Wanting to know if anyone has used the Magpul MBUS sights. I need a set of irons for my AR. I have seen good reviews on the Troy Ind. sights, but the $250.00 price is steep. I know that you get what you pay for. I tried searching for any reviews on here and was not able to find any. Any input is greatly appreciated.
- Thread starter Ronnie Bell
- Start date
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Lets see here.... do you want to trust your life to a metal sighting system or a plastic sighting system. Yes polymers can be used for some parts but I just cant being myself to truyst my life to plastic sights.
Lets see here.... do you want to trust your life to a metal sighting system or a plastic sighting system. Yes polymers can be used for some parts but I just cant being myself to truyst my life to plastic sights.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
I was not aware that the MBUS were polymer. That makes my decision pretty clear!!
I was not aware that the MBUS were polymer. That makes my decision pretty clear!!
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
I'd be interested in a review as well.
I'm not worried that they are polymer, most things hi tech these days are, from cars to space craft. Just depends how they hold up.
Now as a Troy owner, I can tell you that on a weapon that might save my life, I'd use them for sure.
I'm thinking of getting a set of the Magpuls for a match rifle, where I'd use an optic of some sort and would like to have some backup sights for if the optic crapped in the middle of a stage and I could QD it and finish the stage with irons. That's where the $80 set could make more sense for me than the $250 set.
I'd be interested in a review as well.
I'm not worried that they are polymer, most things hi tech these days are, from cars to space craft. Just depends how they hold up.
Now as a Troy owner, I can tell you that on a weapon that might save my life, I'd use them for sure.
I'm thinking of getting a set of the Magpuls for a match rifle, where I'd use an optic of some sort and would like to have some backup sights for if the optic crapped in the middle of a stage and I could QD it and finish the stage with irons. That's where the $80 set could make more sense for me than the $250 set.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
It's better to save your pennies and get something that works than something that might not.
If you're not an operator and you're shooting iron maidens or paper, then the MBUS is GTG.
It's better to save your pennies and get something that works than something that might not.
If you're not an operator and you're shooting iron maidens or paper, then the MBUS is GTG.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets see here.... do you want to trust your life to a metal sighting system or a plastic sighting system. Yes polymers can be used for some parts but I just cant being myself to truyst my life to plastic sights. </div></div>
Exactly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets see here.... do you want to trust your life to a metal sighting system or a plastic sighting system. Yes polymers can be used for some parts but I just cant being myself to truyst my life to plastic sights. </div></div>
Exactly.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
The receiver of the handgun I bet my life on every day is made of polymer. I plan on picking up a set for my next build.
The receiver of the handgun I bet my life on every day is made of polymer. I plan on picking up a set for my next build.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The receiver of the handgun I bet my life on every day is made of polymer. I plan on picking up a set for my next build. </div></div>
Word. Do you really think Magpul puts stuff out on the market that they haven't fully tested? I have never been dissapointed in anything Magpul has put out on the market. All their products have worked 100%
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The receiver of the handgun I bet my life on every day is made of polymer. I plan on picking up a set for my next build. </div></div>
Word. Do you really think Magpul puts stuff out on the market that they haven't fully tested? I have never been dissapointed in anything Magpul has put out on the market. All their products have worked 100%
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
If you drop your rifle on plastic sights, the sights will take a much greater impact than the frame on a Glock if it's dropped. I love Glocks personally, but hate their plastic sights. I dropped my first G17 years ago and damaged the rear sight, and also pushed it half way out of the dove-tail. A polymer frame is not the same thing as polymer sights.
If you drop your rifle on plastic sights, the sights will take a much greater impact than the frame on a Glock if it's dropped. I love Glocks personally, but hate their plastic sights. I dropped my first G17 years ago and damaged the rear sight, and also pushed it half way out of the dove-tail. A polymer frame is not the same thing as polymer sights.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Troy is the only way to go.
Troy is the only way to go.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
The MBUS has some interesting features..it is spring loaded and deploys at the touch of a button, which happens to be on either side, and can default to either aperture. However, they call it a MBUS (magpul back-up sight) instead of a BUIS (back up iron sight) because it is <span style="font-style: italic">plastic</span>.
The MBUS has some interesting features..it is spring loaded and deploys at the touch of a button, which happens to be on either side, and can default to either aperture. However, they call it a MBUS (magpul back-up sight) instead of a BUIS (back up iron sight) because it is <span style="font-style: italic">plastic</span>.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
MagPul has lost credibility with me lately. Did you know the front MBUS sight cannot be mounted on a gas block because it will melt?
Did anyone else see their new alliance with that Chinese company who is now producing "MagPul authorized" Air-Soft components?
Which generation Pmag are we up to these days? Gen 4 or Gen 5?
It appears to me that in their efforts to rake in as much cash as possible, they'll consider making anything out of plastic.
As a long-time engineer in the injection-molding business, I will say hats off to their marketing department. Molded plastic parts are literally dirt-cheap to produce, yet they have us believing they should compete with stamped and machined aluminum.
Yes, I'm sure I've rattled a few hornet nests with these opinions, so please proceed with the character defamation.
MagPul has lost credibility with me lately. Did you know the front MBUS sight cannot be mounted on a gas block because it will melt?
Did anyone else see their new alliance with that Chinese company who is now producing "MagPul authorized" Air-Soft components?
Which generation Pmag are we up to these days? Gen 4 or Gen 5?
It appears to me that in their efforts to rake in as much cash as possible, they'll consider making anything out of plastic.
As a long-time engineer in the injection-molding business, I will say hats off to their marketing department. Molded plastic parts are literally dirt-cheap to produce, yet they have us believing they should compete with stamped and machined aluminum.
Yes, I'm sure I've rattled a few hornet nests with these opinions, so please proceed with the character defamation.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
They just might be on gen 4 for their pmags, but they've improved them each time. I'll take a pmag over usgi mags anyday for the simple fact that I can't stand the sound of metal mags rubbing together.
I have a lot of Magpul items and have not had one malfunction or break. It's all apples and oranges.
They just might be on gen 4 for their pmags, but they've improved them each time. I'll take a pmag over usgi mags anyday for the simple fact that I can't stand the sound of metal mags rubbing together.
I have a lot of Magpul items and have not had one malfunction or break. It's all apples and oranges.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Don't know what you use your rifle for, but if your life may depend on it, spring for the Troy and don't look back.
The MBUS would be interesting if they were under $50 for the set, and I'd probably have a pair to stick on a 22LR or something, but they are priced too high for what they are.
Don't know what you use your rifle for, but if your life may depend on it, spring for the Troy and don't look back.
The MBUS would be interesting if they were under $50 for the set, and I'd probably have a pair to stick on a 22LR or something, but they are priced too high for what they are.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Everything I have used from Magpul is top notch. All I am saying is I am going to give them a try before rendering an opinion on them.
And that will include dropping the rifle on them.
Everything I have used from Magpul is top notch. All I am saying is I am going to give them a try before rendering an opinion on them.
And that will include dropping the rifle on them.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MagPul has lost credibility with me lately. Did you know the front MBUS sight cannot be mounted on a gas block because it will melt?
It appears to me that in their efforts to rake in as much cash as possible, they'll consider making anything out of plastic.
</div></div>
No character defamation...LOL But MagPul isn't a Non Profit business, therefore raking in as much cash as possible would be a key point of being in business.
Vote with your wallet folks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MagPul has lost credibility with me lately. Did you know the front MBUS sight cannot be mounted on a gas block because it will melt?
It appears to me that in their efforts to rake in as much cash as possible, they'll consider making anything out of plastic.
</div></div>
No character defamation...LOL But MagPul isn't a Non Profit business, therefore raking in as much cash as possible would be a key point of being in business.
Vote with your wallet folks.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything I have used from Magpul is top notch. All I am saying is I am going to give them a try before rendering an opinion on them.
And that will include dropping the rifle on them. </div></div>
I agree they make some realy good products. I think the MBUS is a great alternative for a range gun on a budget, I just wouldn't trust them on a work/defensive weapon. I look forward to your review.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything I have used from Magpul is top notch. All I am saying is I am going to give them a try before rendering an opinion on them.
And that will include dropping the rifle on them. </div></div>
I agree they make some realy good products. I think the MBUS is a great alternative for a range gun on a budget, I just wouldn't trust them on a work/defensive weapon. I look forward to your review.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
LMT fixed, you can use it as a hammer!
LMT fixed, you can use it as a hammer!
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Aint that the truth.
I run a LMT BUIS on my duty rifle. It's a tank. If you are going fixed though, the LaRue BUIS may be a better option.
Aint that the truth.
I run a LMT BUIS on my duty rifle. It's a tank. If you are going fixed though, the LaRue BUIS may be a better option.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No character defamation...LOL But MagPul isn't a Non Profit business, therefore raking in as much cash as possible would be a key point of being in business.
Vote with your wallet folks. </div></div>
I understand it is a business, and believe me their business model is spectacular based on what I know about injection molding.
I guess I'm too much of an idealist, but as a business supplying weapons parts, it seems that raising the bar (or even holding it up) should be the first priority. A lot of MagPul products do that, but some of their stuff just seems like a sell-out.
I'm definitely voting with my wallet.
And I'd love to hear the results of a this drop test on an MBUS sight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No character defamation...LOL But MagPul isn't a Non Profit business, therefore raking in as much cash as possible would be a key point of being in business.
Vote with your wallet folks. </div></div>
I understand it is a business, and believe me their business model is spectacular based on what I know about injection molding.
I guess I'm too much of an idealist, but as a business supplying weapons parts, it seems that raising the bar (or even holding it up) should be the first priority. A lot of MagPul products do that, but some of their stuff just seems like a sell-out.
I'm definitely voting with my wallet.
And I'd love to hear the results of a this drop test on an MBUS sight.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aint that the truth.
I run a LMT BUIS on my duty rifle. It's a tank. If you are going fixed though, the LaRue BUIS may be a better option. </div></div>
I'm not a big fan of the LMT rear.
Maybe I just got a bum one, but in my experience, they have WAY too much side to side wobble in the A2 aperture.
In my experience the most usable bulletproof, simple and durable BUIS is the KAC 300M
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aint that the truth.
I run a LMT BUIS on my duty rifle. It's a tank. If you are going fixed though, the LaRue BUIS may be a better option. </div></div>
I'm not a big fan of the LMT rear.
Maybe I just got a bum one, but in my experience, they have WAY too much side to side wobble in the A2 aperture.
In my experience the most usable bulletproof, simple and durable BUIS is the KAC 300M
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my experience the most usable bulletproof, simple and durable BUIS is the KAC 300M</div></div>
I've lost the plastic insert before in my KAC 300 sight
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my experience the most usable bulletproof, simple and durable BUIS is the KAC 300M</div></div>
I've lost the plastic insert before in my KAC 300 sight
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my experience the most usable bulletproof, simple and durable BUIS is the KAC 300M</div></div>
I've lost the plastic insert before in my KAC 300 sight </div></div>
Fuck the insert
If you are running it on a carbine, it should be more than sufficient with the big peep for anything you need it for.
If you are looking for something more precise, the KAC 600m fits the bill perfectly.
I prefer KAC BUIS on all of my ARs. They are durable, snag free and the newer versions are priced very similarly to the Troy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my experience the most usable bulletproof, simple and durable BUIS is the KAC 300M</div></div>
I've lost the plastic insert before in my KAC 300 sight
Fuck the insert
If you are running it on a carbine, it should be more than sufficient with the big peep for anything you need it for.
If you are looking for something more precise, the KAC 600m fits the bill perfectly.
I prefer KAC BUIS on all of my ARs. They are durable, snag free and the newer versions are priced very similarly to the Troy.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Just to clear something up,
Magpul did not partner up with some Chinese company.
Magpul started "Magpul Asia" which produces airsoft stuff called "PTS", or Professional Training and Simulation.
A lot of what you see out of China is knock-offs, not even real PTS stuff.
The MBUS sights were geared toward people who don't need an expensive set of sights.
Magpul doesn't have a real strong marketing campaign, for many years, it's been youtube videos, forums, and word of mouth, (and SHOT of course)
Justin
Just to clear something up,
Magpul did not partner up with some Chinese company.
Magpul started "Magpul Asia" which produces airsoft stuff called "PTS", or Professional Training and Simulation.
A lot of what you see out of China is knock-offs, not even real PTS stuff.
The MBUS sights were geared toward people who don't need an expensive set of sights.
Magpul doesn't have a real strong marketing campaign, for many years, it's been youtube videos, forums, and word of mouth, (and SHOT of course)
Justin
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Troy. Loyal to my 10th Mountain friend who works there!
Troy. Loyal to my 10th Mountain friend who works there!
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><snip>
Magpul doesn't have a real strong marketing campaign, for many years, it's been youtube videos, forums, and word of mouth, (and SHOT of course)
Justin </div></div>
MagPul is AWESOME at marketing .... they suck fucking corn hole at bringing product to market, and keeping up with demand.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><snip>
Magpul doesn't have a real strong marketing campaign, for many years, it's been youtube videos, forums, and word of mouth, (and SHOT of course)
Justin </div></div>
MagPul is AWESOME at marketing .... they suck fucking corn hole at bringing product to market, and keeping up with demand.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Bumping up an old thread here. I am building an SPR, and while I really like the look of the Troy sights, the Magpul sights are priced really nice. I trust the quality of them, and am trying to keep this in context- they are backup sights. I would see springing for the more expensive sights if you were using them as your primary sighting system, but as a backup for an optic that may go down, I think that they are a really good value and would serve their purpose well. Am I missing something here?
Bumping up an old thread here. I am building an SPR, and while I really like the look of the Troy sights, the Magpul sights are priced really nice. I trust the quality of them, and am trying to keep this in context- they are backup sights. I would see springing for the more expensive sights if you were using them as your primary sighting system, but as a backup for an optic that may go down, I think that they are a really good value and would serve their purpose well. Am I missing something here?
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
bm11, I think you're on the right track, I have a set sitting right here. At first glance they are definitely cheaper looking and feel wise than steel irons, but again they are simply back ups. Will they get the job done? Absolutely. I think you'd also be hard pressed to find a faster deploying backup sight. A simple bam bam with gross motor skill gets them flipped up in less than a second. For those who want to co-witness, then you obviously don't have the need. You're getting what you pay for, an inexpensive alternative to other back ups on the market.
bm11, I think you're on the right track, I have a set sitting right here. At first glance they are definitely cheaper looking and feel wise than steel irons, but again they are simply back ups. Will they get the job done? Absolutely. I think you'd also be hard pressed to find a faster deploying backup sight. A simple bam bam with gross motor skill gets them flipped up in less than a second. For those who want to co-witness, then you obviously don't have the need. You're getting what you pay for, an inexpensive alternative to other back ups on the market.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
I can't see running the MBUS as a primary sight, but it's fine for a BUIS. It seems plenty durable, and has stood up to plenty of drops and banging in and out of a patrol car.
Anyone who says they won't trust their lives to polymer, send me all of your PMAGs, Glocks, HKs, etc.
I can't see running the MBUS as a primary sight, but it's fine for a BUIS. It seems plenty durable, and has stood up to plenty of drops and banging in and out of a patrol car.
Anyone who says they won't trust their lives to polymer, send me all of your PMAGs, Glocks, HKs, etc.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Here's what I tell my customers:
If these sights are going on a plinking gun or range toy, the MBUS is fine. If you ever think you may need to depend on your rifle for protection of home or family, get a set of metal sights, preferably Troys.
I have seen MBUS sights snap where Troy (and other high quality metal sights) would not. I particularly like the di-optic aperture Troy sights because the 0-300m sight is a diamond and not a circle. This makes centering the front post alot easier/faster.
A good alternative is the LMT detachable front and the tactical rear. Unlike the folding Troy's, these are fixed but in my opinion, equally bombproof.
Give me a call or shoot me a PM and I'll hook you up on a set of Troys.
Here's what I tell my customers:
If these sights are going on a plinking gun or range toy, the MBUS is fine. If you ever think you may need to depend on your rifle for protection of home or family, get a set of metal sights, preferably Troys.
I have seen MBUS sights snap where Troy (and other high quality metal sights) would not. I particularly like the di-optic aperture Troy sights because the 0-300m sight is a diamond and not a circle. This makes centering the front post alot easier/faster.
A good alternative is the LMT detachable front and the tactical rear. Unlike the folding Troy's, these are fixed but in my opinion, equally bombproof.
Give me a call or shoot me a PM and I'll hook you up on a set of Troys.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MidwestPX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If these sights are going on a plinking gun or range toy, the MBUS is fine. If you ever think you may need to depend on your rifle for protection of home or family, get a set of metal sights, preferably Troys.</div></div> +1
I have removed ALL of my Magpul sights from my weapons, all of which wear TROY sights now.
They are find for recreation...NOT GOOD for hard use.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MidwestPX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If these sights are going on a plinking gun or range toy, the MBUS is fine. If you ever think you may need to depend on your rifle for protection of home or family, get a set of metal sights, preferably Troys.</div></div> +1
I have removed ALL of my Magpul sights from my weapons, all of which wear TROY sights now.
They are find for recreation...NOT GOOD for hard use.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
+1 For Troy. Plastic should be part of a sight.
+1 For Troy. Plastic should be part of a sight.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
I want a Troy DOA fixed rear ....... I am building an all irons rig, I dont need the folding capability.
I want a Troy DOA fixed rear ....... I am building an all irons rig, I dont need the folding capability.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Magpul makes some good stuff, but I don't want a plastic sight for backup to a steel or aluminum scope. The way I look at it, and traumatic event that is enough of a whack to ruin my ACOG, SS, or NF, is likely to destroy a plastic sight in the same incident. Probably overthinking it, but that's what I think.
Magpul makes some good stuff, but I don't want a plastic sight for backup to a steel or aluminum scope. The way I look at it, and traumatic event that is enough of a whack to ruin my ACOG, SS, or NF, is likely to destroy a plastic sight in the same incident. Probably overthinking it, but that's what I think.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
I have both troy and GG&G. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend both. The GG&G severed me well as a back-up on my 04-05 tour. They are I believe the lowest profile rear BUIS on the market.
EIther one are GTG
I have both troy and GG&G. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend both. The GG&G severed me well as a back-up on my 04-05 tour. They are I believe the lowest profile rear BUIS on the market.
EIther one are GTG
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
I have a buddy that went to Iraq a couple times and he melted the MBUS front sight mounted on the gas block.
As for me, I dont think I will have much problem with the MBUS, as my AR is mostly for hunting/rec shooting
I have a buddy that went to Iraq a couple times and he melted the MBUS front sight mounted on the gas block.
As for me, I dont think I will have much problem with the MBUS, as my AR is mostly for hunting/rec shooting
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Good choice, I have Troy BUIS and they are durable and stay sighted.
Good choice, I have Troy BUIS and they are durable and stay sighted.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Troys are nice. I have a magpul mbus rear behind my eotech, and it works just fine. I have never been dissatisfied with any magpul product. For $50 bucks the mbus is a great choice for someone how is looking for a good bus.
Troys are nice. I have a magpul mbus rear behind my eotech, and it works just fine. I have never been dissatisfied with any magpul product. For $50 bucks the mbus is a great choice for someone how is looking for a good bus.
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
Depends on the intended use of the buis.
Fighting rifle=Troy's
Fun range gun= mbus
Depends on the intended use of the buis.
Fighting rifle=Troy's
Fun range gun= mbus
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Troy is the only way to go.
</div></div>
+1
PP out
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Troy is the only way to go.
</div></div>
+1
PP out
Re: Magpul MBUS or Troy BUIS
I love my Troy sights, they stay true thats for sure. I have a very good friend that tried the Magpul route and neither of us were happy with them. I am a huge Magpul fan and have alot of their products, but I dont like the polymer sights. On my friends rifel they got knocked off while riding four wheelers and hunting pigs, luckily my Troys were still on the money.
I love my Troy sights, they stay true thats for sure. I have a very good friend that tried the Magpul route and neither of us were happy with them. I am a huge Magpul fan and have alot of their products, but I dont like the polymer sights. On my friends rifel they got knocked off while riding four wheelers and hunting pigs, luckily my Troys were still on the money.
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