Does anyone have a link to a good list of various object heights, for purposes of mil dot range estimation? For instance:
Ground Hog 10"
Doorway 84"
etc...
Thanks,
Nik
Ground Hog 10"
Doorway 84"
etc...
Thanks,
Nik
- Thread starter NikolaiS
- Start date
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
Vern from Central Virginia Tactical sent me this one a few years ago.
OBJECT SIZE CHART
Note: A large stop sign is 36" if you want to add that info.
I have more pages from various sources I can send you if you PM me your email. I hope to get all this on our website downloads page when I can get some time, we've been extremely busy working with several govt customers. Mark
Vern from Central Virginia Tactical sent me this one a few years ago.
OBJECT SIZE CHART
Note: A large stop sign is 36" if you want to add that info.
I have more pages from various sources I can send you if you PM me your email. I hope to get all this on our website downloads page when I can get some time, we've been extremely busy working with several govt customers. Mark
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
That's a good list. I'm going to do some measurements and add. Maybe we can all contibute one or two objects to this thread, and in the end, people can tailor a list custom to personal preferences.
That's a good list. I'm going to do some measurements and add. Maybe we can all contibute one or two objects to this thread, and in the end, people can tailor a list custom to personal preferences.
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing.
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
U.S. Dollar Bill = 2.61"x6.15"
DVD case = 7.5"x5.375"
12" Ruler = 12"
12oz Coca Cola can = 4.76"x2.375"
regular iPod = 4"x2.375"
I'll add some more stuff later...
U.S. Dollar Bill = 2.61"x6.15"
DVD case = 7.5"x5.375"
12" Ruler = 12"
12oz Coca Cola can = 4.76"x2.375"
regular iPod = 4"x2.375"
I'll add some more stuff later...
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
Some mundane objects:
Standard broom (push or long bristle) = 56"
Shovel = 56"
Pitchfork = 43"
Pitchfork tines = 11" x 9'
paint can 1 gal = 7.5" x 6"
motor oil 1 qt = 9.5" x 4"
machete = 22.5"
soccer ball 8.5"
golf ball 1.5"
more later...
Some mundane objects:
Standard broom (push or long bristle) = 56"
Shovel = 56"
Pitchfork = 43"
Pitchfork tines = 11" x 9'
paint can 1 gal = 7.5" x 6"
motor oil 1 qt = 9.5" x 4"
machete = 22.5"
soccer ball 8.5"
golf ball 1.5"
more later...
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
I did this.
Nothing is consistent.
Auto wheel sizes, curb heights, telephone pole widths, utility vaults, pole mounted transformers, stop signs.... you name it. Measure a dozen of them. Measure them in the next town over. Measure some that are 20 years old. It is a waste of time.
The only 'true' things that you see in every day life in America are construction materials. Windows and doors, concrete blocks,wire mesh (cyclone fencing); while steel roll ups (industrial buildings) have some variance but you can count the panels.
Good luck
I did this.
Nothing is consistent.
Auto wheel sizes, curb heights, telephone pole widths, utility vaults, pole mounted transformers, stop signs.... you name it. Measure a dozen of them. Measure them in the next town over. Measure some that are 20 years old. It is a waste of time.
The only 'true' things that you see in every day life in America are construction materials. Windows and doors, concrete blocks,wire mesh (cyclone fencing); while steel roll ups (industrial buildings) have some variance but you can count the panels.
Good luck
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
I hear ya on consistency, Mo. There is variance in size--perhaps within general parameters--but yes, variance.
One question to answer when choosing objects such as this, is whether that variance is within an acceptable margin of error. The answer might be no.
As I understand it, using a mil dot for rangefinding is intended as an approximation and is also given to a second layer of human error. (Is that stop sign 1.2 or 1.3 mils high?...) It's a tool, not infallible, but still quite cool. One possible technique in mitigating this margin of error is ranging several objects in the same area and noting a trend in estimates. If a "true"-sized object is available, cool.
A "slightly off" object size estimate can translate into significant error downrange, no doubt. Let's say we think a tire is 24" but it's really 26", and we estimate it's 1 mil high. We then reference our Mildot Master and think the tire's 660yds, but it's really 720yds. For my cal, that's about a 15" difference in bullet drop and .4 mil. Good enough? Maybe, maybe not.
That said, here are some tire measurements I took today.
Standard car = 25"
ATV = 24"
motorcycle = 24-26"
Standard Truck/SUV = 29"
Freight Truck = 40"
Nik
I hear ya on consistency, Mo. There is variance in size--perhaps within general parameters--but yes, variance.
One question to answer when choosing objects such as this, is whether that variance is within an acceptable margin of error. The answer might be no.
As I understand it, using a mil dot for rangefinding is intended as an approximation and is also given to a second layer of human error. (Is that stop sign 1.2 or 1.3 mils high?...) It's a tool, not infallible, but still quite cool. One possible technique in mitigating this margin of error is ranging several objects in the same area and noting a trend in estimates. If a "true"-sized object is available, cool.
A "slightly off" object size estimate can translate into significant error downrange, no doubt. Let's say we think a tire is 24" but it's really 26", and we estimate it's 1 mil high. We then reference our Mildot Master and think the tire's 660yds, but it's really 720yds. For my cal, that's about a 15" difference in bullet drop and .4 mil. Good enough? Maybe, maybe not.
That said, here are some tire measurements I took today.
Standard car = 25"
ATV = 24"
motorcycle = 24-26"
Standard Truck/SUV = 29"
Freight Truck = 40"
Nik
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
Here's a few traffic control devices. I would recommend double checking because, as he said above, there's not really a standard.
Stop 30" (Private Drives sometimes use 24" signs)
Stop- Small 24"
Yield 36"
Yield- Small
No Parking 12"x18"
Speed Limit 24"x30"
Do Not Enter 30"
No Motor Vehicles 24"
Do Not Pass 24"x30"
Pass With Care 24"x30"
One Way 12"x36"
Traffic Signal- 3 Light
Traffic Signal- Pedestrian 18x18x9
Street Sign 6"x24"
Traffic Cone- Small 18"-19"
Traffic Cone- Large 28", 36"
Traffic Cone- Bollard 42"
Milepost 1 Digit- Front 14"x18"
Milepost 1 digit- Back 10"x18"
Milepost 2 Digit- Front 14"x27"
Milepost 2 digit- Back 10"x27"
Reflective Post 53"-56"
A-Frame Barricade-Small 38" height unfolded, 40.5" height per side.
Here's a few traffic control devices. I would recommend double checking because, as he said above, there's not really a standard.
Stop 30" (Private Drives sometimes use 24" signs)
Stop- Small 24"
Yield 36"
Yield- Small
No Parking 12"x18"
Speed Limit 24"x30"
Do Not Enter 30"
No Motor Vehicles 24"
Do Not Pass 24"x30"
Pass With Care 24"x30"
One Way 12"x36"
Traffic Signal- 3 Light
Traffic Signal- Pedestrian 18x18x9
Street Sign 6"x24"
Traffic Cone- Small 18"-19"
Traffic Cone- Large 28", 36"
Traffic Cone- Bollard 42"
Milepost 1 Digit- Front 14"x18"
Milepost 1 digit- Back 10"x18"
Milepost 2 Digit- Front 14"x27"
Milepost 2 digit- Back 10"x27"
Reflective Post 53"-56"
A-Frame Barricade-Small 38" height unfolded, 40.5" height per side.
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
great thread!
average size critters, back to belly:
elk 24"
mule deer / sheep 22"
w.tail / med. bear 18"
antelope 14"
turkey / boar 12"
coyote / fox / bobcat / crow 9"
standing
chuck / jack rabbit 18"
cotton tail 12"
man
head and neck 6"w x 10"L
shoulders 17"w
head to crotch 34"L
shoulder to crotch 24"l
great thread!
average size critters, back to belly:
elk 24"
mule deer / sheep 22"
w.tail / med. bear 18"
antelope 14"
turkey / boar 12"
coyote / fox / bobcat / crow 9"
standing
chuck / jack rabbit 18"
cotton tail 12"
man
head and neck 6"w x 10"L
shoulders 17"w
head to crotch 34"L
shoulder to crotch 24"l
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
The best thing I've found is to carry a little 30" or 36" mini tape measure with you. That way you can measure whatever and know the exact. This is import if you in third world countries due to the fact they dont have exact building codes, strange vehicles, block shapes, and weapons. I have found 20" edge of shoulder to edge of shoulder, 36" from belt to top of head, and about 70" for the height of an average man works pretty good... Every time I go out I mil range then laser the target just to keep up on the skills. I am always close enough on my estimation that I would have a hit.
The best thing I've found is to carry a little 30" or 36" mini tape measure with you. That way you can measure whatever and know the exact. This is import if you in third world countries due to the fact they dont have exact building codes, strange vehicles, block shapes, and weapons. I have found 20" edge of shoulder to edge of shoulder, 36" from belt to top of head, and about 70" for the height of an average man works pretty good... Every time I go out I mil range then laser the target just to keep up on the skills. I am always close enough on my estimation that I would have a hit.
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
I don't think you should measure tire sizes. You should go by rim sizes. I can generally tell which size rims are on cars becuase I'm familiar with cars. Tire sizes are different and its hard to tell the actual stop points to measure becuase grass could cover some of the bottom tire etc. At least with the rim you can see the hard line from black rubber to colored rim.
The only problem I've had with rim measuring is if the rim is on an angle to you (like you are seeing it on a 3/4 view) it throws my measurements off. The same with bricks. My building is made of 8" bricks and when looking them at an angle they dont' really measure 8".
I don't think you should measure tire sizes. You should go by rim sizes. I can generally tell which size rims are on cars becuase I'm familiar with cars. Tire sizes are different and its hard to tell the actual stop points to measure becuase grass could cover some of the bottom tire etc. At least with the rim you can see the hard line from black rubber to colored rim.
The only problem I've had with rim measuring is if the rim is on an angle to you (like you are seeing it on a 3/4 view) it throws my measurements off. The same with bricks. My building is made of 8" bricks and when looking them at an angle they dont' really measure 8".
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
Good point on tires. They also deform from the weight of the car.
Nik
Good point on tires. They also deform from the weight of the car.
Nik
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">great thread!
average size critters, back to belly:
elk 24"
mule deer / sheep 22"
w.tail / med. bear 18"
antelope 14"
turkey / boar 12"
coyote / fox / bobcat / crow 9"
standing
chuck / jack rabbit 18"
cotton tail 12"
man
head and neck 6"w x 10"L
shoulders 17"w
head to crotch 34"L
shoulder to crotch 24"l
</div></div>
Now you are giving me dope I can use!
Are there sex differences in back-to-brisket measurements? Seems like a doe would have a shorter back-to-brisket than a buck.
I am not a sniper, but have tried to estimate ranges based on people (rifle sans scope). Head to crotch, head to waist, or torso lengths work a lot better for people than height because while the average human is about 5'8", there is a lot of variance... and most of the variance is in the legs and neck. While head to waist still contains the neck, the neck is a small portion of the overall measurement compared to head-to-toe where legs and neck represent a large portion of that figure.
I would think shoulder width varies quite a bit too, just looking at myself versus the average man, though I have never measured.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">great thread!
average size critters, back to belly:
elk 24"
mule deer / sheep 22"
w.tail / med. bear 18"
antelope 14"
turkey / boar 12"
coyote / fox / bobcat / crow 9"
standing
chuck / jack rabbit 18"
cotton tail 12"
man
head and neck 6"w x 10"L
shoulders 17"w
head to crotch 34"L
shoulder to crotch 24"l
</div></div>
Now you are giving me dope I can use!
Are there sex differences in back-to-brisket measurements? Seems like a doe would have a shorter back-to-brisket than a buck.
I am not a sniper, but have tried to estimate ranges based on people (rifle sans scope). Head to crotch, head to waist, or torso lengths work a lot better for people than height because while the average human is about 5'8", there is a lot of variance... and most of the variance is in the legs and neck. While head to waist still contains the neck, the neck is a small portion of the overall measurement compared to head-to-toe where legs and neck represent a large portion of that figure.
I would think shoulder width varies quite a bit too, just looking at myself versus the average man, though I have never measured.
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
If you search back for a few months there was a list on here that was several pages long.
If you search back for a few months there was a list on here that was several pages long.
Re: mil dot height estimation list?
Good laser range finder and spare batteries = GTG
Good laser range finder and spare batteries = GTG
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