Masada ACR Redo

[Exemer]

As you all know bushmaster and remington company bought rights to the original Magpul concept rifle the Masada ( if u are not aware, then i have to call into question wether u live under a rock or dont pay attention). Well they have managed to royaly screw it up making the weapon too heavy, way too expensive, unreliable, not in different calibers as they promised, cheap looking, and just poorly marketed.

I have to really wonder why and how they could have dropped the ball on a revolutionary rifle that could changed the theater of target and combat world. I then start to wonder what if another company was able to get the masada rights to make and distribute. GAP, LMT, Noveske, HK, RRA, LWRC, KAC(maybe not-price). The fact that either one of these could have made it into a real semiauto that you could depend on is giving goosebumps.

Any comments or possible logical feed would be great to share with all.

 

[Starvin]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

Nope, Freedom Group ownes the rights.

However Magpul did retain the rights to the Massoud.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

I'm eager to see what comes of the Massoud if anything at all.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

I bet Hide member Massoud could shed some light?.. Don't know if he would be allowed to though.

 

[Massoud]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

It would be possible for a company to start making parts to make the ACR more Masada-like. In fact I've heard rumors that this will happen, but who knows when really. Contrary to rumor and Bushmaster's claim which I heard personally at SHOT, they did not redesign the entire rifle just keeping the "look". They did do some things which people consider to be detrimental. Some of these can be reversed. Remember, at it's heart, the ACR genenrally uses the AR-180 operating system which is a performer.

Of course I too hope to see a commercial Massoud, the more Magpul hears about it through email or through their industry forum on arfcom, the greater that chance is.
Justin

 

[sideshowbob]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

I wish someone at freedom group/ remington would take care of this and release a proper ACR. Remington is sitting on a lot of profitable product. If they would only release them. I thought consolidation was supposed to streamline all this stuff.


MAGPUL----will you please make the Massoud commercially available!?

 

[Alpine 338]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

The way some companies (i.e Remington/Bushmaster) provide products that aren't always what the customer want's, poor marketing, and poor response to market needs, will likely cause the Masada ACR to end up going the same direction as the Robinson Armament Company M96 Expeditionary Rifle.

Both good rifle that could have been.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

That's pretty much the impression I got. They said those things just so they could jack the price up high.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be possible for a company to start making parts to make the ACR more Masada-like. In fact I've heard rumors that this will happen, but who knows when really. Contrary to rumor and Bushmaster's claim which I heard personally at SHOT, they did not redesign the entire rifle just keeping the "look". They did do some things which people consider to be detrimental. Some of these can be reversed. Remember, at it's heart, the ACR genenrally uses the AR-180 operating system which is a performer.

Of course I too hope to see a commercial Massoud, the more Magpul hears about it through email or through their industry forum on arfcom, the greater that chance is.
Justin </div></div>

 

[vereceleritas]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

Did Magpul have any input on the changes that Bushmaster made to the Masada design or did Bushy do that all on their own?

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

So why did Magpul sell the design to Freedom? I have to ask, did Magpul experience any problems during the development that they just couldn't work through?

 

[vereceleritas]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So why did Magpul sell the design to Freedom? I have to ask, did Magpul experience any problems during the development that they just couldn't work through? </div></div>

I don't think they sold it for developmental reasons, it would've been for manufacturing reasons. Magpul is setup mostly to make polymer AR accessories. Forging and machining receivers, rifling barrels, and doing everything else involved with mass producing a complete rifle would've taken a huge investment and a lot of time. Going to a company that already has these capabilities makes sense. I think most of us would agree Magpul chose the wrong company to do it though.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

I know that they toyed with some AR lowers and a couple other concept weapons, and as far as I know they are out of the gun making business now. I just wanted to be sure that they didn't hit some snags with the Masada that they decided to get out.

 

[sideshowbob]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

Which company do you guys think would have been a better choice?

Remington/Bushmaster was a bad choice, but did they have any real alternative?

Ruger? LWRCI? Or, should they have gone with a non-firearm company?

 

[KChen986]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sideshowbob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which company do you guys think would have been a better choice?

Remington/Bushmaster was a bad choice, but did they have any real alternative?

Ruger? LWRCI? Or, should they have gone with a non-firearm company? </div></div>

Since this is purely hypothetical, I think a company with the know how and capital to support such a project would have been most preferable. LMT, LWRC, KAC, FN would have been nice.

Hopefully the ACR can eventually become what we expected.

 

[Sebben]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sideshowbob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish someone at freedom group/ remington would take care of this and release a proper ACR. Remington is sitting on a lot of profitable product. If they would only release them. I thought consolidation was supposed to streamline all this stuff.


MAGPUL----will you please make the Massoud commercially available!? </div></div>

Bushwacker did the same thing to Cobb when they bought them out.

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Here is the FA-50T (Fast Action)that Cobb offered before Bushmaster</span></span>

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Here is what Bushmaster now offers. I saw one at a local gun show and I was disappointed in it.</span></span>

As for the MCR series... Well thats probably never going to happen.

 

[rsilvers]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exemer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well they have managed to royaly screw it up making the weapon too heavy, way too expensive, unreliable, not in different calibers as they promised, cheap looking, and just poorly marketed.

GAP, LMT, Noveske, HK, RRA, LWRC, KAC(maybe not-price).</div></div>

GAP, LMT, and Noveske are all very high quality, but small companies.
HK has the XM8 and G36 and won't make them in the USA.
KAC has the PDW and that is not for sale commercially.
The ACR is not cheap looking and not unreliable.

 

[Sebben]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exemer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well they have managed to royaly screw it up making the weapon too heavy, way too expensive, unreliable, not in different calibers as they promised, cheap looking, and just poorly marketed.

GAP, LMT, Noveske, HK, RRA, LWRC, KAC(maybe not-price).</div></div>

GAP, LMT, and Noveske are all very high quality, but small companies.
HK has the XM8 and G36 and won't make them in the USA.
KAC has the PDW and that is not for sale commercially.
The ACR is not cheap looking and not unreliable.

</div></div>

But when comparing weight and ergonomic to the FN SCAR (16S). Both in the same price range. I would go with the SCAR over the ACR any day.

Also wouldn't it be safe to say that you would be some what biased towards Bushmasters ACR being that you provide Bushmaster the flash hiders?

Edit: Spelling

 

[koz]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exemer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well they have managed to royaly screw it up making the weapon too heavy, way too expensive, unreliable, not in different calibers as they promised, cheap looking, and just poorly marketed.

GAP, LMT, Noveske, HK, RRA, LWRC, KAC(maybe not-price).</div></div>

GAP, LMT, and Noveske are all very high quality, but small companies.
HK has the XM8 and G36 and won't make them in the USA.
KAC has the PDW and that is not for sale commercially.
The ACR is not cheap looking and not unreliable.

</div></div>

But when comparing weight and ergonomic to the FN SCAR (16S). Both in the same price range. I would go with the SCAR over the ACR any day.

Also wouldn't it be safe to say that you would be some what biased towards Bushmasters ACR being that you provide Bushmaster the flash hiders?

Edit: Spelling </div></div>

Freedom group also owns AAC but there isn't a bias - They also make the SCAR suppressors...

 

[Massoud]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

I can't say too much about the inner workings of the ACR development. However I will point out a couple things.

-The Masada and now ACR has some parts that are not cheap to manufacture. The QD barrel setup is part of that.

-The Masada was not sold because there were problems Magpul couldn't work through, it was a production decision.

-Magpul worked hand in hand with Bushmaster and Remington throughout the process. I was involved as the ACR project manager for a short time. Magpul did not necessarily agree with all the changes made.

-Perhaps another manufacturer would have been a better choice, but I would be surprised if there were someone with better production facilities and better testing facilities than Remington.

-The ACR went through some extreme testing regimens by rigid scientific standards. Think teams of engineers generating and analyzing data and finding all the strengths and weaknesses.

-How Bushmaster used this data and decided to cut corners or not cut corners I'm not entirely sure as I was gone by final production.

-An in-spec Masada/ACR has always been reliable in my experience. Remember, it's a proven operating system. It has great ergonomics but needs to be lightened. I had a shorty (13") Massoud down to 7.49 lbs (the exact same or lighter than our SCAR light) so there is weight to be saved.
Justin

 

[Sebben]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exemer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well they have managed to royaly screw it up making the weapon too heavy, way too expensive, unreliable, not in different calibers as they promised, cheap looking, and just poorly marketed.

GAP, LMT, Noveske, HK, RRA, LWRC, KAC(maybe not-price).</div></div>

GAP, LMT, and Noveske are all very high quality, but small companies.
HK has the XM8 and G36 and won't make them in the USA.
KAC has the PDW and that is not for sale commercially.
The ACR is not cheap looking and not unreliable.

</div></div>

But when comparing weight and ergonomic to the FN SCAR (16S). Both in the same price range. I would go with the SCAR over the ACR any day.

Also wouldn't it be safe to say that you would be some what biased towards Bushmasters ACR being that you provide Bushmaster the flash hiders?

Edit: Spelling </div></div>

Freedom group also owns AAC but there isn't a bias - They also make the SCAR suppressors... </div></div>

Derp... I forgot...

 

[hewlett260]

Re: Masada ACR Redo

Everyone has their opinions on it, so here's mine. I think they did what they felt to be right. Overall its not a bad weapon but like anything else, it could be better. Because I am in the military and have the experience that I have with weapons, I feel it could have been worse if had gone to FN. However for those who say its unreliable, I bet you haven't spent much if any time with it. And its taking longer than it should for the after-market to catch up. I'm hoping that just means they are trying to do it right. But if not, I like LWRC better anyway. Bushmaster really isn't that bad, they just aren't the best either.