Match barrel expectations

[Ledzep]

Say you do an OCW test with a match bullet, or a couple different match and varmint bullets...

What is the worst 5-10 shot group size you'd expect to see?

Currently I'm getting between 1.5 and 5 moa. Handloads and factory match. I feel like 1) it's a little on the wide side, and 2) it shouldn't be so 'spiky'. In other words the bad end shouldn't be so bad.

That said I'm not huge into semi autos... Very experienced reloader and bolt gun shooter.

 

[diverdon]

Caliber?
Trigger?
Whose match barrel?
Bolt bought with barrel?
Have you shot other AR's under moa?
How many rounds?

But yeah there are a lot of 2 moa rifles out there for every 1/2 moa rifle.

 

[Ledzep]

Seekins Precision
.223 wylde 1:8 twist 5R
Jard trigger (it's light, like 1.5lb)
Bolt is a generic (Midway AR Stoner IIRC), not sold with the barrel

Upper is a milspec M4, don't remember who made it at this point, had it for about a decade now. Midwest industries FF tube, and an adjustable gas block set to eject at 3-4.

Barrel has 500-800 rounds on it now I haven't kept close track, but it has done this from day 1. I probably shot 200-300 73gr ELD-M's trying different powders, COAL, crimp, etc.. to get it to shoot. Straight garbage. 2-5 MOA. 75gr BTHP's were better but still nothing stellar (1.5-2 MOA).

I moved to 53gr Vmax's and have had the most consistent luck with them, 1-1.5 MOA with 27.1gr of CFE223, but if I bump up to 27.6-28.0gr of CFE223 it goes to shit, 4-5" groups.

My next plan is to gauge pin the muzzle to see if it's not a trumpet from improper stress relief.

I have never owned an AR that shot exceptionally well, but I've never tried it either. I was getting these results, if not better/tamer with my no-name $75 10.5" SBR.

 

[TimK]

I wouldn't find that accuracy acceptable. I've had a half dozen rifles with good barrels (WOA and JP), and all have shot 1/2 minute or better with a good load. I expect 1.5 MOA with blaster Ammo from a good barrel. My blaster load is bulk Hornady 55g bullets over Varget in mixed brass. Thrown, not weighed charges.

5 MOA? Something is very wrong.

 

[steve123]

I'll say this, my Wilson match barrel doesn't keep up with the Krieger I use to have. Just under moa for the Wilson with a lot of messing around with loads. The Krieger shot from the get go and moa was about the worst it did.

I lucked out with a old Armalite 223 match factory rifle in 223. It's been a great shooting barrel, easily sub moa. I loaned it to a friend at a tactical match because his rifle broke, he out shot me and my custom bolt rifle at a 100Y stage on 1" dots.

If you have to fight a barrel, well you know...

 

[Yondering]

Barrel has 500-800 rounds on it now I haven't kept close track, but it has done this from day 1. I probably shot 200-300 73gr ELD-M's trying different powders, COAL, crimp, etc.. to get it to shoot. Straight garbage. 2-5 MOA. 75gr BTHP's were better but still nothing stellar (1.5-2 MOA).

With those 75gr BTHP bullets, try 23.5gr of 8208 or Benchmark with a WSR primer in LC brass, seated to ~2.250". If it won't shoot that load reasonably well, there may be something wrong with the rifle.

You might have to open the gas block a little if you have it adjusted for CFE223.

 

[Alabusa]

I have heard some rifles like the barrel nut tightened soft and others like it torqued to the max you can get it. Would be something fairly easy to try.

 

[blacklab1]

I have heard some rifles like the barrel nut tightened soft and others like it torqued to the max you can get it. Would be something fairly easy to try.

I'm just getting into this PRS thing but when I put my 3 gun rifles together the barrel nut torque is very low importance to me. I was told it doesn't matter much. Is this different when you shoot precision?

 

[NAS78]

After 500-800rds that barrel should've settled in by now. Something's astray. Match handloads and match barrels should do 1 moa or better consistently. Consistently being the the keyword. Honestly I'd move on from that barrel if you've ran lots of ladders on many different loads. There may be some load out there that the barrel just loves but you shouldn't have to shoot out the barrel to find it. I take it you're certain the optic and mount aren't moving on you?

 

[Ledzep]

Yep, it's had 2 different optics and mounts. I pulled the barrel and will be looking it over. To shower the problem in money, I ordered a Vltor MUR upper and CLE SPR barrel. CLE is recovering from a direct hurricane hit, however so it may be a while before I get the barrel.

If that doesn't work, I'll lop them both off at 10.5" and return to the sbr mentality.

 

[Alabusa]

I'm just getting into this PRS thing but when I put my 3 gun rifles together the barrel nut torque is very low importance to me. I was told it doesn't matter much. Is this different when you shoot precision?

I have never been told it didn't matter. I have been told it is one more part to experiment with.
Every rifle is different and you need to take every part that can be adjusted into consideration.

Like I said, it is a fairly simple thing to do. It may not make a difference on your rifle but is it not worth trying, just in case?

 

[Rerun7]

Yes, the torque on the barrel matters. Do some reading up on it but as you adjust it you will see an affect down range.

I would expect 1moa or better for a good match barrel with hand loads.

Have you had someone else shoot it or shoot it out of a sled, etc?

Checked your scope / mounts, etc?

 

[Ledzep]

Two different scopes and mounts. I got one of the new Diamondback Tactical models (FFP 4-16 in a Vortex cantilever mount) for shits and giggles and thought at first maybe it was the scope, but the scope tracks and holds zero, and I tested it also with a PST Gen II 3-15 (ARC M10 QD mount) and it was the same. I haven't had anyone else shoot it. I scored 247/250 on my last USMC rifle qual (table 1 portion), and often place top 10 in local PRS matches. I lay down and print .5-.7" 10-shot groups with factory match Hornady 147's in my 6.5 cm bolt gun. I'm not trying to brag, I just trust myself to not be the problem. I have shot it from a dual-supported bag rest, though, in an indoor 200yd tunnel totally controlled/steady conditions. That was where I was doing initial work where the 73gr ELD's were giving me trouble.