So I have a rem 700 sa in 260 rem with a 28in 1:8 twist bbl, and I am thinking of getting it melonited or salt bath nitrided(salt bath nitride is $150 instead of $220) since I heard it makes it rust resistant, gain fps, easier to clean, adds barrel life, and makes bolts smoother. So ceracoat is in the $200 range for getting whole rifle painted so I'm thinking get my barreled action coated since the barrel is cm and the bolt is rough ( I know its a remington) So all in all is it worth it? how does it look? and melonite vs salt bath nitride?
Gunsmithing melonite/ salt bath nitride coating worth $150-$220?
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I have done at least 25 guns and had zero problems. All of mine have gone through MMI Truetec. It is well worth the money and it is the only finish I use. I know other people have had issues with it in the past but there are no complaints here.
They are the same thing. Melonite is just a trade name for ferritic nitrocarburizing via "salt bath" aka salt bath nitride, black nitride, melonite, whatever S&W calls the finish on the M&P pistols, etc.
It's not a "coating" it is a solution heat treat. It physically changes the crystal structure of the metal at a microscopic level and reduces the corrosion resistance of 416R (barrel steel). If your barrel is stainless it is hurting the CR properties.
The barrel life properties I don't have enough data to comment on with authority. I've seen barrels not benefit at all, I've seen barrels that are in fantastic shape after supposedly 1/2 the life is toasted through them.
I'm sure that you will get some small sample-set testimonials on the barrel life, you'll have to take the information and make that decision on your onw.
I've seen barrels that were turds before and after, I've seen barrels that were great before and turds after (ask Turbo54 about his 308), I've seen barrels that were great before and great after.
It's not a "coating" it is a solution heat treat. It physically changes the crystal structure of the metal at a microscopic level and reduces the corrosion resistance of 416R (barrel steel). If your barrel is stainless it is hurting the CR properties.
The barrel life properties I don't have enough data to comment on with authority. I've seen barrels not benefit at all, I've seen barrels that are in fantastic shape after supposedly 1/2 the life is toasted through them.
I'm sure that you will get some small sample-set testimonials on the barrel life, you'll have to take the information and make that decision on your onw.
I've seen barrels that were turds before and after, I've seen barrels that were great before and turds after (ask Turbo54 about his 308), I've seen barrels that were great before and great after.
well just saying salt bath nitriding is the beginning process to melonite. melonite is called Ferritic nitrocarburizing and salth bath nitriding is one of the first things that they do then they make it into melonite, but salt bath nitride coating is cheaper in price since less steps and time into it.
From what I was told by Joel Kendrick at MMI during SHOT last year was that any issues that arise after meloniting is done are usually caused by the mixing metals during the treatment. MMI requires that you list all metal types on whatever you are sending in to be treated so that when they run a batch, all metal in that batch are the same.
would I have to have my barrel and action separately coated then?
I don't know about MMI Trutech, but H&M will treat a complete barreled action.
That said, I wouldn't advise doing it that way because:
1. The surfaces in direct intimate contact with one another (such as action face and barrel shoulder) won't be treated. Not that this "hurts" anything, but it's pretty "ricer", if you know what I mean.
2. You likely have an action made of 4140 steel and a barrel made of 416 stainless.....reference Adam B's post above about dissimilar alloys.
Also: Try not to think of it as a "coating". It is not. It is a heat treatment that leaves a black finish behind, but actually changes the microstructure of the metal.
No, not really. As Bohem already said, melonite is one company's fancy name for salt bath nitrocarbuerizing, and nothing more. It's a poorly chosen name at that, as melonite actually exists as a nickel telluride that bears no relation to the surface treatment. Tenifer is similarly a salt bath nitriding, and is exactly the same process but uses slightly different salts (cyanates) that are difficult to use in the US.
Color varies between the processes, but has nothing to do with the salt bath nitrocarbuerizing itself. Somebody may dip twice, someone else may quench-polish-quench, and someone else may quench, polish, and color, but the end result is functionally not very different.
i have had stuff done by MMI and H&M, LOTS..... reviews and info here
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
if you call H&M, ask for shade or bear... tell them i sent you from SH forums.. they will take care of you...
also, i dont think MMI likes doing complete barreled receivers...
i have done both... its better to have it apart... but if you cant, H&M will still nitride it for you
pic of a buch of stuff i have had done..
http://min.us/mdyTh2V
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
if you call H&M, ask for shade or bear... tell them i sent you from SH forums.. they will take care of you...
also, i dont think MMI likes doing complete barreled receivers...
i have done both... its better to have it apart... but if you cant, H&M will still nitride it for you
pic of a buch of stuff i have had done..
http://min.us/mdyTh2V
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aprox cost for a barreled action (if they will do it)
not 100% sure on current price... its been a year since i got my last gun done and they will "normally" try to cut you guys a deal.. just mention you saw it on SH, and mention my name.. they know me quite well, im local
but they will do a complete gun.. barreled action + bolt just make sure all the springs are out of the bolt and remove the trigger
this is how i sent in my last
but they will do a complete gun.. barreled action + bolt just make sure all the springs are out of the bolt and remove the trigger
this is how i sent in my last
my suggestion... i would do ANY bolt/action with no hesitation....
i would only do barrels then would benefit from the 2x barrel life... 6mm/6.5, and "burner".... i would NOT do it on 223/308, or other long life barrel.. if u want rust protection, paint it...
as bohem said, "I've seen barrels that were turds before and after, I've seen barrels that were great before and turds after (ask Turbo54 about his 308), I've seen barrels that were great before and great after."
its a heat treatment... the barrel is being dipped in 1000^ molten salt... 99% chance it will be fine... ive done for me and friends maybe 15 barrels... i had 1 223 that wouldnt shoot better then 2moa after
i would only do barrels then would benefit from the 2x barrel life... 6mm/6.5, and "burner".... i would NOT do it on 223/308, or other long life barrel.. if u want rust protection, paint it...
as bohem said, "I've seen barrels that were turds before and after, I've seen barrels that were great before and turds after (ask Turbo54 about his 308), I've seen barrels that were great before and great after."
its a heat treatment... the barrel is being dipped in 1000^ molten salt... 99% chance it will be fine... ive done for me and friends maybe 15 barrels... i had 1 223 that wouldnt shoot better then 2moa after
Interesting. I am thinking about going with a short barrel 260 rem 21" barrel. Maybe this will get me a tad more speed and keep the barrel running good for a longer round count.
I wouldn't count on melonite giving higher velocity.
Velocity stayed the same on the 308 barrel I had done, and it dropped ~50-75fps on the 7mm-08 I did.
I know others have claimed increased speed, but it didn't happen for me.
Velocity stayed the same on the 308 barrel I had done, and it dropped ~50-75fps on the 7mm-08 I did.
I know others have claimed increased speed, but it didn't happen for me.
the biggest increase I have seen was 30-40 fps other than that it was pretty much the same with other barrels
Good stuff! I have a Defiance Deviant and Bartlein barreled about to be done. I'll definitely post an update of what I see. I don't have velocities before melonite but its a 23" Bartlein 4-groove so I'm hoping for 2800fps + from factory 140 Hornadys.
Send it to a smith that will build the gun and also send the stuff in to have it melonited. ;-)
any chance this would be beneficial to a 300WM barrel that's already had a couple hundred rounds through it?
i would not do any rifle that had more then 200 down it... this is the problem... if there is ANY fire cracking in that barrel, and you SBN it, it will make it worse... and the barrel you get back "may" not soot as well as it did when you sent it out...
you "could" polish the snot out of it with some JB bore compound, or get some tubbs TMS lapping bulltes
Tubb Final Finish TMS Throat Maintenance System 308 Cal
and put a few of these down it to remove any cracking 1st
im getting a AI 260 that has 400 down it... i REALLY want to nitride it... but i dont want to risk it at that point... ill shoot this till its dead, then SBN the next
thanks for explaining it. I'll do the same and just wait until I rebarrel it.
