory subs are "rated" for a specific velocity with a specific barrel length and a specific twist ... change the length and/or the twist then muzzle velocity varies

Typically virtually EVERYTHING subsonic drops about 8" +/- 1 at 100 yards ... 308 ... 45 ... 45-70 ... small aerodynamic rocks

There are some videos of a couple guys our there taking game at 200 ... 300 ... even 400 yds with .458 subs and you can see the bullet flying through the air like it was launched from a catapult.
 
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Lemme see I got this straight.....
Allegedly 3 or 4 standers each manage score at least one hit(I'm assuming they were in the vitals yes) on a running deer with 12ga slugs yet the deer manages to get away apparently without leaving a blood trail and y'all wander around all willy nilly looking for it most of the day without finding it but manage to miraculously happen upon it the next day still alive and quite alert but unable to move. That about right?
View attachment 8215549
No, that’s part of the point. I think it had been hit in 3 of 4 legs and maybe gut shot as well (it’s been close to 20 years). “Looking for the deer” was mostly comprised of the shooter and his son in law speeding around the property on a pair of quads. They eventually decided to “let him lay” and we went to hunt another property. The deer was found about 30 yards (across a tree line) from where he was shot- in a place the shooter ans SiL swore they scoured.

This experience galvanized, in this southern boys mind, the belief that the only safe place in New England during general Gun season was somewhere else. I only hunted archery season from them on- and only from 30 feet up a tree.

Know your gun and your cartridge. A big fat bullet screaming at 3000 fps doesn’t make up for shitty shooting.
 
No, that’s part of the point. I think it had been hit in 3 of 4 legs and maybe gut shot as well (it’s been close to 20 years). “Looking for the deer” was mostly comprised of the shooter and his son in law speeding around the property on a pair of quads. They eventually decided to “let him lay” and we went to hunt another property. The deer was found about 30 yards (across a tree line) from where he was shot- in a place the shooter ans SiL swore they scoured.

This experience galvanized, in this southern boys mind, the belief that the only safe place in New England during general Gun season was somewhere else. I only hunted archery season from them on- and only from 30 feet up a tree.

Know your gun and your cartridge. A big fat bullet screaming at 3000 fps doesn’t make up for shitty shooting.
I figured there was more to it than you first let on, just wanted to rattle your cage a bit.
 
How sub is your sub?

In the intro of the video I understood him to say 9 mils drop at 200 yds ... 18" at 200 yds ... not 100 yds

I didn't catch the barrel length or twist on the OP rifle ... most factory subs are "rated" for a specific velocity with a specific barrel length and a specific twist ... change the length and/or the twist then muzzle velocity varies

Typically virtually EVERYTHING subsonic drops about 8" +/- 1 at 100 yards ... 308 ... 45 ... 45-70 ... small aerodynamic rocks

There are some videos of a couple guys our there taking game at 200 ... 300 ... even 400 yds with .458 subs and you can see the bullet flying through the air like it was launched from a catapult.
I must have misheard it, then.