Medium Weight Rifle

[Quackaddict]

Hey guys,

Would like some opinions on putting together a medium weight rifle to use as a medium range (200-600yd) gun for whackin critters and steel. I want a rifle capable to kill elk out to distance.

Before anyone says it, I run a 243 to distance with regularity, not the most capable shooter here, but we run out enough to 4-500 yards to feel confident with taking the next step.

Looking at a magnum of some sort, a short look at bullet selection makes it seem like the 7mm family is the best compromise of bullet weight and BC.

Right now im looking at building around a savage long action, a custom tube and a stock. Would like to keep the rifle in the 10-12 lb range to make it functional for hunting.

What does everyone recommend for barrel contour? I want a 26 inch tube to maximize velocity, and will probably run a brake.

Also have spent some time looking at stocks, looking hard at a XLR, but not sure how that stock will work as a hunting stock, some of the various offerings from manners and McMillan look great, but im concerned about weight and overall functionality.

I realize I havent specifically asked any questions, looking more for ideas and opinions on what I am trying to do. Appreciate your time, and input!

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

I'm having a rifle built right now that's sounds about like what your looking for. After much research and going back and forth from 7mag, 7LRM, 7-08, etc.....I finally decided to go with 7SAUM. It seems to be the best all around of the 7mm's right now with the most efficient case design. Building the 7SAUM on a long action is the best idea from those that i have talked to (especially for a hunting rig). You can seat the bigger/longer bullets out ahead of the neck/shoulder junction and utilize the max amount of case capacity.

Parts list for mine are as follows.

Stiller Tac300 LA
Benchmark #5 fluted barrel to finish @ 26"
4 port brake contoured to .750"
Manners MCS-T stock
BDL bottom metal
Stiller alloy base
Seekins alloy rings

I'm sure you will get lots of different opinions, but I think the 7saum is a good choice. You can load down as light as 140gr bullets up to 180gr bullets. I plan to shoot the Berger 180 Hybrids and the 162 Amax's.

The XLR is a very nice chassis, but I don't think it'd be a good option for dedicated hunting stick.

Good luck

 

[Overflow10]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

I did something similar:

7RSAUM
Stiller LA/rail
Brux fluted #5 9 twist at 25"
Manners T/A BDL
Timney trigger
RAD brake
9.2lbs w/o optic

Been using 180 & 168 VLD and get 2950-3000 fps easy on either.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post3516551

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did something similar:

7RSAUM
Stiller LA/rail
Brux fluted #5 9 twist at 25"
Manners T/A BDL
Timney trigger
RAD brake
9.2lbs w/o optic

Been using 180 & 168 VLD and get 2950-3000 fps easy on either.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post3516551</div></div>

Perfect!

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Overflow10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did something similar:

7RSAUM
Stiller LA/rail
Brux fluted #5 9 twist at 25"
Manners T/A BDL
Timney trigger
RAD brake
9.2lbs w/o optic

Been using 180 & 168 VLD and get 2950-3000 fps easy on either.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post3516551 </div></div>

Almost perfect! Love that rifle and sure looks like a good shooter!

Would staying with the straight 7 rem mag give me any extra fps? Like the idea of a semi standard caliber in case I ever get caught someplace out west with no ammo....

As far as twist rates go, seems like 9 is the standard and that will shoot the berger 180's, I read somewhere berger has a 185 in the works that will require a 8.5, was thinking if I ordered an 8 twist I should have my bases covered. Opinions on that?

How is that manners stock for comfort and handling?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

For 600 yards, you really do not need a magnum. Magnums don't shine until beyond that range. Why deal with longer barrels with less barrel life, more recoil/concussion, more expensive ammunition, especially if you're trying to keep it relatively light?

For 600 yards, running a magnum is completely unnecessary. You'd be fine with 7mm-08, .260 Rem, .280 Rem, 6.5 CM, etc. Hell, a .308 should even work. You could also go with 22" and slightly heavier barrel, which will help with your target shooting.

Were I doing a build like this, I'd look at a Stiller Tac-30, Bartlein bbl in Rem Varmint contour finished at 20-22", Manners T1/T3 (whichever you prefer) in 90% carbon, run the mini-chassis (for reliable feeding from a detachable magazine) and call it a day.

Run the numbers on Ballistic with a 6.5mm 140 gr A-Max or Berger 140 @2700ish and compare that with a 162 gr A-Max at 7mm-08 velocity and then at 7 RSAUM/WSM velocities. Then think about the money you save, with a standard cartridge in barrel life, powder, weight, recoil (probably won't even need a brake at that point), and think if the critter is going to know the difference as to which cartridge hit him.

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

I realize I do not need a magnum to get out to 600, my 243 even with simple 70nbt's is more than useful to 4-500 yards. If I were looking simply at a paper puncher I would be asking about a 260 or 7mm/08.

What I am looking for is input for an weapon capable of providing enough energy down range to effectively kill elk. I have spent a bunch of time looking at opinions on caliber and it seems the larger cartridges are what is required, I want a caliber capable of putting animals down efficiently, at minimum people recommend a 30.06, I would prefer to have a margin of error on the energy, even if it costs me some barrel life and recoil in the end.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

Not everyone is a minimalist. Yes, for 600 yard targets and whitetail, a magnum is not needed......We all know that. However, if you want a gun that will cover it all, including any bigger game you may go after later on down the road, you'll be glad you have the bigger caliber. No need to get into a whole debate on shot placement vs caliber bullshit. My rifle is being built for the specific purpose of long range elk/mule deer hunting, but yes, I'll still be using it to shoot a few Oklahoma whitetails and some steel plates.

The key factor here is what you WANT......not what you need. And as for comments regarding barrel life......see my sig line.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> at minimum people recommend a 30.06, I would prefer to have a margin of error on the energy</div></div>

Have you run the numbers? Compare energy, of say a .280 Rem, 7mm-08, and .30-06 at 600 yards. People look at it all wrong and say "you need this big of a cartridge" but don't consider the actual energy.

By all means, if you WANT a magnum, go for it, but the practical application is going to net you nothing for those ranges.

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

Notice In my original post I said 7mm, never said anything about what caliber I am gonna pick, hell from what I have read the 30 calibers seem to do a better job with larger animals because of the cutting diameter and mass that goes with them.

I will go and run some numbers, not really stuck on anything, that's why I asked for input in the first place!

From the input I have gotten from people who have killed numbers of elk, they never seem to regret having a bigger round, know some guys who shot them with a 243. I prefer to have margin of error and will hopefully find a good compromise.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

I was just pointing to the .30-06 analogy since that was what you were suggested. I really don't get the bullet diameter, because bullets don't stay that diameter (hopefully) on impact. The 7mms especially, retain their energy because of high BCs. What you'll find is that often, for instance, a .280 Rem will retain more energy than the .30 caliber version of the same case (.30-06). You've got to use a good bullet, and one designed to work at the velocities it will impact with. I've seen .300 Win Mags punch pencil holes in game that hobbles several hundred yards before finally hitting the ground. I've seen .30-30s, .223s, .243s, and .260s kill game in its tracks (research the use of 6.5x55 on moose through the years) while bigger cartridges have failed. I learned this lesson the hard way myself, pencil-holing through a very nice buck at about 320 with a Nosler Partition, you know, THE hunting bullet the geezer swear by. I followed up with two instant kills with Berger VLDs at 565 and 569 yards...back in the day before they were marketed as "hunting" bullets. Perhaps part was placement, part was the bullet was more effective than the Partition at extended ranges.

The "margin of error" theory, I don't hold much faith in. A miss is a miss. Missing the vitals with a bigger cartridge doesn't magically kill the animal because of a .30 cal over 7mm over a 6.5. There's really not that much difference. Anybody that discounts the "placement" concept is giving you bad advice. Whatever you choose, placement is going to be the most important aspect of being able to efficiently kill game, especially when extended beyond PBR. No matter if you choose a .338 Lapua or 7mm Rem Mag or lowly .308, you're going to be best served with a rifle you can practice with and know inside and out. You must have confidence no matter what you choose and practice, practice, practice!

I've personally fallen in love with the .280 AI for 90% of my hunting, but I don't hunt extended ranges with it (not because the round or rifle is incapable, but I pulled the precision scope off for a 3-9x that was lighter)....most shots around here are 500 and in, and I rarely can afford to go on trips anymore.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

For steel and small critters, continue to use your .243.
For bigger game, sky is the limit in the 7mm/.30 cal game.

Didn't see mentioned above unless I missed it, do you reload? That would be a big factor in round choice. Off the shelf availability my hinder your options.

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

Oh yes I reload, one of my favorite hobbies actually! Wouldn't even consider anything I can't reload for. No caliber is at its full potential with factory offerings.

That 280 was a caliber I have considered, I may have to take anothe look at it.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

Check in with our resident .280 expert, Greg Langelius.

 

[TannerGun]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

I shot to 1k with a 7.5lb 280 Remington. 162 A-Max, 7828ssc, 2820fps... long story short, if you get that bullet moving up around 2800fps and landing in the same spot at 100 yards, wicked shit is going to happen.

It's an excellent round, but I'm shooting a 7 Remington these days. Same bullet leaving at 3050 is even more wicked-er.

 

[Overflow10]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Almost perfect! Love that rifle and sure looks like a good shooter! ..........

.......As far as twist rates go, seems like 9 is the standard and that will shoot the berger 180's,

........How is that manners stock for comfort and handling? </div></div>

QA - some good discussion about down range energy, distance, and desire vs requirement. Personally I do not think a magnum is not needed. My original goal was very similar to yours since I usually do not take any hunting shots past 500-600?? Pretty much target past that point.

I was going to go 284 WIN with a REM 700 action but a good deal on the Stiller w/magnum bolt face popped up so I changed to the 7RSAUM. The 7RSAUM is very pleasant to shoot with the brake where as you would not need one with a 7-08. I think you would be just fine using a 7-08 with 162/168s for larger NA critters but a 284 WIN has just a little more umpf even when feeding from a SA DBM.

I really like the Manners T or T/A stocks. I use them for both hunting and some LR comps. Comfortable, my hand goes to a good natural trigger position, and the recoil pad works well too (even on the 7RSAUM). Great stocks. Have one with a chassis and it works as well as the ones I have bedded.

YMMV

SG

 

[RyanScott]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> at minimum people recommend a 30.06, I would prefer to have a margin of error on the energy</div></div>

Have you run the numbers? Compare energy, of say a .280 Rem, 7mm-08, and .30-06 at 600 yards. People look at it all wrong and say "you need this big of a cartridge" but don't consider the actual energy.

By all means, if you WANT a magnum, go for it, but the practical application is going to net you nothing for those ranges. </div></div>

I don't put a whole lot of stock in energy, but then the load I shoot leaves the muzzle at 2360 fps.

 

[boone3380]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

My favorite hunting rifles are 280AI and .308. I use the 162 Amax in the 280AI and 155 or 168 Amax in the 308. I've used both to kill deer, antelope, and coyote. When I go elk hunting I always take my 300WSM. I believe both of the other calibers are very capable of killing an elk, with diffrent bullets. An elk is a big heavy tough animal and just feel more comfortable with the larger caliber. Yes bullet selection is everything and speed kills. There's not much diffrence in cost of loading the 280AI and the 300WSM.

 

[ddavis]

Re: Medium Weight Rifle

You will want to go lighter than the XLR if you want the rifle to weigh 10-12 lbs. I have a 21" Medium Palma barrel, an XLR stock, and a relatively light scope on my long range gun and it weighs 13.5 lbs unloaded.