Well I was watching the show last nite Modern Sniper Marines and saw where the Scouts are switching from a M40A5 24" 1-12 barrel to a M40A5 20" 1-10 twist barrel with surpressors in the near future. Thoughts on this?
- Thread starter bdh308
- Start date
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Go ask LL...
He will wonder why it has taken so long.
Go ask LL...
He will wonder why it has taken so long.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
it's about time. now if they could only switch to a different caliber...
it's about time. now if they could only switch to a different caliber...
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Heavier projectiles, closer ranges, more urban environments.
The mission drives the equipment.
Heavier projectiles, closer ranges, more urban environments.
The mission drives the equipment.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Id have to agree with LoneWolf. Especially now that the Scouts are running in teams of 5 to 6 snipers. The insertions are closer as with there tactics. Its bad enough that they have to carry 150#s or more of equipment including a rifle with 24" barrel. I say amen.
Id have to agree with LoneWolf. Especially now that the Scouts are running in teams of 5 to 6 snipers. The insertions are closer as with there tactics. Its bad enough that they have to carry 150#s or more of equipment including a rifle with 24" barrel. I say amen.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Don't believe everything you see on tv. The Marine Corps just started building the M40A5 for the SureFire suppressor.
I cannot imagine them switching those barrels anytime soon after they already started threading them all for suppressors.
It took almost 30 years to get a new scope for the rifle. The Darpa rifle never happened the MK11MOD 0 never really happened I cannot imagine them switching barrels anytime soon.
I also talked to my buddies on Monday that just left the school house and they didn't mention anything about this.
Don't believe everything you see on tv. The Marine Corps just started building the M40A5 for the SureFire suppressor.
I cannot imagine them switching those barrels anytime soon after they already started threading them all for suppressors.
It took almost 30 years to get a new scope for the rifle. The Darpa rifle never happened the MK11MOD 0 never really happened I cannot imagine them switching barrels anytime soon.
I also talked to my buddies on Monday that just left the school house and they didn't mention anything about this.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Well the way that commander talked last nite he said next yr is when they were switching. Course I have know idea when that paticular show was actually shot. LoneWolf may have the inside scoop since I believe he was a Scout. Lonewolf?
Well the way that commander talked last nite he said next yr is when they were switching. Course I have know idea when that paticular show was actually shot. LoneWolf may have the inside scoop since I believe he was a Scout. Lonewolf?
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
I just got out 2 years ago and my buddies just left the sniper schoolhouse this year. They know nothing about this and they are still working in sniper platoons currently.
I just got out 2 years ago and my buddies just left the sniper schoolhouse this year. They know nothing about this and they are still working in sniper platoons currently.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
did Big Green help? cough:sarcasm:
http://www.remingtoncustom.com/TargetTactical_xm3.aspx
looks like it could fit the bill nicely for "out & about on the town"
did Big Green help? cough:sarcasm:
http://www.remingtoncustom.com/TargetTactical_xm3.aspx
looks like it could fit the bill nicely for "out & about on the town"
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
nope big green didnt do shit...that XM3 was an IBA rifle that was donated to the Marine Corps, ive used them....they suck, they theory is great but that particular rifle blows
nope big green didnt do shit...that XM3 was an IBA rifle that was donated to the Marine Corps, ive used them....they suck, they theory is great but that particular rifle blows
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
the deficiencies with the XM3 are this
There was 1 rifle out of 4 we had that would hold 1 MOA or better. They would constantly throw shots. They didnt handle as well as one would think, they were heavy as hell. Why i dont know, im not a gun plumber, im just a shooter. Plus if you wanted one from IBA they are like 6K plus, yeah blow me on that. The one that shot MOA or better was barely MOA think .8s-.9s granited this is good enough for a sniper rifle, but no were near the claim that came out of the Chandlers mouths personally to us when we visited their shop. Trigger work was terrible, bedding job was terrible.
the deficiencies with the XM3 are this
There was 1 rifle out of 4 we had that would hold 1 MOA or better. They would constantly throw shots. They didnt handle as well as one would think, they were heavy as hell. Why i dont know, im not a gun plumber, im just a shooter. Plus if you wanted one from IBA they are like 6K plus, yeah blow me on that. The one that shot MOA or better was barely MOA think .8s-.9s granited this is good enough for a sniper rifle, but no were near the claim that came out of the Chandlers mouths personally to us when we visited their shop. Trigger work was terrible, bedding job was terrible.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
I have spent the last week shooting a M40A5 from the Marine inventory that had a new barrel (89) when we started so it was recently rebarreled. The barrel was 24 inches and fitted for the provided Surefire suppressor. I heard nothing about a different barrel length comong out soon.
We also had an XM-3 and the M40 shot much better.
I have spent the last week shooting a M40A5 from the Marine inventory that had a new barrel (89) when we started so it was recently rebarreled. The barrel was 24 inches and fitted for the provided Surefire suppressor. I heard nothing about a different barrel length comong out soon.
We also had an XM-3 and the M40 shot much better.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Deadly, are you blaming the concept or the "shop" that put them together? Do the "from Remington's front doors" M40s shoot much better? got some #'s to compare? I'm curious as to how much trust the Corp puts in a product w/o some massaging & being "brought up to spec"?
Deadly, are you blaming the concept or the "shop" that put them together? Do the "from Remington's front doors" M40s shoot much better? got some #'s to compare? I'm curious as to how much trust the Corp puts in a product w/o some massaging & being "brought up to spec"?
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxpower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Deadly, are you blaming the concept or the "shop" that put them together? Do the "from Remington's front doors" M40s shoot much better? got some #'s to compare? I'm curious as to how much trust the Corp puts in a product w/o some massaging & being "brought up to spec"? </div></div>
Im not blaming the concept or idea, i love the idea....im blaming the shitty "shop" if you want to call it that. Remington doesnt make jack shit for the Marine Corps other than the actions, thats it, they dont have any part to do with putting it together. Ill tell you this the 40s will flat out shoot. But then again every precision weapon that is used by the Corps isnt an off the shelf bought gun, its put together with higher end components in the Precision Weapons shop....and the Barrett isnt a precision weapon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxpower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Deadly, are you blaming the concept or the "shop" that put them together? Do the "from Remington's front doors" M40s shoot much better? got some #'s to compare? I'm curious as to how much trust the Corp puts in a product w/o some massaging & being "brought up to spec"? </div></div>
Im not blaming the concept or idea, i love the idea....im blaming the shitty "shop" if you want to call it that. Remington doesnt make jack shit for the Marine Corps other than the actions, thats it, they dont have any part to do with putting it together. Ill tell you this the 40s will flat out shoot. But then again every precision weapon that is used by the Corps isnt an off the shelf bought gun, its put together with higher end components in the Precision Weapons shop....and the Barrett isnt a precision weapon
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Sweet another thread that will start an IBA argument!
Popcorn check
Sweet another thread that will start an IBA argument!
Popcorn check
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Luke not sure if your talking about the XM3 but it wasnt a 20 inch barrel its 18.5, or are you talking about the M40A5s?
Luke not sure if your talking about the XM3 but it wasnt a 20 inch barrel its 18.5, or are you talking about the M40A5s?
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bdh308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id have to agree with LoneWolf. Especially now that the Scouts are running in teams of 5 to 6 snipers. The insertions are closer as with there tactics. Its bad enough that they have to carry 150#s or more of equipment including a rifle with 24" barrel. I say amen. </div></div>
Uh, I don't think any outfit is carrying 150#s of gear per guy. If they are, they aren't making it very far................ Maybe 150#s of gear split between two guys......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bdh308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id have to agree with LoneWolf. Especially now that the Scouts are running in teams of 5 to 6 snipers. The insertions are closer as with there tactics. Its bad enough that they have to carry 150#s or more of equipment including a rifle with 24" barrel. I say amen. </div></div>
Uh, I don't think any outfit is carrying 150#s of gear per guy. If they are, they aren't making it very far................ Maybe 150#s of gear split between two guys......
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
nope ive definitely carried 150 lbs of shit on my back by myself and that was on about a 12 click insert to a hide for 6 days
nope ive definitely carried 150 lbs of shit on my back by myself and that was on about a 12 click insert to a hide for 6 days
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
I wasn't on a sniper team but I carried 120+ from insert to link up in Bosnia '95. I had about 80lbs of my own gear and then whatever I could fit of 60mm mortar rounds.
You'd be surprised what you can be conditioned to do. I remember we used to buddy carry runs and I was 185lb carrying a guy my size at a jog for 1/4 - 1/2 a mile and switch. Now it's tough to do the same and walk a lap around a HS track.
I wasn't on a sniper team but I carried 120+ from insert to link up in Bosnia '95. I had about 80lbs of my own gear and then whatever I could fit of 60mm mortar rounds.
You'd be surprised what you can be conditioned to do. I remember we used to buddy carry runs and I was 185lb carrying a guy my size at a jog for 1/4 - 1/2 a mile and switch. Now it's tough to do the same and walk a lap around a HS track.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope ive definitely carried 150 lbs of shit on my back by myself and that was on about a 12 click insert to a hide for 6 days </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wasn't on a sniper team but I carried 120+ from insert to link up in Bosnia '95. I had about 80lbs of my own gear and then whatever I could fit of 60mm mortar rounds.
You'd be surprised what you can be conditioned to do. I remember we used to buddy carry runs and I was 185lb carrying a guy my size at a jog for 1/4 - 1/2 a mile and switch. Now it's tough to do the same and walk a lap around a HS track. </div></div>
Didn't say it couldn't be done. I've carried my fair share of weight, I still do and I'm "conditioned" and so are my guys. I'll say that does not make since tactically. You may get to where you are going but God forbid you bump into "something or someone" in route to your destination.... I've seen plenty of guys carry crazy amounts of weight too. They weren't my soldiers! I care too much about my guys to put them in that kind of tactical risk. Lighter is always faster. Some things you can do without! If I see my guys trying to take more than 100#'s of stuff with them I stop the silliness right there, we'll figure out a different packing plan before I put my guys in danger..................
This being said the above statement about "carrying 150#'s worth of stuff" was made as if it were an every day/mission occurrence, not one mission, or one "time".
I've made the dumb mistake of over packing for a mission as well when I was a young leader. We made it to where we were going but weren't worth a hoot when we got there and we were "conditioned". Luckily it was only training. I've learned from my mistakes. Carrying 150#'s worth of stuff on a regular occurrence is a Leadership issue.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope ive definitely carried 150 lbs of shit on my back by myself and that was on about a 12 click insert to a hide for 6 days </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wasn't on a sniper team but I carried 120+ from insert to link up in Bosnia '95. I had about 80lbs of my own gear and then whatever I could fit of 60mm mortar rounds.
You'd be surprised what you can be conditioned to do. I remember we used to buddy carry runs and I was 185lb carrying a guy my size at a jog for 1/4 - 1/2 a mile and switch. Now it's tough to do the same and walk a lap around a HS track. </div></div>
Didn't say it couldn't be done. I've carried my fair share of weight, I still do and I'm "conditioned" and so are my guys. I'll say that does not make since tactically. You may get to where you are going but God forbid you bump into "something or someone" in route to your destination.... I've seen plenty of guys carry crazy amounts of weight too. They weren't my soldiers! I care too much about my guys to put them in that kind of tactical risk. Lighter is always faster. Some things you can do without! If I see my guys trying to take more than 100#'s of stuff with them I stop the silliness right there, we'll figure out a different packing plan before I put my guys in danger..................
This being said the above statement about "carrying 150#'s worth of stuff" was made as if it were an every day/mission occurrence, not one mission, or one "time".
I've made the dumb mistake of over packing for a mission as well when I was a young leader. We made it to where we were going but weren't worth a hoot when we got there and we were "conditioned". Luckily it was only training. I've learned from my mistakes. Carrying 150#'s worth of stuff on a regular occurrence is a Leadership issue.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
the funny thing was is it wasnt just over packing. 5 man team 6 days in a hide, 2 radios, batteries for 2 radios to last 6 days, food and water for each person,extra ammo, optics, pyro, protective gear, it adds up quickly. That was a weekly thing though
the funny thing was is it wasnt just over packing. 5 man team 6 days in a hide, 2 radios, batteries for 2 radios to last 6 days, food and water for each person,extra ammo, optics, pyro, protective gear, it adds up quickly. That was a weekly thing though
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've made the dumb mistake of over packing for a mission as well when I was a young leader. We made it to where we were going but weren't worth a hoot when we got there and we were "conditioned". Luckily it was only training. I've learned from my mistakes. Carrying 150#'s worth of stuff on a regular occurrence is a Leadership issue. </div></div>
It is dumb when you take non-essentials but when in a situation where you cannot count on a re-supply you can't tell me that you won't take all you can bear.
I've never been a sniper but I have been out on OP and had to carry in all of our food and water as well as essential gear and then carry out our waste items and essential gear.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've made the dumb mistake of over packing for a mission as well when I was a young leader. We made it to where we were going but weren't worth a hoot when we got there and we were "conditioned". Luckily it was only training. I've learned from my mistakes. Carrying 150#'s worth of stuff on a regular occurrence is a Leadership issue. </div></div>
It is dumb when you take non-essentials but when in a situation where you cannot count on a re-supply you can't tell me that you won't take all you can bear.
I've never been a sniper but I have been out on OP and had to carry in all of our food and water as well as essential gear and then carry out our waste items and essential gear.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
Been on some long missions, trying to do the math in my head, Still not coming up with more than 100# worth of gear. If you distribute the weight it works out easily. Heck I'm even including the whole sleep system in my calculation, even though we've never used it. If we take 2 radios we only take enough batteries for one (we have internal small radios to talk to each other). The other radio is for back up only. I only need enough batteries to last the mission plus a little extra. Don't need extra ammo b/c if we make contact we call in for immediate extract and have CAS in the area in 5-10 min usually (plus we always carry extra ammo no matter how short or long the mission is, so no need to add extra to the "extra"). Water is actually the biggest issue, and you can only carry so much (there's only so much room in that ruck sack).
Truth be told I've never gotten more than 90lbs in my rucksack and that was with adding steel weights for "conditioning" and believe me I packed it with every heavy piece of gear I owned. I was trying to make it as heavy as I could. The only other thing I could have done to make it heavier was to take all the Gear out and fill it full of steel weights.
This wasn't meant to be a pissing match, just a reality. We're Soldiers and Marines, not supermen..............
Now this "old Soldier" has to go to sleep so I can get up and try to put a hurting on my young soldiers for some "conditioning" at 0600 tomorrow morning.... In reality, they'll hurt me while I'm trying to condition them, LOL!
Been on some long missions, trying to do the math in my head, Still not coming up with more than 100# worth of gear. If you distribute the weight it works out easily. Heck I'm even including the whole sleep system in my calculation, even though we've never used it. If we take 2 radios we only take enough batteries for one (we have internal small radios to talk to each other). The other radio is for back up only. I only need enough batteries to last the mission plus a little extra. Don't need extra ammo b/c if we make contact we call in for immediate extract and have CAS in the area in 5-10 min usually (plus we always carry extra ammo no matter how short or long the mission is, so no need to add extra to the "extra"). Water is actually the biggest issue, and you can only carry so much (there's only so much room in that ruck sack).
Truth be told I've never gotten more than 90lbs in my rucksack and that was with adding steel weights for "conditioning" and believe me I packed it with every heavy piece of gear I owned. I was trying to make it as heavy as I could. The only other thing I could have done to make it heavier was to take all the Gear out and fill it full of steel weights.
This wasn't meant to be a pissing match, just a reality. We're Soldiers and Marines, not supermen..............
Now this "old Soldier" has to go to sleep so I can get up and try to put a hurting on my young soldiers for some "conditioning" at 0600 tomorrow morning.... In reality, they'll hurt me while I'm trying to condition them, LOL!
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is dumb when you take non-essentials but when in a situation where you cannot count on a re-supply you can't tell me that you won't take all you can bear.
</div></div>
This is one of the "leadership issues" I was talking about before. Not being able to count on re-supply is a Leadership issue. Does it happen still, you bet! Ask me how I know.
Onemoretime, I know Mortars carry crap loads of extra gear: Mortar Tubes, base plates, extra rounds, ect, ect. I was talking about snipers though. We do carry more than the regular Infantry guy who can count on strength in numbers. What I am saying about us though is that you have to limit some stuff. Not everybody needs spotting scopes or laser rangefinders. If you do take sleeping bags not every body need one b/c you can't all sleep at the same time anyway. There are ways to get fresh drinkable water on long missions with-out having to carry it all, you just accept the fact that you will probably be hungry and eat one to two small meals a day.
Like I said, I didn't say it couldn't be done, I stated that is was a risk, and that it didn't make tactical since.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is dumb when you take non-essentials but when in a situation where you cannot count on a re-supply you can't tell me that you won't take all you can bear.
</div></div>
This is one of the "leadership issues" I was talking about before. Not being able to count on re-supply is a Leadership issue. Does it happen still, you bet! Ask me how I know.
Onemoretime, I know Mortars carry crap loads of extra gear: Mortar Tubes, base plates, extra rounds, ect, ect. I was talking about snipers though. We do carry more than the regular Infantry guy who can count on strength in numbers. What I am saying about us though is that you have to limit some stuff. Not everybody needs spotting scopes or laser rangefinders. If you do take sleeping bags not every body need one b/c you can't all sleep at the same time anyway. There are ways to get fresh drinkable water on long missions with-out having to carry it all, you just accept the fact that you will probably be hungry and eat one to two small meals a day.
Like I said, I didn't say it couldn't be done, I stated that is was a risk, and that it didn't make tactical since.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope big green didnt do shit...that XM3 was an IBA rifle that was donated to the Marine Corps, ive used them....they suck, they theory is great but that particular rifle blows </div></div>
Im glad that someone agrees with me about that damn rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope big green didnt do shit...that XM3 was an IBA rifle that was donated to the Marine Corps, ive used them....they suck, they theory is great but that particular rifle blows </div></div>
Im glad that someone agrees with me about that damn rifle.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is dumb when you take non-essentials but when in a situation where you cannot count on a re-supply you can't tell me that you won't take all you can bear.
</div></div>
This is one of the "leadership issues" I was talking about before. Not being able to count on re-supply is a Leadership issue. Does it happen still, you bet! Ask me how I know.
Onemoretime, I know Mortars carry crap loads of extra gear: Mortar Tubes, base plates, extra rounds, ect, ect. I was talking about snipers though. We do carry more than the regular Infantry guy who can count on strength in numbers. What I am saying about us though is that you have to limit some stuff. Not everybody needs spotting scopes or laser rangefinders. If you do take sleeping bags not every body need one b/c you can't all sleep at the same time anyway. There are ways to get fresh drinkable water on long missions with-out having to carry it all, you just accept the fact that you will probably be hungry and eat one to two small meals a day.
Like I said, I didn't say it couldn't be done, I stated that is was a risk, and that it didn't make tactical since. </div></div>
Water was always the biggest concern for us. We would skimp on other gear to carry extra water. REALLY hard to find water you are comfortable to drink when you are in Uganda where the ebola virus was prevalent.
I was never an 11C so luckily I only had to carry mortar rounds that one time in Bosnia. Everyone had a few, aside from that the heaviest part or my ruck were the extra 249 drums.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is dumb when you take non-essentials but when in a situation where you cannot count on a re-supply you can't tell me that you won't take all you can bear.
</div></div>
This is one of the "leadership issues" I was talking about before. Not being able to count on re-supply is a Leadership issue. Does it happen still, you bet! Ask me how I know.
Onemoretime, I know Mortars carry crap loads of extra gear: Mortar Tubes, base plates, extra rounds, ect, ect. I was talking about snipers though. We do carry more than the regular Infantry guy who can count on strength in numbers. What I am saying about us though is that you have to limit some stuff. Not everybody needs spotting scopes or laser rangefinders. If you do take sleeping bags not every body need one b/c you can't all sleep at the same time anyway. There are ways to get fresh drinkable water on long missions with-out having to carry it all, you just accept the fact that you will probably be hungry and eat one to two small meals a day.
Like I said, I didn't say it couldn't be done, I stated that is was a risk, and that it didn't make tactical since. </div></div>
Water was always the biggest concern for us. We would skimp on other gear to carry extra water. REALLY hard to find water you are comfortable to drink when you are in Uganda where the ebola virus was prevalent.
I was never an 11C so luckily I only had to carry mortar rounds that one time in Bosnia. Everyone had a few, aside from that the heaviest part or my ruck were the extra 249 drums.
Re: Marine Scout Sniper
I dont think anyone liked the xm3. The only person I know who liked it, only liked it because he could throw it in his eberlestock without it sticking out, hah. i wouldnt trust that thing if i were shooting past 500. we only had about 2 out of 8 that held moa. i usually just stuck with the 40, its pretty solid. But as far as 20", its just another idea that got thrown out there and probably will get shot down if it hasnt already. youd be suprised about how many weapon systems the marine corp is "going to switch over to". like the replacement for the mk11, i heard so much crap about a new rifle. at one point i heard of 4 different guns that were suposed to be replacing the mk11. last one i think was the repr, did that get rejected already?
I dont think anyone liked the xm3. The only person I know who liked it, only liked it because he could throw it in his eberlestock without it sticking out, hah. i wouldnt trust that thing if i were shooting past 500. we only had about 2 out of 8 that held moa. i usually just stuck with the 40, its pretty solid. But as far as 20", its just another idea that got thrown out there and probably will get shot down if it hasnt already. youd be suprised about how many weapon systems the marine corp is "going to switch over to". like the replacement for the mk11, i heard so much crap about a new rifle. at one point i heard of 4 different guns that were suposed to be replacing the mk11. last one i think was the repr, did that get rejected already?
