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Advanced Marksmanship Me or the barrel?

D

DamnYuppie

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 9, 2011
413
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Idaho
So here is my dilemma. I have a TRG-22 with 7k rounds down it in about 2.5 years, it is pretty much my only rifle. Recently I have noticed that the first two shots in a string of five, at 500 yards, are generally where I aim and very close to each other. Yet the next three are consistently .2 -.3 mils higher then the first two. Also the ones that are higher are grouped very close to each other, not all over the place. This did not use to be the case, the were occasionally a flier or pulled shot but not a string of them.

My first inclination is to believe I am doing something wrong, either changing my breathing, or my rearward tension on the rifle. Some have speculated that it is the barrel heating up, but I don't subscribe to that theory as I have not witnessed this behavior previously. So I thought it would throw this out there to y'all and see if this the type of behavior one sees when a barrel is shot out?
 
Complete speculation from me here, but with 7k rounds on the barrel, I'd be leaning towards the throat of the barrel being shot out.
 
Will do. I think I have someone local who will let me swap out a barreled action from their TRG. So I might go that route...
 
Worn barrels will shoot groups, but badly. Have the flyers been getting worse or more frequent? Sounds like it could be the barrel. If you have been shooting heavy bullets with max powder charges the barrel won't go 10,000 rounds. I shoot 180's at 2740 and the throat has moved .035 in 3500 rounds.
 
Worn barrels might respond to load development. As interior specs alter over time, load preferences can vary.
 
My throat has moved over .05. For half of the barrels life I was shooting 175's at 2680, the rest have been 155's at 2880.

I have thought of redoing load development, and I may do that after the cup.
 
OP,

I agree with the assessment that your barrel is shot out. Shooting at LR will permit recognition of a burnt out barrel when X count average drops. I've discovered, through proper recording in my score books, I can get about 3,000 rounds from .223, 6,000 rounds from .308, and only about 500 rounds from 6.5/284 before things go south. I try to avoid competition with a barrel that is getting close to the numbers posted.
 
Sterling Shooter said:
OP,

I agree with the assessment that your barrel is shot out. Shooting at LR will permit recognition of a burnt out barrel when X count average drops. I've discovered, through proper recording in my score books, I can get about 3,000 rounds from .223, 6,000 rounds from .308, and only about 500 rounds from 6.5/284 before things go south. I try to avoid competition with a barrel that is getting close to the numbers posted.
Click to expand...

That don't sound right. Well, at least the 500 part.
 
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500 does seem a bit low for a 6.5 but then again I haven't really had much experience with them either.
 
Hey, I'm going to assume he is right. But I'm also asking myself what is the point of a 500 round rifle? I've started reloading .300 H&H in a custom rifle. I'm only loading at 2800fps. Now I'm wondering what I should expect out of it. Since I'm like the only one I know about I guess I will find out sooner or later on my own. Based on your experience and what has been offered up on this thread I'm guessing I'm about half way there on my own .308 Win.
 
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No, I think he meant 500. The point? well, I spent several years shooting the .260 at 1Kyd against 6.5x.284's and bore burners or not, they did a really good job of beatin' my butt. Some folks will spend more than others just to win. That x.284 superiority was one reason why I liked 28" barrels, it gave the .260 just that smidge more velocity without needing to go over max. It's also a good reason why my LR chambering preference has shifted somewhat in favor of the .280; it can compete with the x.284 without needing to run high pressures.
 
Before I would change the barrel, I would give it a good cleaning. Clean it good with a bore cleaner, then use a copper cleaner, like Barnes, then use JB bore paste. When you are done with that, clean it again with bore cleaner, dry it out and before you start your group, fire a fouling shot. A lot of bad barrels are just dirty. With my match grade AR service rifle, I got about 10,000 rounds, in ten years of match shooting. My Shilling barreled .308 I lost count of the rounds, but I got it used in about 97 and use a load with WW748, 175 MK that Chronograph about 2780 with Lapua brass and 2720 with Winchester, and at 800/900 it will shoot 196-198 regular.
 
turbo54 said:
Different strokes...

Enough shooters are cleaning the F class target, X counts decide the winner more and more often.
Click to expand...

I have never shot F Class. In NRA LR Match Rifle Division I have found that shooting a 6.5/284 chambered rifle is like shooting a laser for the first couple of hundred rounds. Back a few years ago in the National LR Championships, match 531, I cleaned with 9 X's for a 17th ranking and 4th place HM finish. More X's and I would have had a better finish. So X count does matter. Using that cartridge my average X count dropped at about 500 rounds from throat erosion.

As far as spending a lot of money to win, it is what it is. Why handicap yourself? Nevertheless, since I could not afford rebarreling the 6.5/284 as often as necessary, I switched to Service Rifle Division of NRA LR. It was a good move, helping me to better recognize what is most important to good results at long range when aids or substitutes to marksmanship are not part of the program.
 
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I look at all the info in this topic and realize, it's not a 500 round gun, or even a 500 round barrel, it's a 500 round throat.

If I had the means to redesign the basic rifle, I'd produce the chamber and bore separately; so the chamber/throat could be replaced without needing to retire a perfectly good bore.

I figure a forward extended receiver, a chamber segment and barrel segment (keyed/splined for alignment?), a crush ring/washer seal between them to contain gas pressure, and a barrel nut to compress the barrel/chamber stack. Take it a step further and make up a 3rd, intermediate piece, a throat insert.

Better than setback/rechambering, since that means a different set of harmonics afterward.

Greg
 
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As always, I hereby relinquish all rights of intellectual property for this idea. I posses no means to realize it, no means to legally defend it, and would rather just let someone else with such means pick up and carry this ball. All I would ask is that once business is on an even keel, it would be nice if they could send me one or a few for my personal use.

My rice bowl is already at a comfortable level.

Greg
 
Wow there are some interesting ideas in this thread. Thought I would post back my findings.

I was lucky enough to have someone lend me another TRG-22 barreled action. Ironically enough the resembled rifle had a barreled action from one TRG, the bottom metal from a different TRG, and the trigger and stock from yet another one. So overall I cobbled together my rifle from 3 separate TRG's.

The best part was when I went to zero it in today and test it out. I was worried as the load I worked up previously was for a different barreled action and may not shot well in the new one, as I didn't have time to do load work before heading out to the Cup. Apparently I had little to worry about as I was able to bug hole several of my 3 shot groups when I was zeroing. When I walked it out to 500 yards I quickly found out it was shooting MUCH better then the old one. I was able to hit 4" circle target at 500 yards 4 out of 5 times, and a 4" diamond 4 out of 4 times. I also noticed that my dope went from 2.8 to 2.5 @ 500 yards, which isn't bad for a 308 shooting 155's! No I don't know the velocity as I didn't chrono it.

Overall I am very pleased with how things worked out. I have to say I am impressed with the TRG and the consistency of the parts.
 
Greg Langelius * said:
I look at all the info in this topic and realize, it's not a 500 round gun, or even a 500 round barrel, it's a 500 round throat.

If I had the means to redesign the basic rifle, I'd produce the chamber and bore separately; so the chamber/throat could be replaced without needing to retire a perfectly good bore.

I figure a forward extended receiver, a chamber segment and barrel segment (keyed/splined for alignment?), a crush ring/washer seal between them to contain gas pressure, and a barrel nut to compress the barrel/chamber stack. Take it a step further and make up a 3rd, intermediate piece, a throat insert.

Better than setback/rechambering, since that means a different set of harmonics afterward.

Greg
Click to expand...


or just nitride it....
 
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