whats the best way to maintain focus through out a string of fire. i shot a match this past weekend, and did pretty decent, but i had trouble focusing and getting comfortable. i had about a 2" group for 15shots at 300 including all fliers on the 3rd string. i had a group about this size or smaller on the first string. but the middle string i couldnt get myself comfortable or focus properly. out of 450-45x i ended up with a 443-20x using the mr-63f target shooting a factory savage f-class 6br. i still think it shoots better than me, but i'm learning. on oct. 4th there is a 600yd match i'm going to go to, to see how i do. any i deas on maintaining focus and slowing my pace down would be great.
Advanced Marksmanship maintaining focus
- Thread starter goldy1
- Start date
Re: maintaining focus
That's for you to figure out on your own, and the game is gonna change drastically when you go from 300 to 600 as now you have to work the wind as well.
I can tell you this much though - just like when I used to row a single shell and I had to be able to visualize all elements of the stroke, you have to be able to visualize everything that you are going to do and how you are going to do it correctly. You must be able to do this away from the rifle, with your eyes closed, inside your head. You consciously go over what you are going to do and at the same time repeat to yourself a self talk that instills confidence in your ability to execute what you are about to embark upon. You focus solely on the performance and ignore the outcome. The outcome (score) takes care of itself; it is a by-product of your performance.
Other than the element of time management for the overall string, your focus is on each and every shot. You learn from the last shot - your call for where it should come up on the target based on your execution of the shot, a correction for the wind - those are the only reasons you look at what happened with a shot that has left the barrel. Otherwise your focus is solely on the round in the chamber.
When on the rifle, you must feel confident that you can hold that X all day, then execute that last bit of pressure (not PULL) on the trigger to make the shot go. When you are sitting on that X ring with the crosshairs, body still, confident that your training coupled with a focused performance means you DESERVE a good score at the end of the day, say to yourself "PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE" as you increase the press on the trigger, confident that you can hold that X all day (at least until you run out of oxygen in your blood and must start over).
You must be confident in your ability to set up and execute. You have an unlimited amount of 10s and X's in you. You must believe that. Why? Because with that confidence and belief in yourself you are now free to turn down the bad shots. Have no doubt - you WILL BE presented with bad shots. The only thing in question is whether or not you TAKE the bad shots. There must be no urgency on getting that shot out of the barrel as you have an unlimited number of 10s and Xs in you and your ability to call on your skills to deliver them you have confidence in.
Sure, there are times when you must shoot fast to deal with wind conditions, but even then that does not alter HOW you perform when you are on the rifle executing one of those unlimited number of 10s and X's inside you.
The art of outdoor long range shooting is a unique blend of high situational awareness combined with the ability to block most all of the stimuli out when on the rifle executing the shot. In certain conditions while you are on the rifle in that totally focused confident zone there is still a part of you that is trying to pick up a change in conditions that dictates a no-shoot situation for the wind clicks or hold point on the rifle. For that day in that stage of the match on that range, know what you are trying to pay attention to that is your indicator and nothing else. Maybe it is the sudden silence of other shooters that have stopped shooting. Maybe it is the appearance or the disappearance of a wind flag in your periferral vision. Maybe it is the appearance of the mirage in your scope. Maybe it is the way the wind feels on your face or neck. Maybe the sound of the wind in the trees. For us Service Rifle shooters, light is another factor we are constantly aware of. Clouds going over, angle of the sun to the target, lit target/dark sights, vice versa, any combination of two, thin clouds versus thick. Eventually it will become most all of those things, and you'll develop the ability to be totally focused on the execution yet still able to catch the condition change indicators.
The last part is the true art of long range shooting.
That's for you to figure out on your own, and the game is gonna change drastically when you go from 300 to 600 as now you have to work the wind as well.
I can tell you this much though - just like when I used to row a single shell and I had to be able to visualize all elements of the stroke, you have to be able to visualize everything that you are going to do and how you are going to do it correctly. You must be able to do this away from the rifle, with your eyes closed, inside your head. You consciously go over what you are going to do and at the same time repeat to yourself a self talk that instills confidence in your ability to execute what you are about to embark upon. You focus solely on the performance and ignore the outcome. The outcome (score) takes care of itself; it is a by-product of your performance.
Other than the element of time management for the overall string, your focus is on each and every shot. You learn from the last shot - your call for where it should come up on the target based on your execution of the shot, a correction for the wind - those are the only reasons you look at what happened with a shot that has left the barrel. Otherwise your focus is solely on the round in the chamber.
When on the rifle, you must feel confident that you can hold that X all day, then execute that last bit of pressure (not PULL) on the trigger to make the shot go. When you are sitting on that X ring with the crosshairs, body still, confident that your training coupled with a focused performance means you DESERVE a good score at the end of the day, say to yourself "PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE" as you increase the press on the trigger, confident that you can hold that X all day (at least until you run out of oxygen in your blood and must start over).
You must be confident in your ability to set up and execute. You have an unlimited amount of 10s and X's in you. You must believe that. Why? Because with that confidence and belief in yourself you are now free to turn down the bad shots. Have no doubt - you WILL BE presented with bad shots. The only thing in question is whether or not you TAKE the bad shots. There must be no urgency on getting that shot out of the barrel as you have an unlimited number of 10s and Xs in you and your ability to call on your skills to deliver them you have confidence in.
Sure, there are times when you must shoot fast to deal with wind conditions, but even then that does not alter HOW you perform when you are on the rifle executing one of those unlimited number of 10s and X's inside you.
The art of outdoor long range shooting is a unique blend of high situational awareness combined with the ability to block most all of the stimuli out when on the rifle executing the shot. In certain conditions while you are on the rifle in that totally focused confident zone there is still a part of you that is trying to pick up a change in conditions that dictates a no-shoot situation for the wind clicks or hold point on the rifle. For that day in that stage of the match on that range, know what you are trying to pay attention to that is your indicator and nothing else. Maybe it is the sudden silence of other shooters that have stopped shooting. Maybe it is the appearance or the disappearance of a wind flag in your periferral vision. Maybe it is the appearance of the mirage in your scope. Maybe it is the way the wind feels on your face or neck. Maybe the sound of the wind in the trees. For us Service Rifle shooters, light is another factor we are constantly aware of. Clouds going over, angle of the sun to the target, lit target/dark sights, vice versa, any combination of two, thin clouds versus thick. Eventually it will become most all of those things, and you'll develop the ability to be totally focused on the execution yet still able to catch the condition change indicators.
The last part is the true art of long range shooting.
Re: maintaining focus
I'm not sure you're talkin' about focus on the sight, or perhaps, concentration on the firing task. At any rate, what you need is a process and procedure which assures the position is re-built consistently for every shot.
Too often, the shooter will attempt to establish a relationship between the target and reticle, with such concentration on the matter, that regard for muscular relaxation, stock-weld, NPA and other concepts important to good shooting are completely overlooked. The result is a combination of parallax error and unpredictable recoil, which, collectively, precludes the shooter from maintaning recognition for, and control over where the barrel is pointed as the bullet clears the bore, even though perspective of aim was, seemingly, certain.
Make the position consistent by perfecting your relationship with the gun and ground to a molecular level-before adjusting NPA to get the sight picture you're after.
BTW, while writing this post, 9H offered advice which alluded to mental management, which, I'm just as certain as 9H, helps results in any arena of competition.
I'm not sure you're talkin' about focus on the sight, or perhaps, concentration on the firing task. At any rate, what you need is a process and procedure which assures the position is re-built consistently for every shot.
Too often, the shooter will attempt to establish a relationship between the target and reticle, with such concentration on the matter, that regard for muscular relaxation, stock-weld, NPA and other concepts important to good shooting are completely overlooked. The result is a combination of parallax error and unpredictable recoil, which, collectively, precludes the shooter from maintaning recognition for, and control over where the barrel is pointed as the bullet clears the bore, even though perspective of aim was, seemingly, certain.
Make the position consistent by perfecting your relationship with the gun and ground to a molecular level-before adjusting NPA to get the sight picture you're after.
BTW, while writing this post, 9H offered advice which alluded to mental management, which, I'm just as certain as 9H, helps results in any arena of competition.
Re: maintaining focus
Concentration. Many things to concentrate upon. It's not possible taken as individual tasks. The mind simply can't handle that many separate tasks at once.
The functioning approach takes the individual tasks off the front burner (or mind) and put the ones which can be so assimilated onto the back burner (the muscle memory).
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Muscle memory comes from (literally) mindless repetition</span>. Muscle memory comes from repetition of the task with conscious effort, until the task becomes seamless and available as a largely subconscious mind/body implement. You practice a thing until you cannot go on, and then you go on and continue practicing that same thing until you can do it subconsciously, until you cannot do it wrong without deliberate effort. Then, and only then, do you move on to the next task and repeat the mission.
Then finally, you practice the tasks in tandem, so the sequence becomes a single one, performed as a reflex.
Which tasks? All the tasks but sight picture and trigger manipulation. Those two deserve/require conscious attention, and fall within the capacity limits of the average consciousness.
Finally, accept the 'wobble zone'. Accept the fact that the target and sights cannot be muscled into a stable, locked relationship; but will seldom/never steady up beyiond a nebulous and passing acquaintance.
The best approach is not to manhandle the piece, but to practice a natural Point Of Aim that allows as much relaxation as possible, centering the target within the wobble zone. The more effective the NPA and the more relaxed the shooter, the smaller the wobble zone will shrink.
In essence, the shooter enters a trance/fugue state, where the only factors in existence are the target and the sequnce preceding, through, and following the shot.
Not only can this be done, it becomes natural and commonplace among the better shooters.
Greg
Concentration. Many things to concentrate upon. It's not possible taken as individual tasks. The mind simply can't handle that many separate tasks at once.
The functioning approach takes the individual tasks off the front burner (or mind) and put the ones which can be so assimilated onto the back burner (the muscle memory).
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Muscle memory comes from (literally) mindless repetition</span>. Muscle memory comes from repetition of the task with conscious effort, until the task becomes seamless and available as a largely subconscious mind/body implement. You practice a thing until you cannot go on, and then you go on and continue practicing that same thing until you can do it subconsciously, until you cannot do it wrong without deliberate effort. Then, and only then, do you move on to the next task and repeat the mission.
Then finally, you practice the tasks in tandem, so the sequence becomes a single one, performed as a reflex.
Which tasks? All the tasks but sight picture and trigger manipulation. Those two deserve/require conscious attention, and fall within the capacity limits of the average consciousness.
Finally, accept the 'wobble zone'. Accept the fact that the target and sights cannot be muscled into a stable, locked relationship; but will seldom/never steady up beyiond a nebulous and passing acquaintance.
The best approach is not to manhandle the piece, but to practice a natural Point Of Aim that allows as much relaxation as possible, centering the target within the wobble zone. The more effective the NPA and the more relaxed the shooter, the smaller the wobble zone will shrink.
In essence, the shooter enters a trance/fugue state, where the only factors in existence are the target and the sequnce preceding, through, and following the shot.
Not only can this be done, it becomes natural and commonplace among the better shooters.
Greg
Re: maintaining focus
"Muscle memory comes from (literally) mindless repetition."
Could not DISagree more with this statement.
You train your body through conscious effort to teach it the right way to do things. Nothing mindless about it.
"Muscle memory comes from (literally) mindless repetition."
Could not DISagree more with this statement.
You train your body through conscious effort to teach it the right way to do things. Nothing mindless about it.
Re: maintaining focus
Semantics.
Yes, of course, conscious effort in the training phase, with the goal of allowing the process to become rote, allowing better concentration upon fewer, the higher priority, factors.
I will rephrase to accommodate.
Greg
Semantics.
Yes, of course, conscious effort in the training phase, with the goal of allowing the process to become rote, allowing better concentration upon fewer, the higher priority, factors.
I will rephrase to accommodate.
Greg
Re: maintaining focus
Since results will usually reveal what notions are indeed important to good shooting, I'm inclined to listen to all who have proven their notions about it in competition.
Since results will usually reveal what notions are indeed important to good shooting, I'm inclined to listen to all who have proven their notions about it in competition.
Re: maintaining focus
I've been finding that visualization of what your doing comes first, then proper application in dry firing, then back it up with confirmation in live fire. Visualizing it first helps immensely as your mentally prepared to apply all aspects of proper technique as a single concept instead of a bunch of scattered, "I need to do X" thoughts. Dry fire repetition applying that mental picture helps solidify it through familiarity and muscle memory. Live fire confirms you are doing it right and helps identify weak areas in it. This applies to just general practice as well as what you do in the seconds before and inbetween shots.
I've been finding that visualization of what your doing comes first, then proper application in dry firing, then back it up with confirmation in live fire. Visualizing it first helps immensely as your mentally prepared to apply all aspects of proper technique as a single concept instead of a bunch of scattered, "I need to do X" thoughts. Dry fire repetition applying that mental picture helps solidify it through familiarity and muscle memory. Live fire confirms you are doing it right and helps identify weak areas in it. This applies to just general practice as well as what you do in the seconds before and inbetween shots.
Re: maintaining focus
I would have to agree with 9H, Greg and Serling on the information they have brought to lite. I would also like to suggest that it may be a simple problem such as improper breathing technique. Take a couple of deep breaths before you start your string and again when changing your mags, it helps to clear the eyes by adding oxigen and relaxztion. Make sure you are breathing between each shot and not trying to hold your breath. My .02
I would have to agree with 9H, Greg and Serling on the information they have brought to lite. I would also like to suggest that it may be a simple problem such as improper breathing technique. Take a couple of deep breaths before you start your string and again when changing your mags, it helps to clear the eyes by adding oxigen and relaxztion. Make sure you are breathing between each shot and not trying to hold your breath. My .02
Re: maintaining focus
from reading all the outstanding replys, i've been thinking and i can tell from the match that when the groups were better i found it easier to focus on hte task at hand and make the minor adjustments to get the next round where i need it. but during the middle string i wasnt shooting as good. it was harder to focus and to remain slow and steady. one other wierd thing i dont know if its me of the rifle but after each string, we would score the targets and the barrel would cool. then when i would fire the first round it would impact about a fum min left.
from reading all the outstanding replys, i've been thinking and i can tell from the match that when the groups were better i found it easier to focus on hte task at hand and make the minor adjustments to get the next round where i need it. but during the middle string i wasnt shooting as good. it was harder to focus and to remain slow and steady. one other wierd thing i dont know if its me of the rifle but after each string, we would score the targets and the barrel would cool. then when i would fire the first round it would impact about a fum min left.
Re: maintaining focus
When I tested for my blue belt in Karate Sensei stopped class and lined EVERYONE up behind me and began to test me.
Most times myself and anyone else would be nervous but I went into my bubble, the same one I use at a match to block out rifle fire and focus...Part of it stemmed from confidence - I was getting confident in Karate, and I am already and have been confident in shooting so I focus to block everyone out so I can do better than I did last time.
You just put yourself there and block everyone else out - I've had people talk to me when shooting and never hear a word...
The only one's that are hard to block out is the rude people with muzzle brakes that don't do something to block the shock wave, and M-16's - the side shock hits my eye and feels like someone tapping me in the eye- those are harder to block...
When I tested for my blue belt in Karate Sensei stopped class and lined EVERYONE up behind me and began to test me.
Most times myself and anyone else would be nervous but I went into my bubble, the same one I use at a match to block out rifle fire and focus...Part of it stemmed from confidence - I was getting confident in Karate, and I am already and have been confident in shooting so I focus to block everyone out so I can do better than I did last time.
You just put yourself there and block everyone else out - I've had people talk to me when shooting and never hear a word...
The only one's that are hard to block out is the rude people with muzzle brakes that don't do something to block the shock wave, and M-16's - the side shock hits my eye and feels like someone tapping me in the eye- those are harder to block...
Re: maintaining focus
Dude you whine like a true bolt gunner
All but one of my SR uppers run no A2 flash hider - does that still give you an excuse for your bad shots and getting smoked by a rat gunner? 
Dude you whine like a true bolt gunner
Re: maintaining focus
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are, you gotta like that.
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are, you gotta like that.
Re: maintaining focus
Comfortable position and natural point of aim. Repeat a few thousand times.
When you're off you'll be able to call it before the round hits the target.
When you're on the only thing you won't know until the targets come up is your X-count.
Comfortable position and natural point of aim. Repeat a few thousand times.
When you're off you'll be able to call it before the round hits the target.
When you're on the only thing you won't know until the targets come up is your X-count.
Re: maintaining focus
besides shooting F-class, i'm getting a match rifle set up from my soon to be Ex-wife rifle. it already had the match sights and was prepped, but its pink and purple so its being stripped and repainted. it will be my first time shooting a match rifle outside the m-16. in my last f-class match i had alot of trouble in the middle string with everything it seemed. my groups were all over ended that string with a 147-4x. i need to figure out how to slow my pace down and get comfortable faster and settle down. i could only truly acct for a few of the fliers by being in the middle of my slow steady pull and flintching when the guy next to me fires.
besides shooting F-class, i'm getting a match rifle set up from my soon to be Ex-wife rifle. it already had the match sights and was prepped, but its pink and purple so its being stripped and repainted. it will be my first time shooting a match rifle outside the m-16. in my last f-class match i had alot of trouble in the middle string with everything it seemed. my groups were all over ended that string with a 147-4x. i need to figure out how to slow my pace down and get comfortable faster and settle down. i could only truly acct for a few of the fliers by being in the middle of my slow steady pull and flintching when the guy next to me fires.
Re: maintaining focus
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">443-20x is a dam good score, I would say your focus was pretty good.</div></div>
Darn good score, perhaps, but, compared to what? Remember, scores are relative. They provide a means to test and celebrate the performance of an individual from the collective body under similar stress. It's the reason for NRA classifications: unclassified Master, Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, Master, and High Master, which give some clarification to the shooter's relative ability.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">443-20x is a dam good score, I would say your focus was pretty good.</div></div>
Darn good score, perhaps, but, compared to what? Remember, scores are relative. They provide a means to test and celebrate the performance of an individual from the collective body under similar stress. It's the reason for NRA classifications: unclassified Master, Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, Master, and High Master, which give some clarification to the shooter's relative ability.
Re: maintaining focus
That is a 98.3% Skip and a HM per the F-Class classifications (98%+ = HM).
Darned good shooting by goldy1 even for 300 yds considering the 1/2 MOA F-Class X ring.
That is a 98.3% Skip and a HM per the F-Class classifications (98%+ = HM).
Darned good shooting by goldy1 even for 300 yds considering the 1/2 MOA F-Class X ring.
Re: maintaining focus
Congratulations!
Congratulations!
Re: maintaining focus
I dont know if you already do this but it really helps me to have a checklist to go through before each shot. 1) I am correctly behind the rifle 2) I dont have any unintended flexing of muscles...ect, its going to be different for everyone. When I go through the checklist I tend to focus on each step and am then more focused on the actual shot. This works well but is intense and after about 2-3 strings I need to stop thinking for a minute and relax. Hope this helps.
I dont know if you already do this but it really helps me to have a checklist to go through before each shot. 1) I am correctly behind the rifle 2) I dont have any unintended flexing of muscles...ect, its going to be different for everyone. When I go through the checklist I tend to focus on each step and am then more focused on the actual shot. This works well but is intense and after about 2-3 strings I need to stop thinking for a minute and relax. Hope this helps.
Re: maintaining focus
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: goldy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i had trouble focusing and getting comfortable.</div></div>
Sounds like you did dang good for not being comfortable
. Some things that help me.....
If your stock is riding too high your neck will start to hurt. Try to get your scope as low to the dirt as you can by having the lowest scope mounts using the shortest bag you can find. This will also let you lower the height of your bipod.
Make sure your length of pull is right for you in the prone position. When you set your scope up do it in the prone position. You don't want to be crawling all over the rifle to get your eye relief right during a match.
Dry firing practice will confirm all of your adjustments. Dry fire just like you would fire a match. Set up a timer and take your normal time between shots. Remember, if you get a good set of conditions you won't want to roll off the rifle until you run your string. So don't dry fire any less than 20 shots in 15 minutes or so. All depends on how fast your puller is.
If you are laying on rough ground move your matt around to see if you can get off of a hump.
If you stare into the scope for without a break you will get a headache, try and learn to at least keep both eyes open until you are ready to fire.
Don't be afraid to roll off the rifle for a minute or so to collect yourself.
Hope this helps........and keep up that good shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: goldy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i had trouble focusing and getting comfortable.</div></div>
Sounds like you did dang good for not being comfortable
If your stock is riding too high your neck will start to hurt. Try to get your scope as low to the dirt as you can by having the lowest scope mounts using the shortest bag you can find. This will also let you lower the height of your bipod.
Make sure your length of pull is right for you in the prone position. When you set your scope up do it in the prone position. You don't want to be crawling all over the rifle to get your eye relief right during a match.
Dry firing practice will confirm all of your adjustments. Dry fire just like you would fire a match. Set up a timer and take your normal time between shots. Remember, if you get a good set of conditions you won't want to roll off the rifle until you run your string. So don't dry fire any less than 20 shots in 15 minutes or so. All depends on how fast your puller is.
If you are laying on rough ground move your matt around to see if you can get off of a hump.
If you stare into the scope for without a break you will get a headache, try and learn to at least keep both eyes open until you are ready to fire.
Don't be afraid to roll off the rifle for a minute or so to collect yourself.
Hope this helps........and keep up that good shooting.
Re: maintaining focus
Hello, this months 300yd match was not too bad. Kinda like last time out. i shot my first clean on the second string i shot a 150-9x if i was able to do that the first string i could have won the whole match. Ended up with a 442-19x. i've been working on getting settled into position faster so i can focus. next month i'm planning on shooting an iron sighted 308, so i'll be needing to get back to basics with that. any good tips for that one?
Hello, this months 300yd match was not too bad. Kinda like last time out. i shot my first clean on the second string i shot a 150-9x if i was able to do that the first string i could have won the whole match. Ended up with a 442-19x. i've been working on getting settled into position faster so i can focus. next month i'm planning on shooting an iron sighted 308, so i'll be needing to get back to basics with that. any good tips for that one?
Re: maintaining focus
Great shooting goldy1! Be careful - shooting cleans is quite addicting.
Great shooting goldy1! Be careful - shooting cleans is quite addicting.
Re: maintaining focus
the gentleman that won the match shot a 447-24x on the mr-63 target. He was shooting 6x47 formed from 22-250 brass, i some type of tube gun, I just had the factory savage f-class 6br still. before too long i should get my 6brx back from SSS for f-class. then i'll see what it will do. i've been practicing/dry firing with the iron sighted rifle in the evenings. aiming at a 1/4" dot on the wall about 20ft away. eventually i'll be able to get to the range and see what i can do. might be about 3 weeks, might be going to washington for a couple weeks.
the gentleman that won the match shot a 447-24x on the mr-63 target. He was shooting 6x47 formed from 22-250 brass, i some type of tube gun, I just had the factory savage f-class 6br still. before too long i should get my 6brx back from SSS for f-class. then i'll see what it will do. i've been practicing/dry firing with the iron sighted rifle in the evenings. aiming at a 1/4" dot on the wall about 20ft away. eventually i'll be able to get to the range and see what i can do. might be about 3 weeks, might be going to washington for a couple weeks.
Re: maintaining focus
update..I shot in a two day match here in CA the first day was a 3x600 match with 20 shots each string. i ended up with a 568-13X, 4th for that day. there were two guys who shot cleans at 600 (200-13X & 200- 12X) I was impressed. the second day we shot 300, 500, and 600yds 15 shots at each range. i ended up with a 426-11X and 2nd place. over all i won the match by default because not everyone showed up the scond day. I feel like im getting somewhat better, but wind killed me at 600.
update..I shot in a two day match here in CA the first day was a 3x600 match with 20 shots each string. i ended up with a 568-13X, 4th for that day. there were two guys who shot cleans at 600 (200-13X & 200- 12X) I was impressed. the second day we shot 300, 500, and 600yds 15 shots at each range. i ended up with a 426-11X and 2nd place. over all i won the match by default because not everyone showed up the scond day. I feel like im getting somewhat better, but wind killed me at 600.
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