Rifle Scopes Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
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Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
dagger,
Yes, round mildots were glass etched, oval mildots were wire reticles.
Here is a link I found, written in 2001:
The Truth about MilDots
I don't know how "true" it is like a lot of stuff on the Internet; but the source is reported to be Chris Thomas of Premier Reticles; in any event it makes for an interesting read.
Bob
dagger,
Yes, round mildots were glass etched, oval mildots were wire reticles.
Here is a link I found, written in 2001:
The Truth about MilDots
I don't know how "true" it is like a lot of stuff on the Internet; but the source is reported to be Chris Thomas of Premier Reticles; in any event it makes for an interesting read.
Bob
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
football is coming back....the Dallas cowboys built a new stadium to prove it
football is coming back....the Dallas cowboys built a new stadium to prove it
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
....or....Jerry Jones Wax philosophic ....
....or....Jerry Jones Wax philosophic ....
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
I have used round mil-dots, football mil-dots, and mil-lines. Of the three I liked the football style the least and so did most others I was trained with. If they stop being made, I for one will not be disappointed at all.
I have used round mil-dots, football mil-dots, and mil-lines. Of the three I liked the football style the least and so did most others I was trained with. If they stop being made, I for one will not be disappointed at all.
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
The Gen II's .2 Mil dots make it easier to live in the tenths:
Half a dot is .1 Mil; half-Mil hash mark to edge of dot is .4 Mils, then to the center of that dot is .5 Mils.
Now, do that with a hash-mark.
The Gen II's .2 Mil dots make it easier to live in the tenths:
Half a dot is .1 Mil; half-Mil hash mark to edge of dot is .4 Mils, then to the center of that dot is .5 Mils.
Now, do that with a hash-mark.
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
I like the round mil with a hash between to note the .5 mils. I have that with a reticle like the Falcon with short hashes for the .5 and longer hashes for the full mils I can occassionaly have problems using hold over in matches when working against the clock. Every once in a while I will use the wrong hash mark and that will put you off the target trying to hit a plate at 600 plus.
I like the round mil with a hash between to note the .5 mils. I have that with a reticle like the Falcon with short hashes for the .5 and longer hashes for the full mils I can occassionaly have problems using hold over in matches when working against the clock. Every once in a while I will use the wrong hash mark and that will put you off the target trying to hit a plate at 600 plus.
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
I learned on the footballs, so using them is natural for me, but they are definitely antiquated with many better options available today.... I'd take the TMR over the dots anyday now!!
I learned on the footballs, so using them is natural for me, but they are definitely antiquated with many better options available today.... I'd take the TMR over the dots anyday now!!
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
Speaking of which, do any of the steel safari-type competitions prohibit the use of LRFs? Seems like it would be cool. I'm usually against arbitrary restrictions, but I don't know, I think in this case it would add a real element of "knowing your gear" that I'd find pretty appealing.
Speaking of which, do any of the steel safari-type competitions prohibit the use of LRFs? Seems like it would be cool. I'm usually against arbitrary restrictions, but I don't know, I think in this case it would add a real element of "knowing your gear" that I'd find pretty appealing.
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
Prohibiting things is rarely cooler than the alternative. Their use can be addressed through course design. The higher quality courses of fire don't prohibit rangefinder use, but make it impossible to get a correct reading from them.
Prohibiting things is rarely cooler than the alternative. Their use can be addressed through course design. The higher quality courses of fire don't prohibit rangefinder use, but make it impossible to get a correct reading from them.
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
The Allegheny Sniper Challenge prohibits use of lasers.
As Graham says, good course design will permit them, but make the targets difficult to acquire with them. That forces the shooters to think, which is always a good thing, even if they hate doing so.
The Allegheny Sniper Challenge prohibits use of lasers.
As Graham says, good course design will permit them, but make the targets difficult to acquire with them. That forces the shooters to think, which is always a good thing, even if they hate doing so.
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
Haugen's article is seriously dated, and in some instances incorrect.
The Army Leupold M3A was the only scope I know of which used a spacing between dots of anything other than a true 6283-in-360-degrees mil.
And there is a wide variation of dot sizes these days, so you need to check with specific manufacturers on dots sizes.
Round dots, as already noted, make breaking the intervals down easier.
A more up-to-date article on mildot usage is:
http://www.excaliburenterprises.com/scopes/mil-dot.html
Haugen's article is seriously dated, and in some instances incorrect.
The Army Leupold M3A was the only scope I know of which used a spacing between dots of anything other than a true 6283-in-360-degrees mil.
And there is a wide variation of dot sizes these days, so you need to check with specific manufacturers on dots sizes.
Round dots, as already noted, make breaking the intervals down easier.
A more up-to-date article on mildot usage is:
http://www.excaliburenterprises.com/scopes/mil-dot.html
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
So the oval dots that Premier put into fixed MK4's in the past are wire reticles?
Why would you take out an etched reticle and replace it with a wire?
Just curious as my 16X MK4 was sold to me as having had PR install the ovals.....
So the oval dots that Premier put into fixed MK4's in the past are wire reticles?
Why would you take out an etched reticle and replace it with a wire?
Just curious as my 16X MK4 was sold to me as having had PR install the ovals.....
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
Gen II mil dots are very nice to us guys that don't stare through the scope every day. A bit easier to see partial mils instead of guessing what part of a full mil a target is. Hope some of that makes sense. Like how some reticles have 1/10 areas somewhere in the view. More crowded, yes, but for lots easier. Haven't been able to figure into the equation the size of the dot themselves. More training needs to be in the future.
Chad
Gen II mil dots are very nice to us guys that don't stare through the scope every day. A bit easier to see partial mils instead of guessing what part of a full mil a target is. Hope some of that makes sense. Like how some reticles have 1/10 areas somewhere in the view. More crowded, yes, but for lots easier. Haven't been able to figure into the equation the size of the dot themselves. More training needs to be in the future.
Chad
Re: Mildots (Football Vs Round Discussion
What's the dimension of the "short" side of the football mil dot?
Being a guy who started with a vernier micrometer long before messing with calipers, and having read a whole heap of vernier readings on calipers, I'm okay with estimating .1 increments between hash marks.
But I also believe it could be very useful to have .25, .125 and other fractions and tenths available in various parts of the reticle's topology.
Any idea why the Army started out with that .22 mil figure?
What's the dimension of the "short" side of the football mil dot?
Being a guy who started with a vernier micrometer long before messing with calipers, and having read a whole heap of vernier readings on calipers, I'm okay with estimating .1 increments between hash marks.
But I also believe it could be very useful to have .25, .125 and other fractions and tenths available in various parts of the reticle's topology.
Any idea why the Army started out with that .22 mil figure?
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