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Rifle Scopes Mid-price Precision Rifle scopes

Gtscotty

Gtscotty

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 22, 2018
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Hello,
FNG here, although I've been lurking in the optics section a while trying to sponge information, this is my first post on this forum. I've been reading here long enough to know that this question gets asked all the time. Hopefully it isn't too annoying for this topic to come up yet again, but I'd like the opportunity to cuss and discuss my optics needs/wants with the experts here, in addition to reading threads by other folks.

I'm a few months out from my purchase, but am starting to narrow down my list of potential scopes and would like to hear opinions/experiences on the different options.

I guess I'll start with my purpose and wants for this scope:

Purpose:

I'll be putting this scope on my Ruger Precision Rifle and moving the SWFA 3-15 currently mounted to another rifle. I use this rig to shoot 500 - 1,000 yds regularly and occasionally (although not since my second son came) shoot PRS style matches at the same ranges. With better glass I may stretch this setup out to 1,500 yds or so for fun every now and then, but this would not be a common occurrence. My shooting will take place in daylight, and I do my hunting with other lighter, simpler setups.

Wants:
- <$2,000 price
- Flawless tracking
- Zero stop
- FFP
- Mil/Mil
- >20x max power
- 10 Mil/rotation elevation turret
- Better glass than my SWFA 3-15 for improved target and impact resolution at 1,000 yds.
- Christmas tree reticle, preferably something medium featured, along the lines of the Sig DEV-L, Vortex EBR-2C, Leupold FFP CCH.
-Rock solid warranty

The main scopes I'm looking at now:

Bushnell XRS II 4.5-30x50
Bushnell DMR II Pro 3.5-21x50
Sig Tango 6 4-24x50
Athlon Cronos BTR 4.5-29x56
Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50
Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56
Vortex Razor HD AMG 6-24x50

Obviously the last two are right at the top or a bit above my desired cost ceiling, but with the right sales and purchase programs they are close enough.

Given the best sales I've seen the Razor HD Gen I and Sig Tango 6 can be had for about $700 -$800 less than the Razor Gen II and AMG, while the XRS II, DMR II Pro, Mark 5 and Cronos BTR are a little pricier, but still $400 - $500 less.

I'm looking for a scope to keep a long time so cost isn't the most important metric, but any savings I can reasonably get would be available for mounts, bullets, barrels, suppressors, etc.

In terms of best value, the Sig Tango 6 and the Bushnell XRS II are really standing out to me right now. With a discount, the XRS II really seems like the deal to beat, the only thing I'm hesitant about is that I wish they offered a reticle somewhere in between the G3 and the H59, something similar to the three I mentioned above.

Out of the list, I've only had a chance to get behind Gen I and II Razors, I want to see the others before ordering, but I'll have to travel down to Colorado to lay hands on them.

I'm all ears for any experience/opinions y'all are willing to throw my way.
 
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This is tough call. In terms of optomechanical performance and weight, I really like the AMG.

With reticles, I reall like Sig's DevL and the cant indicator is a very useful feature.

Of the ones in your list, Cronus is probably the best bang for the buck. Another scope that fits in your category is Delta Stryker HD 4.5-30x56, which is a similar design with its own reticle that I like a lot as well.

It is good to have choices.

ILya
 
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AMG's can be had for under 2k at some dealers or used for sure. I think that is your best option here. Nothing wrong with the GenII razor other than weight.
 
You may want to look in used section. Look for used kahles, nightforce or minox. The glass is better than Vortex. Although vortex has great warranty. If you shoot at distance “buy once cry once” is true.
 
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I have been using the Razor gen2 on my primary match rifle for the past two years and have been very happy with its performance. Last month I found a deal on a AMG and swapped out the gen2 to save 20oz (between scope and rings used), since then I have used it in one match and two practice sessions and so far have been happy with it. The EBR-7b reticle is awesome and transitioning from the EBR-2c was a piece of cake.
 
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Write a list of your perceived negatives for each scope, as well as positives.

For instance and this is just me. I decided over the years I try not to consider scopes with parallax minimum adjust over 25M in case I want to switch the scope to a PCP air rifle or 22 rimfire, obscuring line numbers just off the vertical crosshair in the reticle, lacking some type of revolution indicator, having less than 10 mil knobs, lack of a ZS, and .5 mil hashes because I prefer .2's, or ridiculously heavy and/or long scopes. Illumination is a bonus, it doesn't get used often but it's necessary at times.

It's interesting how one annoying dislike can bring disdain to an otherwise nice scope!
 
If your in the Razor price range I'd go with the Nightforce 7.5-35X56 instead. I admit I'm a Nightforce fan boy
 
I had a Bushnell Elite LRTSi, great glass but the G3 reticle was a little thick for my liking.

The AMG I had was great, no complaints and you won't go wrong with one.

I really like the Athlon Cronus BTR. I loved the first one so much, I sold my AMG and bought a second Cronus.

You can read plenty of threads and opinions on scopes. Keep in mind it is an emotional subject. Do your research, pick what you think is best, and enjoy it.
 
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Gtscotty said:
Hello,
FNG here, although I've been lurking in the optics section a while trying to sponge information, this is my first post on this forum. I've been reading here long enough to know that this question gets asked all the time. Hopefully it isn't too annoying for this topic to come up yet again, but I'd like the opportunity to cuss and discuss my optics needs/wants with the experts here, in addition to reading threads by other folks.

I'm a few months out from my purchase, but am starting to narrow down my list of potential scopes and would like to hear opinions/experiences on the different options.

I guess I'll start with my purpose and wants for this scope:

Purpose:

I'll be putting this scope on my Ruger Precision Rifle and moving the SWFA 3-15 currently mounted to another rifle. I use this rig to shoot 500 - 1,000 yds regularly and occasionally (although not since my second son came) shoot PRS style matches at the same ranges. With better glass I may stretch this setup out to 1,500 yds or so for fun every now and then, but this would not be a common occurrence. My shooting will take place in daylight, and I do my hunting with other lighter, simpler setups.

Wants:
- <$2,000 price
- Flawless tracking
- Zero stop
- FFP
- Mil/Mil
- >20x max power
- 10 Mil/rotation elevation turret
- Better glass than my SWFA 3-15 for improved target and impact resolution at 1,000 yds.
- Christmas tree reticle, preferably something medium featured, along the lines of the Sig DEV-L, Vortex EBR-2C, Leupold FFP CCH.
-Rock solid warranty

The main scopes I'm looking at now:

Bushnell XRS II 4.5-30x50
Bushnell DMR II Pro 3.5-21x50
Sig Tango 6 4-24x50
Athlon Cronos BTR 4.5-29x56
Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50
Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56
Vortex Razor HD AMG 6-24x50

Obviously the last two are right at the top or a bit above my desired cost ceiling, but with the right sales and purchase programs they are close enough.

Given the best sales I've seen the Razor HD Gen I and Sig Tango 6 can be had for about $700 -$800 less than the Razor Gen II and AMG, while the XRS II, DMR II Pro, Mark 5 and Cronos BTR are a little pricier, but still $400 - $500 less.

I'm looking for a scope to keep a long time so cost isn't the most important metric, but any savings I can reasonably get would be available for mounts, bullets, barrels, suppressors, etc.

In terms of best value, the Sig Tango 6 and the Bushnell XRS II are really standing out to me right now. With a discount, the XRS II really seems like the deal to beat, the only thing I'm hesitant about is that I wish they offered a reticle somewhere in between the G3 and the H59, something similar to the three I mentioned above.

Out of the list, I've only had a chance to get behind Gen I and II Razors, I want to see the others before ordering, but I'll have to travel down to Colorado to lay hands on them.

I'm all ears for any experience/opinions y'all are willing to throw my way.
Click to expand...
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the listed scopes there. One of the scopes I own is on your list. That's the Vortex Gen 1 Razor HD 5-20x50. Currently prices at 1600/1700 (?) at Optics Planet. So it is in your budget. I've peered thru the SWFA 10x and the Vortex HD glass , to my eye, is 'better'.

Again, you've come up with a nice list of great scopes. lg
 
Why not look at the scope classify section and see if there are any good deal on the expensive scope you want. Save $$$ and help out other member here.
 
Thanks for all the great recommendations thus far! I figured that the Razors HD II would be a top choice, they are very popular around here, and the ones I've been able to get behind all looked amazing. I know Vortex has an excellent warranty, and that is an important aspect of this purchase for me.

B-P-UU said:
AMG's can be had for under 2k at some dealers or used for sure. I think that is your best option here. Nothing wrong with the GenII razor other than weight.
Click to expand...

I included the AMG in my list in case I ran into a killer deal, buthonestly haven't looked as closely at the AMG because it didn't seem to be included in the discount program I looked at, whereas the Razor HD II was. Weight isn't a deal breaker for me as I do not intend to hunt with this rifle, but I would say that the 28oz or 38oz of some of these scopes is more desirable to me than the 48oz of the Razor HD II. The AMG as whole does look like a very nice option, any tips as to where one should start looking for AMGs in the $2k range?


steve123 said:
Write a list of your perceived negatives for each scope, as well as positives.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea, I'm usually pretty methodical about purchases and should have already gone down this route. I guess the main downsides I can think of off the top of my head are weight and cost (relative to the rest of the options) for the Razor HD II. For Athlon I wonder about company longevity, it doesn't seem they've been a company very long, I know they are getting good reviews, but what if I need warranty work in a 3-5 years and they aren't around anymore. That's probably unlikely, but it seems even less likely with companies like Bushnell, Vortex, Sig, etc.


USMC 308 said:
I really like the Athlon Cronus BTR. I loved the first one so much, I sold my AMG and bought a second Cronus.
Click to expand...

The Cronos BTR is intriguing to me, the price is right, the features I want are there and the reviews are good, but I haven't ever actually seen one and it seems like the company is pretty new and doesn't have much history yet.

I think I've heard that the Cronos BTR and the Tango 6 are both made by LOW. They both seem like very good deals, does anyone know how they compare to each other? How do the glass and turrets if the Cronos BTR compare to something like the Razor HD II or XRS II?


I am also watching the scope classifieds here, and am not opposed to buying a used scope if the right deal comes along. At this point I'm still collecting data and working towards a short list of a few top choices. Once I have that list I can keep an eye out for new and used deals.

Just to set the stage, here's a picture of the rifle I'll be using this scope on and the range I'll be shooting it at most often, from this morning.

IMG_20180728_104845343_HDR.jpg
 
AMG all the way, with Razor Gen2 as a very close second and the Bushnells pulling a close third, if it were my money. The AMG ticks so many boxes that it's hard to ignore. Excellent glass, excellent reticle, light weight. What's not to like? :)
 
The sightmark pinnacle is worthy of consideration as well.
I just received my Sightron 4.5-24.
I haven't been able to get out with it except for a quick trip to the range to get it sighted in. For some inexplicable reason, it does not have a zero stop, but with 10 mils per turn. I'm not sure it should be a disqualifier.
Awesome tree reticle, great glass, sharp image, crisp, sharp clicks.
 
Optics is a Pay-To-Play game... everything in your list has it's pros/cons... there is no free lunch.

Out of that list, I would go with Razor Gen II. It's >2k and a little heavy, but a great scope and awesome warranty.
 
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I was in the same boat over a month ago and had a chance to look at many options in that range and above. After handling the Bushnell XRS ii, the dmr ii, razors gen I and ii, a nf atacr 5-25, and even stuff i cant afford like the s&b and tangent theta, I still wanted to look through a cronus btr before making a purchase in my price range. I ended up getting the cronus btr after reading reviews here and I've been very pleased with the optical and mechanical performance for the price. The XRS ii is great as well and I've owned Bushnell before, they work too. However, I didn't want a horus reticle, and the g3 wasn't as nice as the cronus' floating cross hair to me, so that helped to make the decision. I don't think you'll go wrong with what you're looking at. Pick a reticle you like most
 
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Cronus is the best value IMHO if you like the reticle. Can be had for around $1k used for non-BTR.

If you want noticeably better performance than that, I think it's going to be hard to find in the sub-$2k market IMHO. Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 and AMG 6-24 are both good options at the top of your price point. If you like the SWFA reticle, the 5-20 HD is fantastic, especially at the $900-ish used price.
 
After some consideration, I think I've whittled my top choices down to (in no particular order):

Bushnell XRS II 4.5-30x50
Athlon Cronos BTR 4.5-29x56
Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56
Vortex Razor HD AMG 6-24x50

It doesn't look like the DMR II Pro will be offered with the H59 reticle, and I'd really like more hold over points than the G3 provides. It's kind of a bummer that the electronic parts on the Tango 6 are under a different, shorter warranty than the rest of the scope. The Leupold doesn't seem to be anyone's choice for top value and it seems like in this price range there are several better options than the Gen I Razor.

I'm curious if anyone has directly compared the Chronos BTR to the XRS II for optical/turret quality? If they were the same price, would there be a reason to get the Cronos over the BTR?

What about the Razor HD II vs the Razor AMG? The reticles are very similar, the HD II has a revolution indicator and, I believe, a larger amount of adjustment, but the AMG has all the features I need, is 20 oz lighter and made in 'murica. Is there a compelling reason to go with the HD II if you realistically aren't going to shoot much beyond 1,000 to 1,500 yds?


Full Otto Tactical said:
I just sent through the same debate for my current build. After talking to lots of experienced shooters, the XRS II is hard to beat when comparing price and what you get for the money.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely interested in the XRS II, the H59 isn't my favorite reticle off the cuff, but I don't think I'd have and problems using it for steel shooting. I think the guy who won the 2018 King of Two Miles competition used an XRS II, the glass must be pretty decent anyway.


Tunnuh said:
After handling the Bushnell XRS ii, the dmr ii, razors gen I and ii, a nf atacr 5-25, and even stuff i cant afford like the s&b and tangent theta, I still wanted to look through a cronus btr before making a purchase in my price range. I ended up getting the cronus btr after reading reviews here and I've been very pleased with the optical and mechanical performance for the price. The XRS ii is great as well and I've owned Bushnell before, they work too.
Click to expand...

How do you think the XRS II compared to the Razors, S&B, and Cronos BTR? Any thoughts on differences you noticed that could help break a tie? What compromises do you think you made getting the Cronos? Sorry not trying to be nosey, just curious about the Cronos, everyone seems to love it, but it's so much cheaper than some of the other options.
 
So the s&b has excellent clarity and resolution, my friend's scope has the locking turrets. They're all good. So let's break it down by feature, and remember these are a sample of 1.

Turrets wise for my liking is S&B=Razor Gen II>Cronus BTR>XRS II. The XRS ii turrets are nice though, just not as defined and crisp detents. Some prefer the razor because of the wide low profile knob and spacing is easier. So, take that into consideration.

Optically, they're all great. I have spent a good amount of time with the XRS ii and the cronus btr, and both render an image that is very detailed. I cannot tell a difference in resolution between the XRS II, Razor Gen II, or the Athlon. Athlon is brighter, the razor is more warm to my eye, and the XRS II seems very realistic in color. No noticeable CA in the XRS ii the razor gen ii and cronus btr barely has it in some instances. I leave out s&b cause it wins. I would rate them S&B>all the others and the others are different but excellent renderings of the same quality image. I can't tell a difference, maybe the XRS ii wins because of no CA but the image is very flat to me theyre all very good.

My cronus tracks, my brother in laws XRS II tracks, my friend's razors and Schmidt's track. The Cronus is the least tested in the group for now. They all have good warranties but i dont want to use one.

Price for performance I chose the Cronus BTR. It is similar to the XRS in price so I chose the reticle I liked most. And none were perfect in my view. The MR4 is my favorite to look at. The H59 lines are too thick to me and cover too much for my liking. The Cronus has the least extras as far as features like locking turrets and diopters but is the most cost effective. Call gr8fuldoug at Cameraland if you go that route. I think you'd be well served with any choice but I wanted to spend more on range time and shooting than a more expensive optic and less shooting while saving. That was my deciding factor question to myself. Which would do the job and allow the most bang for the buck?

I wish I had a camera and the scopes to show you resolution, but they're all good. Hope that helps.
 
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I had the same decision to make 2 years ago. Watched the classified here and got the Razor HD II with the EBR-2C reticle for under your budget number. Love everything about it excpet the weight but its not that big a deal. I would make the same decision again.
 
AMG, but if you could stretch the $ a bit I would opt for a NF ATACR or Khales
 
+1 for give Doug @ camera land a call about that Cronus btr I was looking at a few of the same scopes the Cronus was already near the top of the list before I spoke with him at the recommendation of several members and I couldn’t be happier with the Cronus or cammeraland
 
+1 for AMG. I’ve owned just about every scope you listed, pretty much doing the same thing that you’re doing and none of them really compare.

Top tier glass. EBR-7B gives you the excellent Vortex reticle with a floating center dot. The turrets, while similar, have a much better feel compared to the Gen 2s. It’s one of the lighter scopes (if not the lightest?) in the group and it’s significantly better at controlling CA than any of the other options. In short, there’s not really anything that I can find as cause for complaint.

While some of the other scopes do offer decent values for their respective prices, there isn’t one that is as well rounded as the AMG.
 
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Anderson_A said:
+1 for give Doug @ camera land a call about that Cronus btr I was looking at a few of the same scopes the Cronus was already near the top of the list before I spoke with him at the recommendation of several members and I couldn’t be happier with the Cronus or cammeraland
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words. Always a pleasure to "meet" and work with the members here
 
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Liberty Optics took care of me on a vortex razor 4.5-27. If you decide to go Vortex give him a call he was great to deal with.

This was my first (to me) high end scope so I can't give any feedback on the others but I love the vortex. Previous scope was a sig tango 4 and it was a big upgrade.
 
@Tunnuh , thanks for the awesome comparison, that is just what I was looking for!

I got a chance to lay hands on and look through the Mk5 and Razor AMG today. The Mk5 had a basic Mil reticle which seemed quite thick to my eye, and I'm not sure I like the push button style turrets on the Leupold. Regardless, it was a very nice scope, but didn't seem to be on the same level as the AMG to me.

Everything looked/felt great on the AMG to me. I think a locking windage turret is now a hard requirement for me, but the a locking elevation turret is not. The way I've been shooting, I'm spinning the elevation turret between different shot ranges and stages at matches, so I'm not sure when the turret could get bumped off that would matter, especially on a scope with a zero stop. It would definitely be a consideration if I was hunting with the scope, and maybe if you're using all hold over points it's a bigger deal.

One thing I forgot to look at on the AMG is what it uses for a revolution indicator. I don't think it has the nub like the HD II, are there horizontal lines or something similar, like the SWFA scopes?

I think the AMG popped to the top of my list after today, followed by the Cronos BTR and HD II. I noticed that most or all of the Bushnell products are out of stock on Experticity, kind of strange, without the discount the XRS II might not be as good of a value when compared to something like the Cronus. Maybe I'll reach out to some of the fine sponsors on here and see what they usually go for.... got to get the AMG out of my head first though.

For those suggesting that I spring for a NF ATACR over the AMG, what do you see as the advantages of the NF over the AMG? I've had a chance to look at and shoot BEASTs, ATACRs and S&B PM IIs before, but that was too much sleep and too many beers ago for me go remember much in the way of details.
 
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I have many of the scopes you mentioned in your original list, along with some that are more expensive. To be honest , in my opinion the Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 is the best scope for the money. Plus I’d buy one used on here for around $1800 or so and still have the exact same warranty as if you bought it new.
 
I don't think the amg has rev line indications...I think I'd look at the ATACR used for that price point. I've seen good deals lately in the for sale section.
 
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Been watching this, lots of good info here as usual. I'm also in market for new glass and have tried very hard to forget about the gen ii razor. To my eye the skmr3 reticle is the best, tried to talk myself into an atacr but hate the reticle options in my price range, Sub 3000. I have swaro glass for hunting and for me it's the best I've seen. But the warranty and respect the gen ii owners have for that scope is not unnoticed. Decisions decisions.
 
I had rifles set up with the gen 2 Razors and XRS IIs and did a lot of side by side between them. I ended up selling the Razors and keeping the XRS IIs because I felt the glass was a wash and preferred the features on the XRS IIs (non-locking elevation turret, zero and zero stop mechanism, and weight savings in particular).

Don’t really think you can go wrong with anything on your list.
 
Have any of you seen the new Bushnell Forge or Nitro scopes? It seems like Bushnell would be wise to put the Deploy FFP reticles into their more expensive scope lines, as it looks to me like lots of people like the Bushnell scopes but don't care for the reticle choices. More aiming points than the G3 but way less messy than the H59.
 
bgavin said:
Liberty Optics took care of me on a vortex razor 4.5-27. If you decide to go Vortex give him a call he was great to deal with.

This was my first (to me) high end scope so I can't give any feedback on the others but I love the vortex. Previous scope was a sig tango 4 and it was a big upgrade.
Click to expand...

If you're going Vortex definitely give Scott at Liberty a call. Great guy to work with.
 
Athlon Cronus will blow your mind for the price. Hit up the optics exchange here on the hide and snag one for $1200-1300 and have some extra coin left for ammo and other goodies.
 
Gooldylocks said:
It seems like Bushnell would be wise to put the Deploy FFP reticles into their more expensive scope lines, as it looks to me like lots of people like the Bushnell scopes but don't care for the reticle choices.
Click to expand...

I hadn't looked at their Deploy FFP reticles before I read this, but I'd definitely agree. I think I could like the H59, but something more along the lines of the Deploy, DEV- L and the Vortex reticles is more what I'd prefer.

grebski said:
Athlon Cronus will blow your mind for the price. Hit up the optics exchange here on the hide and snag one for $1200-1300 and have some extra coin left for ammo and other goodies.
Click to expand...

The Cronus BTR is definitely still in the running although I haven't had a chance to look at one in person. Do you think you would choose the Cronos over one of the Razors if they were the same price?


CATM15 said:
Mile High Shooting Accessories two Nightforce *Blem* 5.5-22x50 MOAR in stock with decent pricing. I included the link.
https://www.milehighshooting.com/sales/nightforce-deals/
Click to expand...

That's actually where I drove down to in Colorado this week to look at the AMG and MK5. Their shop is physically small, but jammed with super nice, high end stuff. The problem with NF, is the only two reticles they make that I'm interested in are the H59 and the Tremor 3, and those seem to come at a premium, even when used or blem, that puts them out of my range. I would definitely rather have one of the scopes in my narrowed down list with a reticle I want than a NF with a more basic reticle.

I'm really planning on buying my scope around the first week in September, so I will certainly call around to some of the dealers recommended here to see what kind of deals they might have when I get closer to plopping down cash.
 
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Gtscotty said:
I hadn't looked at their Deploy FFP reticles before I read this, but I'd definitely agree. I think I could like the H59, but something more along the lines of the Deploy, DEV- L and the Vortex reticles is more what I'd prefer.
Click to expand...

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you price wise and looking at similar scopes, trying to keep it around 1200 or less. And with all my looking around, I keep coming back to the DMR2, but really dislike those reticle choices. It seems like a no brainer to me for them to offer them in the elite scopes.

I wonder how the Forge is going to be, because I bet it will be well under 1k street. But it lacks the elevation adjustment I want... bringing us full circle to where we started hahaha
 
Niles Coyote said:
I have been using the Razor gen2 on my primary match rifle for the past two years and have been very happy with its performance. Last month I found a deal on a AMG and swapped out the gen2 to save 20oz (between scope and rings used), since then I have used it in one match and two practice sessions and so far have been happy with it. The EBR-7b reticle is awesome and transitioning from the EBR-2c was a piece of cake.
Click to expand...

Which do you prefer? Gen 2 or AMG? I am trying to decide between these. I wish they had the gen 2 with the EBR-7B reticle.
 
I would have sworn that the current Cronus BTR had a locking windage turret, but everything I can find online says that neither turret locks, does anyone know for sure?

If not, it's probably out of the running, the windage turret, for me is only for zeroing. I always hold wind, if I'm going to spend the money to upgrade, I'd like a locking or capped windage turret.
 
Just bought one a little over a month ago, and it does not have a locking turret for windage or elevation.
 
I have a gen 2 and wish it had the 7b.

My previous scope had the dot. The gen 2 has been great but the only minor thing I would change would be the dot instead of the small circle.
 
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