Marine Team Rifle returns to Camp Perry 96 yrs later

[cplnorton]

I am still pulling documents on this rifle, so this will be a shorter post. Once I feel I have found as much as I can, I will post it in detail.

But in 1927 the receiver of this rifle was a Marine International Match rifle. The Marines also called these rifles, Free High Pressure rifles, or "Free Rifles" for short. In 1927, it would have had a Remington 28'' barrel, lyman receiver sight, a Fecker Telescopic sight, double set triggers, a palm rest, and a sporter stock.

This particular rifle had a Cutts Compensator installed on it by Col Richard M. Cutts for testing. Col Cutts was the creater of the Cutt's Compensator, such as the one used on the Thompson SMG.

In 1927, this receiver in that configuration was shipped to the Marine Rifle team captained by D.C. McDougal and Assistant Captain Merrit A Edson. D.C. McDougal became a Major General and was instrumental in not only the foundation of the Marine rifle teams, but also with the WWI Marine Sniper program. Merrit A Edson also became a Major General and was the founder of the 1st Raider BN in WWII. He also was awarded the Medal of Honor, two Navy Crosses, and a Silver Star. He was instrumental in the defense of Edson's Ridge (named after him) at Henderson Field on Guadalcanal.

Other notable names on the 1927 Rifle team at Camp Perry that year were Richard Cutts Jr., the son of the man who installed the Cutt's compensator on this rifle. Also on the team was Morris Fisher, a 5 time Gold Medalist and famous Marine team shooter.

As of writing this, there are only two Marine team rifles we can document by serial number to the Marine rifle teams. This is one of two.

The International Match rifles were the Marine's "Cadillac" rifles. They were the best rifles they had and they only had about a dozen. In 1933, they ordered these rifles broken down to parts and the receivers were to be stored for future rifle team use.

As was the tradition with the worn down National Match rifles, the Marines re-barreled these rifle team receivers and made them into a Special Target rifle. Which were a re-barreled former team rifle with a standard barrel.

This receiver was built into a Marine Special Target rifle after it's time as an international Match rifle. The Marines used their NM and Special Target rifles off the Marine rifle team to build their Unertl Sniper rifles in WWII.

Even though it is likely this rifle was rebuilt multiple times on the Marine rifle team and served years, if not decades at Camp Perry, I can for sure document it was at Camp Perry in 1927.

I think this is one of the most interesting Marine rifles I have encountered and the research on it still is continuing.

Even though I am still finding new info on it, yesterday I was able to return it back to Camp Perry, 96 years later.

One of the examples of the docs on this rifle.

Here are the Marine International Match rifles taken in 1928 with the Marine rifle team. Since the Marines only had a handful of these rifles it would be neat to know if this receiver was in this pic.

The order to break the rifles down in 1933 and retain the receiver for further rifle team use.

 

[USMCsean]

Awesome documentation to a very storied rifle!

 

[Defender3]

Great story - thanks for posting!

An somewhat of an aside, but to your comment about the team only having so many rifles, Teams practice at Quantico and I've spent time watching their courses of fire when they hit R4 (1,000yds). What interested me is that they were not assigned a rifle like the Army AMU teams, they simply picked up a rifle and shot it. I spoke with a couple of the members and they confirmed they sign out rifles from the armory and shoot what was issued. Now, I suppose each may have a favorite, etc., but even the 2112s aren't working with the shooter on specific rifle chambering, loads, etc., as would the AMU.

 

[ZG47A]

I am still pulling documents on this rifle, so this will be a shorter post. Once I feel I have found as much as I can, I will post it in detail.

But in 1927 the receiver of this rifle was a Marine International Match rifle. The Marines also called these rifles, Free High Pressure rifles, or "Free Rifles" for short. In 1927, it would have had a Remington 28'' barrel, lyman receiver sight, a Fecker Telescopic sight, double set triggers, a palm rest, and a sporter stock.

This particular rifle had a Cutts Compensator installed on it by Col Richard M. Cutts for testing. Col Cutts was the creater of the Cutt's Compensator, such as the one used on the Thompson SMG.

In 1927, this receiver in that configuration was shipped to the Marine Rifle team captained by D.C. McDougal and Assistant Captain Merrit A Edson. D.C. McDougal became a Major General and was instrumental in not only the foundation of the Marine rifle teams, but also with the WWI Marine Sniper program. Merrit A Edson also became a Major General and was the founder of the 1st Raider BN in WWII. He also was awarded the Medal of Honor, two Navy Crosses, and a Silver Star. He was instrumental in the defense of Edson's Ridge (named after him) at Henderson Field on Guadalcanal.

Other notable names on the 1927 Rifle team at Camp Perry that year were Richard Cutts Jr., the son of the man who installed the Cutt's compensator on this rifle. Also on the team was Morris Fisher, a 5 time Gold Medalist and famous Marine team shooter.

As of writing this, there are only two Marine team rifles we can document by serial number to the Marine rifle teams. This is one of two.

The International Match rifles were the Marine's "Cadillac" rifles. They were the best rifles they had and they only had about a dozen. In 1933, they ordered these rifles broken down to parts and the receivers were to be stored for future rifle team use.

As was the tradition with the worn down National Match rifles, the Marines re-barreled these rifle team receivers and made them into a Special Target rifle. Which were a re-barreled former team rifle with a standard barrel.

This receiver was built into a Marine Special Target rifle after it's time as an international Match rifle. The Marines used their NM and Special Target rifles off the Marine rifle team to build their Unertl Sniper rifles in WWII.

Even though it is likely this rifle was rebuilt multiple times on the Marine rifle team and served years, if not decades at Camp Perry, I can for sure document it was at Camp Perry in 1927.

I think this is one of the most interesting Marine rifles I have encountered and the research on it still is continuing.

Even though I am still finding new info on it, yesterday I was able to return it back to Camp Perry, 96 years later.

One of the examples of the docs on this rifle.

Here are the Marine International Match rifles taken in 1928 with the Marine rifle team. Since the Marines only had a handful of these rifles it would be neat to know if this receiver was in this pic.

The order to break the rifles down in 1933 and retain the receiver for further rifle team use.

One small question, sir. What with all the time spent in the archives, posting in this forum and showing the rifle off at live firing ranges ... does your front lawn now resemble a patch of elephant grass?
Thanks for the updates. I look forward to further installments.

 

[Longrangeprecision762]

Beautiful rifle and a great read after a long day.

I was there this morning shooting Vintage Sniper. I would love it if anyone else took pictures and could post them.

Kind Regards,

- Jon

 

[cplnorton]

Thanks for the kind words Gentlemen. The one thing that amazed me about this rifle was it was a low number receiver.

But I think I have a very plausible reason why the Marines used these low number receivers to build their International Match rifles on the Marine team.

My theory is this receiver likely started as a WWI Mann Niedner A5 sniper rifle first.

The reason being is the Marine team used the Mann Niedner A5 sights on their International Match rifles from 1921 to 1925. In 1926 the rifles were not used, and in 1927 those rifles were re-built by Remington and the Marines to mount the Fecker Scopes and they discontinued using the Mann Niedner A5's.

But from 1921 to 1925 the Marine team used the leftover WWI Mann Niedner scopes on their international Match rifles.

In the docs it talks about the WWI sniper rifles were broken down for parts once the barrels were worn out, and those drilled and tapped receivers were put into storage at the Philly Depot. I have found now five serials all around this rifle that were either an original WWI Mann Niedner sniper, another international Match rifle, or a 1940 Marine Sniper trial rifle.

My hunch is because the Marine team used the WWI Mann Niedner scopes on their International Match rifles, they used the already drilled and tapped sniper receivers that were already in storage from WWI snipers broken down to parts. It sort of makes sense they would have used receivers already drilled and tapped for the blocks, than to have to drill and tap a new receiver. Also the Marines never bought loose receivers, they just always used the ones they had removed another barrel from.

For instance, here is a Marine International Match rifle pictured in 1921. This Marine team rifle is using a leftover WWI Mann Niedner Sniper scope.

Now if you study the WWI Mann Niedner snipers, the blocks on those rifles are much longer than the blocks by Unertl. So the spacing of the holes is much wider. But I noticed something when I started to look at this receiver more. I think it was drilled and tapped for the Mann Niender block and the one hole was just filled in and ground down before it was parkerized.

On bottom is an original USMC Mann Niedner sniper block. The top is this rifle above. Compare the spacing and where this receiver would be drilled and tapped if it had a Mann Niedner block at the rear of the receiver.

When you get it under photo lights, I really think this receiver was drilled and tapped for a USMC Mann Niedner block and that hole was filled in and ground down before it was parkerized. Then later it was drilled for the Unertl block.

 

[cplnorton]

The other reason I think this is a leftover WWI Mann Niender receiver is the other serials I am finding that correlate to this.

We do not have a lot of serials of WWI Mann Niender Snipers or Marine team rifles. But even though we have a small percentage of what they actually had, I am finding a correlation of serials that are round my rifle that are either snipers, or other team rifles.

For instance:

635960 My rifle above, an International Team rifle, built into an Unertl.

636139 Another Marine International Match rifle documented on a USMC doc dated 1933.

639662 This was a 1940 Marine Sniper Trial rifle, and likely another USMC International Match rifle before that.

639692 An original WWI Mann Niedner sniper rifle. (I cannot show my evidence on this rifle publically, but this is a documented WWI sniper)

I also know a 638,xxx that I cannot really comment on publically, but it is also a WWI Mann Niedner Sniper.


So you have five serials that are either Sniper rifles, or Marine team rifles that are around my serial number. As much as the Marine sniper and team rifles and parts were intertwined and kept separated from the standard rifles, it really makes sense why blocks of serials are showing up in patterns.

Here is the team document documenting 636139, another Marine International Match rifle which is only 179 digits off my rifle. This is courtesy of Andrew at Archival Research Group.

In 1940, Goerge Van Orden who later became a Brigadier General and Gunner Calvin Lloyd conducted a Sniper Rifle trial to find the best combination of Marine Sniper rifle and scope for the Upcoming war. They trialed a small handful of different combinations of rifles and scopes in their testing for a new sniper. There is never a serial number detailed in any of the records of this test, and the pics that you find in books on these rifles are not the best. An easy place to see these pics are in Senich's Scout Sniper book. But I found the original manuscript of this book, with high-definition pics where I can see the serial number of one of the rifles.

Here are the pics of the Sniper Trial manuscript, with the serial number blown up on the top rifle. This was the only rifle I can see the serial number on but it's clearly a 600k serial number. I think the serial is 639662. Even though this is a Sniper trial rifle in 1940, I also think this was another USMC International Match rifle before that. It is drilled for the lyman receiver sight, and has a visible trait in the picture that is also something I noticed on mine. It's very distinct and I would rather not say publically what it is, but I really do believe this receiver was another International Match receiver built into a sniper trial rifle for WWII.

 

[cplnorton]

The real neat thing about this rifle is this is likely as close as I will ever get to documenting a Marine Corps Unertl rifle serial on an actual Marine Document.

In WWII the Marines didn't track serials, they only tracked quantity. So none of the Marine Unertl sniper serials were recorded when they were snipers. But since the Marines built their sniper Rifles on former Team rifles, if you can document your rifle to the Team and it has the distinct traits of an Unertl sniper, that is as close as you can really get to having a documented Unertl Sniper Rifle.

The thing that just amazes me is this is a low number serial but it really makes sense when you look at the progression of the docs and how it came to be on the team, and you follow the document trail on how it could have been a sniper.

First the order to tear these International Match rifles apart, but to retain their receivers for future rifle team use. I already posted this earlier, but here it is again. This places the receiver to be used for other team rifles. Which is how I think it was built into a Marine Special Target.

I then in the docs start to see mentions of the Marines having reconditioned or rebuild Match rifles such as docs like this.

In this doc it actually details they have 210 of the Special Match rifles.

This doc clearly defines what a Marine Special Target rifle is. It is a rebarreled former team rifle.

This is how you can tie a Special Target into a Sniper. This is an inventory of all National Match and Special Target rifles in the Marines in 1942. They have 574 Special Target rifles, which are the re-barreled former team rifles.

Then it is ordered the above 1047 rifles have their polished bolts undergo a bluing process and the rifles be stored labeled as Sniper's Equipment.

The order to build the snipers from these 1047 rifles came in January 1943.


Of these 1047 rifles, the Marines state before, during, and after the war that the roughly 1000 team rifles were the ones they used to build their snipers from. The difference being if the receiver had it's original star gauged barrel it was labeled a NM. If the receiver was rebarreled and didn't have a star gauge barrel it was a Special target.

 

[cplnorton]

As of right now, we know of two rifles we can document to the Marine Corps team. This one, and one that never was converted to a Sniper. The other one was in the 1928 NM shipment to the Marines and is owned by a good friend.

I thought there might be a chance someday I might find one documented to the team that has the traits of the Unertl rifle. I just never though it would be a low number.

I really think this receiver started as a WWI Mann Niedner Sniper like this pic taken in France during the WWI era.

Then in 1921-1925 I think because the receiver was already drilled and tapped for the Mann Niender scope base it was likely built into a International Match rifle with the Mann Niedner scope.

In 1927 I think it was likely rebuilt into this style International Match with the Fecker Scope.

After 1933, I think it was rebuild into a Marine Special Target, which would have just been a normal looking M1903 to an untrained eye.

Finally I think it was rebuilt into this configuration after January 1943. Besides the correct distinct Unertl traits on this rifle, some of the neat other things are the NS bolt had another NM serial in the 1.37 serial range that was removed, before the current 635960 was applied. The barrel is also a Marine contract barrel date 9-40. It's just a really neat rifle and I wish so much that receiver could talk and tell it's full story.

The research is ongoing on this rifle. I think I found pics of this reciever taken in 1927 when Col Cutt's installed the Cutt's compensator on it. If I did actually find them I will come back and post them here.

Thanks guys and I hope this is as neat to some of you as it is to me. It certainly is a one of a kind.

 

[Mister Ridge]

How do you get this kind of documentation? I have a rifle I should probably get around to investigating.

 

[cplnorton]

How do you get this kind of documentation? I have a rifle I should probably get around to investigating.

lol no life.

Just kidding but not really. It's not published, nor in books. In fact most of our books are not the best. A lot of the info you find in them is very dated and not correct.

I started to go to archive locations all across the country and pulling old boxes of documents. Many of the boxes had never been opened since they were filed back in the day. Besides that researching the vintage magazines of the day, old libraries, microfilm, and even vintage newspapers has netted a lot of good stuff.

Basically it's a lot of detective work.

What are you trying to research? I copied large sections of the National Archives. I have over a 100,000 pages I have copied from there now.

 

[USMCsean]

I totally love stuff like this man! The one that that gets me is where do you figure out where to go? I understand there may be one or two places, but I would think that files that are approaching 100 yrs old tend to get thrown out about 50 years before. So the fact that you find these documents just blows me away. Very, very cool.

 

[cplnorton]

I have suspected for a while a picture of this receiver when it was an Marine International Match rifle existed in Col Cutt's personal Paperwork.

I finally found it. Here is the receiver above ( 635960), when it was an Marine International Match Rifle, taken in 1927. The Cutt's compensator was installed by Col Cutt's himself, and turned over to the Marines on 21 August 1927.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Amazing… just incredible to document a rifle like this!

BTW, Merritt Edson was from Chester, Vermont. And was the founder of the Vermont State Police Academy after he left the Marines.

His “handle” in the Marines was “Red Mike.” He commanded the Raiders on Tulagi then on Guadalcanal where “Edison’s Ridge” bave the pivotal battle that helped secure Henderson Field.

Hell of a Marine (and soldier) and Vermonter!

Sirhr

 

[cplnorton]

So I finally got a chance to travel across the country to go thru Col Cutt's personal records and I found out some more history on this rifle. Col Cutt's installed the Compensator on the barrel of my Receiver with the intent for GySgt Morris Fisher to use it at the 1927 Wimbledon Cup at Camp Perry. GySgt Fisher was one of the most famous shooters of not only the the Marine Corps but also in the World at the time. He was the Rockstar of his day. I have personally always wanted anything I can tie to Morris Fisher so I was really excited to find this connection.

Here is a timeline I have been able to put together of my receiver for the 1927 Season.


13 June, 1927- Col Cutt's requests one International Match (IM) Rifle to mount a Cutt's compensator on. The intent is that Morris Fisher would use the rifle in the any sight, any rifle matches (The Wimbledon Cup at Camp Perry was one of the most popular matches of the day. It was a 1000 yard match where you could use any rifle, any sight)

15 June, 1927- Marine Doc seeking approval to send one IM rifle to Col Cutts to mount a compensator, this is approved.

28 June, 1927- Philly Depot sends one IM Rifle to Col Cutts

22 August, 1927- IM Rifle 635960 is returned from Col Cutts with a compensator attached.

24 August, 1927 The IM Rifle is shipped to Camp Perry OH

7-8 Sept, 1927- The Wimbledon Cup is held at Camp Perry, Morris Fisher is detailed as Finishing 10th out of nearly 1000 participants with a perfect score with 11 V's. (The Winner had a perfect score with 14 V's)

10 Dec, 1927- Col Cutt's writes Julian Hatcher telling him his Compensated IM rifle finished the Wimbledon Cup with a perfect score with 11 V's. (Thus seeming to confirm that the plan for Morris Fisher to use the rifle in the match happened)

 

[cplnorton]

The Wikipedia page for GySgt Morris Fisher.

Morris Fisher - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Aftermath]

Even though I am still finding new info on it, yesterday I was able to return it back to Camp Perry, 96 years later.

I have some dust in my eye. I swear it's some dust.